MP 7,1 New Mac Pro or an iMac every 6 years?

[orph]

I live in the UK and buy from Germany online fairly often so cant see why you cant?
I buy from america and jappan fairly often too, it's super simple with inter EU sales but iv never had a problem yet buying from a good trusted shop like amazon with items from outside the EU.

 

[deconstruct60]

Thanks.
I see here in Greece were are still easily getting screwed.
The 3979 euro machine in Germany, costs 1000 more here in Greece.
I can make a trip to Germany, buy an iMac, stay for a couple of days at a hotel, see the local attractions, and still save money.

I picked Germany because knew the country code to enter on apple's URL. There are other options.
https://www.apple.com/choose-country-region/

Italy probably isn't too much different and they have Apple stores ( and probably other retailers at about the same price). I imagine there is a train + boat combination to there that isn't too bad.

If there is some protectionist kind of mechanism that keeps out Apple Stores ( and normal EU pricing) that kind of defeats the purpose of being in the EU. Not quite as large of a gap but in the USA in some contexts folks buy in another State to get to incrementally better prices for devices.

 

[Trusteft]

I live in the UK and buy from Germany online fairly often so cant see why you cant?
I buy from america and jappan fairly often too, it's super simple with inter EU sales but iv never had a problem yet buying from a good trusted shop like amazon with items from outside the EU.

From where?
[doublepost=1564206014][/doublepost]

I picked Germany because knew the country code to enter on apple's URL. There are other options.
https://www.apple.com/choose-country-region/

Italy probably isn't too much different and they have Apple stores ( and probably other retailers at about the same price). I imagine there is a train + boat combination to there that isn't too bad.

If there is some protectionist kind of mechanism that keeps out Apple Stores ( and normal EU pricing) that kind of defeats the purpose of being in the EU. Not quite as large of a gap but in the USA in some contexts folks buy in another State to get to incrementally better prices for devices.

Apple site/store doesn't allow sales/shipping to other countries, unless you happen to know of a specific apple site which does.

 

[orph]

I tend to use amazon for most my online shopping, kind of trust it.
https://www.amazon.de/
electronics sometimes and odd bits
https://www.amazon.co.jp/
I buy films and cd's, some cool japan only things
are the ones I use the most & sometimes
https://www.amazon.es/
have family out in south EU

 

[jccmaxon]

As others have said, I’d wait to see the price of the mac pro configs then decide. We don’t even know yet what the price of the base system will be in Europe.

I think that it price Will be 6600€ (base system).

 

[AidenShaw]

I think that it price Will be 6600€ (base system).

Is that before or after applying Trump's trade war tariffs?

 

[mikehalloran]

Currently the Mac Pro 2013 is very valid today

Not really.

Although it will run the latest OS, you can’t add eGPU if you want to render your videos faster. For that, you should have a 2017 or later with Thunderbolt 3.

Likewise, the SSD can be upgraded but the 3 x1 PCIe bus cannot realize the speeds that are possible with NVMe 3 x4 blades. For that, you need a 2015. However, the SSD version of the 2017 already has an NVMe 3 x4 blade.

If you’re serious about video and want to save money over the new Mac Pro, consider the iMac Pro. It has a better GPU than what you have now or can add. Plus the cooling is better than the iMac. It’s the machine designed for what you want to do. Some of the BTO versions are as good as the mid-level Mac Pro will be.

Expect a lot of used iMPs to hit the Market as graphics and video pros upgrade to the Mac Pro at the end of the year. Top of the line? No. Run circles around your 2013? Oh yes.

You might still be using it in 6 years... or not. If you save money now, you might be able to justify a Mac Pro in 3 years.

This version of the Mac Pro has been in development for 3 years. It is designed specifically for the film industry. It’s the first gen, entry level version — really. Expect the next versions to go to PCIe 5 or 6 and use some of those new Intel CPUs — or Apple will actually go with the ARM as rumored (in Intel corporate reports!). But when — who knows? There is no point in trying to predict Apple 6 years from now.

 

[deconstruct60]

Not really.

Although it will run the latest OS, you can’t add eGPU if you want to render your videos faster. For that, you should have a 2017 or later with Thunderbolt 3.

Likewise, the SSD can be upgraded but the 3 x1 PCIe bus cannot realize the speeds that are possible with NVMe 3 x4 blades. For that, you need a 2015. However, the SSD version of the 2017 already has an NVMe 3 x4 blade.

3x1 PCIe bus limitation ? x4 NVMe options are available . For example


https://store.mcetech.com/mm/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=PCIESSD-MP13


Technically there are hacks to do eGPU on MP2103 but that being a stable foundation for 6 years is a gamble .

Expect a lot of used iMPs to hit the Market as graphics and video pros upgrade to the Mac Pro at the end of the year. Top of the line? No. Run circles around your 2013? Oh yes.

I think folks are going to be disappointed if expecting some substantially large fire sale of iMac Pros . Those systems generally are not going to become non useful once the new Mac Pro ships. The Mac Pro costs substantially more so there is a significant out of pocket to move that much higher .

Some folks will dump and buy , but outside of the ‘ buy anything new and expensive from Apple ‘ crowd , you are probably not going to see relatively massive numbers . 3+ years after initial iMac Pro sales will see folks on normal upgrade schedules .

Probably won’t be massive firesale on MP 2013 either . The used prices will drop but tracking the drop in the even older and now vintage/obsolete previous MP models .

 

[Parzival]

I think that it price Will be 6600€ (base system).

Lol thats absurd for such a ****** specced computer

 

[mikehalloran]

3x1 PCIe bus limitation ? x4 NVMe options are available . For example

Yes and no.

Although an NVMe 3 x4 blade can be installed and will double the speed compared to the AHCI SSD that was removed, it will hit the one lane bottleneck of the PCIe 3 x1 bus. This is the same as a 2013–14 iMac, 2013–early 15 MacBook Pro and 2013–17 MacBook Air.

An inexpensive, slow blade such as the Intel 660p is fine in these. The extra $ spent on a fast blade such as the 970 EVO is money wasted on the 6.1.

Unlike the other Macs I just listed, the 6.1 has room for a heat sink — use one.

You definitely want to do this if it hasn't been done. A 2TB 660p, Sintech adapter and head sink should run $250–$300 depending where you buy. This is a brain-dead simple installation that takes less than 5 minutes to do.

It doesn't turn the 6.1 into a speed demon but cures the "feels a bit sluggish" well enough. If you've been keeping your active projects on an external because you have the original 256GB AHCI, moving them onto the internal while you work on them will change your life.

There is nothing wrong with keeping these going as long as they get the work done, right?

 

[deconstruct60]

Yes and no.

Although an NVMe 3 x4 blade can be installed and will double the speed compared to the AHCI SSD that was removed, it will hit the one lane bottleneck of the PCIe 3 x1 bus.

Errr, no. PCIe v3 x1 bus limits are 8 Gb/s ( of about 984 MB/s ).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_interface_bit_rates
The Mac Pro SSD is hooked to PCH so it is PCIe v2 x1 which is worse at 5 Gb/s (500MB/s )

Those x4 NVMe drives blow right past that in bandwidth. Those are not on a x1 connection. Even the original MP 2013 drive blow right past that cap. It can't be a x1 link. PCIe v2 x4 is 20Gb/s ( ~2GB/s ) which is enough to do the original and the newer NVMe versions.

It is a x4 link. The 'cap' is more so the SSD controllers and NAND configuration and properties. Plus power and thermal limits. NVMe has some lower latencies and a few other updates to squeeze a bit more out of the link but still v2 x4 is plenty.

The notion that the Mac Pro SSD is capped or throttled doesn't hold water. Apple itself later shipped faster SSDs on the same base infrastructure.

Thread circa 2017
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/new-macpro2013-disk-speed-confirmed.2043315/

This is the same as a 2013–14 iMac, 2013–early 15 MacBook Pro and 2013–17 MacBook Air.

And again all hooked to the PCH and PCIe v2 x4. a x1 link would hobble them down near SATA drive speeds; there is not much point to that by 2013 tech levels. You probably could get limited performance out of the small capacity drives, at that but that wasn't the base connectivity link. (that is more so just low parallelism to the NAND chips. )

At some point in time, a few laptop instances may have been pragmatically capped at PCI-e v2 x2 but x1 speeds is far more likely to be some SATA derivative than a based PCI-e link.

An inexpensive, slow blade such as the Intel 660p is fine in these. The extra $ spent on a fast blade such as the 970 EVO is money wasted on the 6.1.

Apple's blade form factor isn't standard, so off the shelf Intel SSDs aren't an internal option.


P.S. there is a block diagram for the Mac Pro 2013 (6,1) that has been around for ages.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/proper-manual-for-the-new-mac-pro.1768967/#post-19531548

How the SSD is connected is clearly marked there.

 

[mikehalloran]

Errr, no. PCIe v3 x1 bus limits are 8 Gb/s ( of about 984 MB/s ).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_interface_bit_rates
The Mac Pro SSD is hooked to PCH so it is PCIe v2 x1 which is worse at 5 Gb/s (500MB/s )

Those x4 NVMe drives blow right past that in bandwidth. Those are not on a x1 connection. Even the original MP 2013 drive blow right past that cap. It can't be a x1 link. PCIe v2 x4 is 20Gb/s ( ~2GB/s ) which is enough to do the original and the newer NVMe versions.

It is a x4 link. The 'cap' is more so the SSD controllers and NAND configuration and properties. Plus power and thermal limits. NVMe has some lower latencies and a few other updates to squeeze a bit more out of the link but still v2 x4 is plenty.

The notion that the Mac Pro SSD is capped or throttled doesn't hold water. Apple itself later shipped faster SSDs on the same base infrastructure.

Thread circa 2017
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/new-macpro2013-disk-speed-confirmed.2043315/





And again all hooked to the PCH and PCIe v2 x4. a x1 link would hobble them down near SATA drive speeds; there is not much point to that by 2013 tech levels. You probably could get limited performance out of the small capacity drives, at that but that wasn't the base connectivity link. (that is more so just low parallelism to the NAND chips. )

At some point in time, a few laptop instances may have been pragmatically capped at PCI-e v2 x2 but x1 speeds is far more likely to be some SATA derivative than a based PCI-e link.



Apple's blade form factor isn't standard, so off the shelf Intel SSDs aren't an internal option.


P.S. there is a block diagram for the Mac Pro 2013 (6,1) that has been around for ages.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/proper-manual-for-the-new-mac-pro.1768967/#post-19531548

How the SSD is connected is clearly marked there.

Interesting that you think that they can't be done (wrong) and, if done, wouldn't work (wrong) and, if they worked, no one would enjoy any speed benefits (wrong again).

I've been doing these upgrades for years and stand by what I wrote. No one's forcing you to do it.

 

[chfilm]

Thanks.
I see here in Greece were are still easily getting screwed.
The 3979 euro machine in Germany, costs 1000 more here in Greece.
I can make a trip to Germany, buy an iMac, stay for a couple of days at a hotel, see the local attractions, and still save money.
Disgusting.

Here is the site that Apple Greece (joke) sends their customers to https://isquare.gr/store/mac/imac/27-inch-imac-retina-5k-display-3-7ghz-6-core-2tb-fusion-drive.html

They have the same price as other stores here. There is no official Apple store.

Just wow!

 

[apolloa]

I am a Spanish Youtuber and I have always used an Imac Late 2013 for everything. I'm thinking of buying a new one and I have doubts.

I usually edit video in 4k, do streaming. I mainly use Photoshop and FCPX. Playing I usually play on video game consoles.

My question is: Do I buy an Imac i9 2019? Although the GPU is not upgradeable. I feel like I can not update it since I bought it. Do you think that the Mac Pro is a better option in 12 years than two Imacs for the use that I am going to give you as Youtuber?

I'm very Mac and I'm already used to the operating system.

My idea is to buy a Mac Pro of 8 cores (maybe 12 cores) basic to edit in 4k. Then I will expand it in GPU, external disks, etc. Will it be better to buy two Imac for 12 years?

I do not know if you understand my question. I want a Mac that lasts me the most and the new Mac Pro seems the best solution, but for its price and my use the same agrees two Imacs.

Thank you all. I read to you.

I think a Mac Pro is total overkill for you, the majority of people watch You Tube on mobile devices, and not many are or will be 4K. So you really don’t need high end professional equipment to make a video just for You Tubes compression algorithms to compress the quality down.
Don’t go thinking these big You Tube stars need multiple 6K or 8K RED cameras worth over 100 thousand and 30 grand robots to do sweeping shots, for a 10 minute video.
Theirs a guy called Schmee 150 I follow as he’s into his cars and has a collection of modern cars and super cars worth about 2.5 million British pounds, he uses his phone, Sony Action cameras and a Razer laptop and that’s it for making his videos, and he has a management team and gets very exclusive content from super car manufactures and has nearly 1.8 million subscribers.

You do not need very expensive ultra high end equipment the likes of which Hollywood studios use to make massive AAA films to be a successful You Tuber.
I’d say an iMac will be perfectly fine.

The content is FAR more important.

 

[aaronhead14]

Mac Pro 100%. I have personally always disliked the iMac. It has virtually zero customizability (post purchase), and you're forced to use the built-in display. It's always been Apple's least pro-consumer product by far. I have never even considered buying one, ever.

Mac Pro, on the other hand, has pretty much everything I could ask for, aside from NVIDIA support (get on it, Apple!) and a slot for a DVD/Blu-ray drive (still necessary for filmmakers, even in this digital streaming age).

 

[Zdigital2015]

Errr, no. PCIe v3 x1 bus limits are 8 Gb/s ( of about 984 MB/s ).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_interface_bit_rates
The Mac Pro SSD is hooked to PCH so it is PCIe v2 x1 which is worse at 5 Gb/s (500MB/s )

Those x4 NVMe drives blow right past that in bandwidth. Those are not on a x1 connection. Even the original MP 2013 drive blow right past that cap. It can't be a x1 link. PCIe v2 x4 is 20Gb/s ( ~2GB/s ) which is enough to do the original and the newer NVMe versions.

It is a x4 link. The 'cap' is more so the SSD controllers and NAND configuration and properties. Plus power and thermal limits. NVMe has some lower latencies and a few other updates to squeeze a bit more out of the link but still v2 x4 is plenty.

The notion that the Mac Pro SSD is capped or throttled doesn't hold water. Apple itself later shipped faster SSDs on the same base infrastructure.

Thread circa 2017
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/new-macpro2013-disk-speed-confirmed.2043315/





And again all hooked to the PCH and PCIe v2 x4. a x1 link would hobble them down near SATA drive speeds; there is not much point to that by 2013 tech levels. You probably could get limited performance out of the small capacity drives, at that but that wasn't the base connectivity link. (that is more so just low parallelism to the NAND chips. )

At some point in time, a few laptop instances may have been pragmatically capped at PCI-e v2 x2 but x1 speeds is far more likely to be some SATA derivative than a based PCI-e link.



Apple's blade form factor isn't standard, so off the shelf Intel SSDs aren't an internal option.


P.S. there is a block diagram for the Mac Pro 2013 (6,1) that has been around for ages.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/proper-manual-for-the-new-mac-pro.1768967/#post-19531548

How the SSD is connected is clearly marked there.

The 2013 Mac Pro SSD slot is PCIe v2.0 x4 (5GT/s) and blades have been clocked out at a maximum of around 1600MB/s and 130B/s Writes...the 2013 also supports NVMe SSDs, although the PCIe v2 x4 interface limits an NVMe SSD’s potential - https://beetstech.com/blog/apple-proprietary-ssd-ultimate-guide-to-specs-and-upgrades

https://www.anandtech.com/show/7603/mac-pro-review-late-2013/8

My 2015 MacBook Pro SSD slot is PCIe v3 x4 (8GT/s), supports NVMe and blades have been clocked at 3GB/s Read and 2.4GB/s Writes - https://barefeats.com/aura-pro-x2-pcie-based-flash.html

https://barefeats.com/rmbp15.html

Not sure where @mikehalloran is getting some of his info regarding SSD bandwidth in the 2013 Mac Pro or the 2015 15” MacBook Pro...

 

[yurc]

7,1 can give you extra prolonged time at least a decade. 6,1 was great as novelty, but for work and futures I will avoid all the cost unless it offered at very low, actual price of similar X79 system ($500, maybe?)

When 6,1 join obsolete list, even compared with obsolete 5,1 are far superior in terms hardware upgrades (latest GPU, faster NVMe blades with additional carrier board, easier to mod hardware etc except for AVX and other newer CPU instruction, missing security microcode patch etc)

Newer iMac can use TB3 as expansion though, but you should spring additional eGPU enclosure and regular iMac only just have single TB3 controller, you have some bandwidth limitation if connect a bunch TB3 peripherals.

If you already had reference monitor or calibrated trusted display or such, go headless 7,1.
If don’t, go iMac/iMac Pro. Sell it after 3-4 years before it going losing resale value.

 

[lowkey]

I think you are better off with iMacs that can handle what you need to do now, rather than guessing 10 years into the future.

If you keep your machine in good condition you can easily sell it after 4-5 years for about half price. (That’s what late 2014 i7’s are selling for here, so I’m basing it on that).

 

[jccmaxon]

I take note of everything. thank you. I currently use the Avermedia U3 by usb3.0 but if I want 4k. I need a 4k60 video capturer. Does it exist for mac?

 

[apolloa]

I take note of everything. thank you. I currently use the Avermedia U3 by usb3.0 but if I want 4k. I need a 4k60 video capturer. Does it exist for mac?

What do you need to capture? Video games? Direct camera feed?

 

[jccmaxon]

What do you need to capture? Video games? Direct camera feed?

I need to capture video games and use obs for live. if it were possible to export video in fcpx while I'm still capturing but this last only a few days.

 

[apolloa]

I need to capture video games and use obs for live. if it were possible to export video in fcpx while I'm still capturing but this last only a few days.

Hmm in that case I’d say you’d have to get a Mac Pro, unless someone makes a thunderbolt 3 capture box you can use with an iMac? I know you can get PCIE expansion boxes that I believe are Thunderbolt 3, but it won’t be as good performance as plugging a card into the motherboard.

I’m not sure about Mac capture cards, but I’d imagine they are available? I would say get a classic cheesgrater Mac Pro but it’s not going to last anywhere near as long as the new Mac Pro will.

I guess buy the baseline new Mac Pro and a compatible capture card. Maybe that internal HDD caddy that third party manufacture is selling for the new Pro, so you can keep some big storage hard drives internally.

 

[Zdigital2015]

I take note of everything. thank you. I currently use the Avermedia U3 by usb3.0 but if I want 4k. I need a 4k60 video capturer. Does it exist for mac?

https://www.elgato.com/en/gaming/game-capture-4k60pro

The only macOS solution right now is the HD60 S, however the 4K60Pro would simply need a driver from El Gato to work. Whether El Gato wants to go to the trouble of creating a driver for the Mac Pro is anyone’s guess.

Blackmagic Design Hyper Deck Studio can do 4K/30p, but it’s quite expensive.

I suspect there may some other solutions available, or will be soon after the Mac Pro is released.

Also, why do you need to capture 4K/60p? Most game capture devices can output 1080p/60 easily. It just seems like you’re adding another layer of complexity, considering most people are going to top out viewing content at 1080p.

Good luck!

 

[jccmaxon]

https://www.elgato.com/en/gaming/game-capture-4k60pro

The only macOS solution right now is the HD60 S, however the 4K60Pro would simply need a driver from El Gato to work. Whether El Gato wants to go to the trouble of creating a driver for the Mac Pro is anyone’s guess.

Blackmagic Design Hyper Deck Studio can do 4K/30p, but it’s quite expensive.

I suspect there may some other solutions available, or will be soon after the Mac Pro is released.

Also, why do you need to capture 4K/60p? Most game capture devices can output 1080p/60 easily. It just seems like you’re adding another layer of complexity, considering most people are going to top out viewing content at 1080p.

Good luck!

Is it possible Avemernedia 4k pcie in the Mac Pro in bootcamp Windows? Thanks

 

[Snow Tiger]

Similar story for the CPU - in 2-3 years time you'll probably have the chance to upgrade to a better processor from the Xeon 3xxx range - but after that, new Xeons are unlikely to be compatible.

The Cascade Lake Xeon , which Apple is currently using , is absolutely the last processor family that can be installed in the MP7,1 . And it appears only W Xeons are fully compatible . The MP 2019 will never be compatible with Ice Lake or Tiger Lake Xeons , as they utilized a different socket type .