New to Surface Pro 6... Gripes and Questions

[SDColorado]

fair enough. But having trouble playing.mp4 files and opening some jpg images is far from trivial to me! To each his own...
[doublepost=1548955898][/doublepost]

I agree with all this. Since the processor speed improvements are starting to slow down as the A chips mature.. it's going to be a lot harder to convince people to upgrade iPads. They really need os improvements. I'm now in the camp wanting full os/file system access. Especially after using the Surface Pro 6... which I've enjoyed using so far.

Edit: What do I like? First and foremost, having a full os... not a limited os lacking full file system control. Second, ability to install any app. IOS I'm forced to get apps through the app store, so I'm limited to what they want to allow/approve. Third... I'm playing some of the oldie games I used to play long ago but can't on iOS..

I am on the same page with you in liking a FullOS. Also, I think that Apple needs to embrace trackpad/Mouse support. The ASK Keyboard, aside from being a poor typing experience, lacks a trackpad and there is no mouse support. Finger/pencil support is awesome for some tasks, but not for everything.

The App store, as wonderful as it is for a mobile device like the phone or the watch, severely limits the iPad. Many of the programs that I use day in and day out have no iPad equivalents. So while it is nice that the store provides quick access to apps such as YouTube, there is a lot of stuff that just isn't available or is available but has limitations due to the OS or lack of trackpad/mouse support.

Not being anti-Apple, because almost everything I own is Apple, but I think Apple is purposely crippling the iPad to ensure it remains a companion device and not have it cut into Mac sales. If Apple *did* make a Surface-like Mac that included an iPad like a detachable tablet with the full MacOS, ability to install any program available to the Mac, but also able to attach it to a keyboard that had touchpad. I would be interested in that device and would have purchased one. But instead what we have is an insanely fast "idiot savant". Just my .2 as an overall Apple fan

Edit: As for the SSD cards, I really like having that slot as well since I use the MicroSD cards for camera, action cam, Garmin Zumo. I have had good luck with the Sandisk Extreme Pro V30 and Samsung Evo U3 cards.

1. SanDisk Extreme Pro V30

 

[Queen6]

Until Apple changes it stance with IOS the iPad and it's derivative's will firmly remain to be consumption devices for the vast majority. If you just want to "soak up" stuff or very basic computing IPP is fine, if you need to do more the SP6 and it's derivative's shines.

Until sales patterns change nor will Apple as they are highly focused on locking users into their ecosystem, forcing multiple devices to push revenue. For me there's nothing I cant do with my Switch 5 (SP5 clone) that I would do on IPP, equally the IPP is incapable of the opposite as it's crippled by a phone OS.

Software side, it's been said over and over; there's so much good software out there for both Windows and OS X, one simply just needs to look for it. The stores benefit basic users and most of all those that provide them. Apple certainly isn't providing it's stores out of good will, they are a function of business that generates significant revenue for the company.

MicroSD cards, Sandisk & Samsung all problem free Switch 5 has a 256Gb MicroSD Card for media. Apple removed SD cards and added propriety SSD's for one reason to force it's ridiculously priced in-house storage upgrades & Cloud services. Just to play music or HD content one doesn't require an NVME SSD with read speeds exceeding 3K and stratospheric margins Apple has become cheap, greedy & narcissistic, all disguised by a slick marketing machine...

Q-6

 

[derekamoss]

I think the main problem is the iPad and iOS just became the standard experience expected on a tablet. People buy the tablet for consumption and then have it ingrained that anything in a tablet form factor should be the same. I switched to the Surface Pro because I wanted a full desktop OS in a tablet form but a lot of the people who went Mac to Windows just expected that if they bought a Windows Tablet, it would be the same experience not realizing they were getting the windows equivalent of OS X.

As for tablet mode on Windows 10.... It sucks.... ALOT. When I first got my Surface it was running Windows 8 and I see why everyone who wasn't using a touch screen tablet hated it but, it pretty much was the best UI there was and still is IMO. Sometimes I wish I could install Windows 8 on my Surface. I don't know how Microsoft didn't just make Windows 10 tablet mode exactly like Windows 8 and desktop mode just like Windows 10. Honestly someone there had to have said that, I just wish I knew who said no to that and back slap him lol.

 

[Dave245]

As for tablet mode on Windows 10.... It sucks.... ALOT.

I agree with this BIG time! it's one of the reasons i'm switching back to a iPad Pro and Macbook set up. I thought that the tablet experience and tablet mode would be better than that of my iPad Pro, it wasn't, the iPad Pro is the best tablet experience you can get (in my opinion) which then got me thinking, if i'm using a Surface Pro 6, it's meant to be a 2in1, a tablet AND computer but if it doesn't do that well then what's the point.

I'm yet to find any tablet that's as good as the iPad/iPad Pro, the same can be said for the Mac with MacOS, Windows is certainly better than it use to be (remember Vista ) BUT it in my opinion it doesn't even come close to MacOS.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

I agree with this BIG time! it's one of the reasons i'm switching back to a iPad Pro and Macbook set up. I thought that the tablet experience and tablet mode would be better than that of my iPad Pro, it wasn't, the iPad Pro is the best tablet experience you can get (in my opinion) which then got me thinking, if i'm using a Surface Pro 6, it's meant to be a 2in1, a tablet AND computer but if it doesn't do that well then what's the point.

I'm yet to find any tablet that's as good as the iPad/iPad Pro, the same can be said for the Mac with MacOS, Windows is certainly better than it use to be (remember Vista ) BUT it in my opinion it doesn't even come close to MacOS.

I think it depends on what you want. I actually found myself liking the surface in non tablet mode as a tablet. I just disable tablet mode. The iPad though. I don't think I can go back. Files is too limited. No mouse. I just can't do it. I can plop down my surface anywhere and write, edit, etc.,

I feel you though. There isn't anything that is absolutely perfect.

 

[Dave245]

I think it depends on what you want. I actually found myself liking the surface in non tablet mode as a tablet. I just disable tablet mode. The iPad though. I don't think I can go back. Files is too limited. No mouse. I just can't do it. I can plop down my surface anywhere and write, edit, etc.,

I feel you though. There isn't anything that is absolutely perfect.

Yea as a computer it's fine, but i was looking at it as something to replace my iPad Pro and my 2011 Macbook Pro (which died last year), after i wasn't very happy with tablet mode i found myself using my iPad Pro more. I thought what's the point in using both, why not just use the iPad Pro and get a new Macbook. IF the 2in1 side of things had of worked i probably wouldn't be posting this.

As for the iPad Pro, i don't think it will get a full OS but there are new features rumoured for IOS 13 apparently, ones that focus on the iPad along with an updated file system and a redesign of the home screen.

 

[derekamoss]

I agree with this BIG time! it's one of the reasons i'm switching back to a iPad Pro and Macbook set up. I thought that the tablet experience and tablet mode would be better than that of my iPad Pro, it wasn't, the iPad Pro is the best tablet experience you can get (in my opinion) which then got me thinking, if i'm using a Surface Pro 6, it's meant to be a 2in1, a tablet AND computer but if it doesn't do that well then what's the point.

I'm yet to find any tablet that's as good as the iPad/iPad Pro, the same can be said for the Mac with MacOS, Windows is certainly better than it use to be (remember Vista ) BUT it in my opinion it doesn't even come close to MacOS.

Honestly I think iOS sucks a lot as a tablet OS as well. It's great for a phone sized product but isn't really optimized at all for large tablets. I don't ever use tablet mode on Windows 10 and won't till they optimize it as well but I really don't have a problem of using the tablet in desktop mode at all. Windows 8 on a tablet blew iOS out of the water for a tablet experience and as I said I wish they would have kept it and as I said I want a full desktop OS in a tablet form that can also be used as a laptop and a desktop with a dock hooked up to an external monitor keyboard and mouse not to mention adding a Micro SD card to better storage. You can literally buy the lowest Disk space surface which I think is 128gb and for 20 more dollars double that with a Micro SD card Fill that one up, just buy another!. Also Onenote itself and the inking experience of notes which I never thought I would use is a big plus. Ive tried both iPad pro and surface inking and for just normal note taking you cant tell the difference other than One note being AMAZING With the iPad you can never upgrade storage after and pay a huge upcost for more storage. I know longer have to half a separate laptop or desktop and tablet to enjoy everything. In that sense to me iOS on an iPad really is just a blown up mobile UI and not at all a good tablet experience and a pretty bad tablet overall and everything else despite optimization for a tablet experience makes Windows 10 a FAR FAR better tablet experience. As I said this is all just my opinion and not saying for you, the opposite is true. I am really disappointed at apple for not doing more with tablet optimization or touch screen support on any computer device. These are the guys that made touch screen mainstream in the first place! Now I cant ever imagine having a screen that's not touch capable in a computer but at least we have the touchbar! I'm just frustrated apple can't admit they are wrong and just make products that make sense.

 

[Dave245]

Honestly I think iOS sucks a lot as a tablet OS as well. It's great for a phone sized product but isn't really optimized at all for large tablets. I don't ever use tablet mode on Windows 10 and won't till they optimize it as well but I really don't have a problem of using the tablet in desktop mode at all. Windows 8 on a tablet blew iOS out of the water for a tablet experience and as I said I wish they would have kept it and as I said I want a full desktop OS in a tablet form that can also be used as a laptop and a desktop with a dock hooked up to an external monitor keyboard and mouse not to mention adding a Micro SD card to better storage. You can literally buy the lowest Disk space surface which I think is 128gb and for 20 more dollars double that with a Micro SD card Fill that one up, just buy another!. Also Onenote itself and the inking experience of notes which I never thought I would use is a big plus. Ive tried both iPad pro and surface inking and for just normal note taking you cant tell the difference other than One note being AMAZING With the iPad you can never upgrade storage after and pay a huge upcost for more storage. I know longer have to half a separate laptop or desktop and tablet to enjoy everything. In that sense to me iOS on an iPad really is just a blown up mobile UI and not at all a good tablet experience and a pretty bad tablet overall and everything else despite optimization for a tablet experience makes Windows 10 a FAR FAR better tablet experience. As I said this is all just my opinion and not saying for you, the opposite is true. I am really disappointed at apple for not doing more with tablet optimization or touch screen support on any computer device. These are the guys that made touch screen mainstream in the first place! Now I cant ever imagine having a screen that's not touch capable in a computer but at least we have the touchbar! I'm just frustrated apple can't admit they are wrong and just make products that make sense.

I definitely think that IOS needs some work (an overall is rumoured for IOS 13) but I don't think it's a bad tablet OS in any way. I use the iPad Pro for drawing and editing photos in Pixelmator Pro (a really great app) as a hobby. I like the fact that I can use the app on my iPad Pro for on the go or around the house, but when I want to I can also edit within Pixelmator Pro on my iMac.

I think it's probably that I've been spoilt by Apple devices but I just don't get on with Windows, I never really have, even before I owned my first Mac I was using Windows and I hated it (back with Vista and Windows 7). I just think that IOS and MacOS is much more cleaner, refined and better looking.

The iPad has always been a great tablet, even going as far back as when Steve Jobs unveiled it on stage back in 2010. It's a very popular device and often sells more than any other tablet on the market. Obviously that's not a metric to everybody liking it's a case of each to their own. It's just my opinion and I'm sure there are plenty of people who disagree with me

 

[derekamoss]

I definitely think that IOS needs some work (an overall is rumoured for IOS 13) but I don't think it's a bad tablet OS in any way. I use the iPad Pro for drawing and editing photos in Pixelmator Pro (a really great app) as a hobby. I like the fact that I can use the app on my iPad Pro for on the go or around the house, but when I want to I can also edit within Pixelmator Pro on my iMac.

I think it's probably that I've been spoilt by Apple devices but I just don't get on with Windows, I never really have, even before I owned my first Mac I was using Windows and I hated it (back with Vista and Windows 7). I just think that IOS and MacOS is much more cleaner, refined and better looking.

The iPad has always been a great tablet, even going as far back as when Steve Jobs unveiled it on stage back in 2010. It's a very popular device and often sells more than any other tablet on the market. Obviously that's not a metric to everybody liking it's a case of each to their own. It's just my opinion and I'm sure there are plenty of people who disagree with me

As I said, it's my opinion but I will agree that for a lot of other people iPad is the perfect tablet for them. The whole think though is everyone compares iPad to Surfaces and it just doesn't make since. Surfaces aren't comparable to Apple because they have no product that is equivalent. Surface isn't just a tablet, its a full computer in a tablet design (2 in 1) just as Apple has a product that is just a tablet that's optimized for just that and Microsoft has nothing comparable to that either. People cant keep comparing A surface Pro to an iPad because they aren't the same thing at all. And you cant compare a Surface Pro to any Apple laptop either because they are both completely different products, tablet PC vs a laptop. You can't even really compare the iMac to the surface studio either. The only thing that can be is the Surface laptop compared to Apples laptop. That's the only device category they actually have the same. Yet I still here iPad is so much better than a Surface Pro... It just isn't. The iPad is way much better for what it is geared for but realistically the Surface Pro is way much better for what it is geared for. Tim Cook needs to quit saying the iPad can replace a laptop because it just cant. if you are using it for what it's actually supposed to be used for than neither one can compete with the other

 

[SDColorado]

Honestly I think iOS sucks a lot as a tablet OS as well. It's great for a phone sized product but isn't really optimized at all for large tablets.

It really is pretty lousy. While fine for a small mobile device such as a phone, it really cripples the iPad as far as being a real productivity device or a computer replacement. Despite Apple's marketing to the contrary with their "What's a Computer?" All Apple has really done is to define a companion device.

 

[Queen6]

It really is pretty lousy. While fine for a small mobile device such as a phone, it really cripples the iPad as far as being a real productivity device or a computer replacement. Despite Apple's marketing to the contrary with their "What's a Computer?" All Apple has really done is to define a companion device.

"What's a Computer?" not an iPP until Apple present it with a decent OS that can match OS X & W10 etc.

Q-6

 

[OdT22]

It really is pretty lousy. While fine for a small mobile device such as a phone, it really cripples the iPad as far as being a real productivity device or a computer replacement. Despite Apple's marketing to the contrary with their "What's a Computer?" All Apple has really done is to define a companion device.

You're absolutely positively correct, IMO.

I try pretty hard not to bash on products or ideas (other people's optimism), but I have to agree with the above wholeheartedly.

I have bought several copies of the iPad and intentionally overlooked it's limitations for a long time in hope that the 'next' release of iOS would prevail. That's a lot of $$$, and a lot of years on my own dime. So I'll eat crow and try to be a gentleman about it. But the truth is the truth. I spent too much for too little. iPad's are still just a theory without much fruition.

It's cool that we can sign for a UPS package on a PDA type device, and see the tracking information updated across the web instantaneously. Great niche device! But it's still a niche. Same with the iPad. Meanwhile the rest of the world are using computers to run businesses, run a library, run a bank, update their GPS, or run some specific professional software, etc.. Not much of a contest if productivity is the goal.

Tablets are cool and I like the concept. But most of us can be more productive with a real computer. I'm not sure why there's such a rush to change that fact

 

[derekamoss]

This is pretty much how I can sum it up and I will do it in story mode!. Apple has the iPad for a few years and is comfortable and snug. Microsoft made the surface pro, Apple says nobody want's a full pc in a tablet because the original Surface was kinda hefty and we all thinks apple just thinks thinner is better. Apple is at a loss of words when the Surface Brand gains traction because they were told nobody would ever want a stylus, it's the worst thing ever! Apples pride makes it so they cant say they were wrong but had to come up with some type of solution. Instead of putting OS X on a tablet and admitting they were wrong but came up with what they thought was a good plan. a Great plan! We will just add a stylus to an ipad and call the stylus that we said nobody ever wanted a pencil because no one would realize it's just a stylus and put Pro at the end be smug. Microsoft says hey look at this Surface book with touch screen and detachable tablet form. Apple still to prideful says hey, watch this, you can have touch on a MacBook too! in the form of the touch bar! YAY. Problem Solved! Microsoft comes up with a surface studio all in one that the screen can be brought down to write on. So Apple once again says, check this out. We aren't really going to innovate at all but we will put a Pro after the iMac and be all good because people said you don't care about pros no more. In between all that MS says hears all the crap about the MacBook pros keyboard and dongles and dongles and Emojis and smugly said, lets actually make a real laptop! We will call it the Surface Laptop! and both went their separate ways.

 

[SDColorado]

You're absolutely positively correct, IMO.

I try pretty hard not to bash on products or ideas (other people's optimism), but I have to agree with the above wholeheartedly.

I have had several iPads as well, and I kept hoping the next one will be the one. Adding pencil support, upgrades to the OS, this will be the one! Nope. I even went back and forth a couple of times with the 12.7" iPP and Surface Pro 2017. Originally purchasing the iPP, not being happy with it, buying a SP, thinking I missed something, returning the SP for another iPP. Nope, didn't miss anything at all. Returned it again for the SP.

The OS just has too many limitations by design to be anything more than a companion device. Apple *clearly* does not want anyone to purchase the iPP *over* the Mac, they want you to purchase one in *addition* to your Mac. Despite their "What's a Computer?" claim, they still want you to buy the computer.

Tablet sales have been falling for what? 4+ years now? I think the initial enthusiasm of "Hey I can replace all my computers with an iPad" is fading. I had the bug, used to avidly read blogs like The iPad Alone:Living with Apple's iPad and *only* with Apple's iPad. My conclusion is, it is kind of like "Van life." Sure, you can do it... for a while... if you *really* want to. But the novelty wears off.

I won't buy another until there is some serious overhaul and rethinking on its usage and functionality but to each their own

 

[Queen6]

I have had several iPads as well, and I kept hoping the next one will be the one. Adding pencil support, upgrades to the OS, this will be the one! Nope. I even went back and forth a couple of times with the 12.7" iPP and Surface Pro 2017. Originally purchasing the iPP, not being happy with it, buying a SP, thinking I missed something, returning the SP for another iPP. Nope, didn't miss anything at all. Returned it again for the SP.

The OS just has too many limitations by design to be anything more than a companion device. Apple *clearly* does not want anyone to purchase the iPP *over* the Mac, they want you to purchase one in *addition* to your Mac. Despite their "What's a Computer?" claim, they still want you to buy the computer.

Tablet sales have been falling for what? 4+ years now? I think the initial enthusiasm of "Hey I can replace all my computers with an iPad" is fading. I had the bug, used to avidly read blogs like The iPad Alone:Living with Apple's iPad and *only* with Apple's iPad. My conclusion is, it is kind of like "Van life." Sure, you can do it... for a while... if you *really* want to. But the novelty wears off.

I won't buy another until there is some serious overhaul and rethinking on its usage and functionality but to each their own

I bought the original iPad, sadly as much as I wanted it to be what Apple promised, it wasn't. Possible yes to some extent with workarounds. Eventually gave it to my kids Although now improved the situation is much the same, mostly thx to Apple stifling advancement over greed. Today for the vast majority the iPad firmly remains to be a consumption device, crippled by a phone OS

Very far from how I thought it would pan out, and why I no longer purchase Apple's hardware...

Q-6

 

[SDColorado]

I bought the original iPad, sadly as much as I wanted it to be what Apple promised, it wasn't. Possible yes to some extent with workarounds. Eventually gave it to my kids Although now improved the situation is much the same, mostly thx to Apple stifling advancement over greed. Today for the vast majority the iPad firmly remains to be a consumption device, crippled by a phone OS

Very far from how I thought it would pan out, and why I no longer purchase Apple's hardware...

Q-6

When I returned the 12.7" iPP the CS agent at the Apple Store asked why and I explained my reasons and she said "Before you return it, let me have one of our iPad Experts come over to talk to you." I had no idea they even had such a thing. I doubt they do "officially," but my guess is that they were getting a *lot* of returns so designate someone to "Applesplain it to you."

Anyway the so-called "iPad Expert" came over and I once again went through my explanation and she said "Oh that's simple, let me show you how I do that on the iPad." The number of steps was ridiculous. I nodded politely while thining "are you for real?" and still insisted on my intention to return the device

 

[SteveJUAE]

I was trying to bottom out what this "Tablet experience" really means as if its a real defining factor and has a true tangible constant that we all understand.

My conclusion and bottom line is it's just a catch phrase a sweep all blanket statement that's meant to cover a multitude of things under a common premise or understanding that tablet has some special experience attached to it

I think for most of us we are victims of clever marketing somehow we have all been led down the garden path of believing we have been missing out only having a smart phone or a laptop. We have bought in to the marketing that mobile OS Tablets are a better where the reality is different.

Don't get me wrong I think the form factor is great just the execution is crap.

Like yourselves I have bought many tablets and each time left wanting until I buy another one, then rinse and repeat with another >$500 beer coaster or nightstand clock

There is no doubt tablets have had a massive impact on millions as they are fun and encouraged many in vast range of aspects and continue to do so

However I think they are fundamentally flawed as they are just extensions of our phone OS's.

I believe OEMs are running us down a dead end road and continue to do so with bigger faster shinny and even more expensive options on tablets to keep some momentum

Many are content in this current Tablet bubble yet many more are not they have had their day and now are a blocking point

I'm not saying W10 has got it right but it is evolving and can be scaled in both directions, is not hardware or software limited and is a victim of UI critique. It may be lacking in number of little apps that are more common on mobile OS's but not essential with a full OS. These little apps are more of a familiarity and convenience than a necessity to duplicate or mimic your phone format and a legacy habit in many cases.

MacOS/IOS are both in the doldrums of development IMO with a heavy focus on IOS stagnating MacOS along with a refusal to go anywhere near touch orientation. IOS due to its constraints and refusal to go TP or mouse and dumb down or lack of mainstream programs and even poor KB's.

Apple have an ideal opportunity to morph MacOS in to something extraordinary that engulfs IOS and takes laptops and tablets with it in to the future and more than just clam-shell designs. Leave mobile OS where they belong in the sub 6-8" screen format and take tablet and laptops to new levels which excite.