News Outlet Reviewed an ARM Mac Mini Despite NDA

[Takuro]

So among all the news of Geekbench scores, one site took things a little too far and did an unboxing of the ARM-based Mac Mini.

In a somewhat trashy move, AppleInsider apparently got their hands on one and claimed that the NDA "literally does not apply to us" because they didn't sign it themselves. They ended up fighting a little with users in the comments section who thought it was a morally low thing to do, including people voicing concerns that Apple might put restrictions on future DTK allocations.

They also posted a very rushed YouTube video that looked like it was shot against somebody's basement wall showcasing nothing of real interest beyond what we already knew -- that the back of the ARM-based Mini has HDMI, 2x USB 3.1, and 2x USB 3.0. Then they booted it and showed a Geekbench score very similar to what we've already seen posted on other sites.

I won't link the cached article or a copy of the video since it's truly not worth it, but I have to say, I lost some respect for them. It felt kind of sad to see the special message Apple had written in the box in hopes it would be seen by an actual developer who'd be using the DTK the way it was meant to be, saying they would help change the future of the Mac.

 

[ruslan120]

Agreed 100%. Low quality video and “this is why we don’t have nice things.”

I still think Apple will continue to publicize future DTKs, just to assuage any concerns over transitions.

 

[verticalines]

I don't understand the corporate apologists. Everyone's curious about this because Apple's decision has very real ramifications on the future of the platform. Consumers don't care but if you're a developer or professional user, it does matter whether these machines are worth vesting in or it's just another Apple thing done for their own benefit.

This is Apple's own messaging problem blowing back in their face. Developers aren't stupid people unable to poke and prod into the internals. Even regular users aren't stupid and can tell the difference between early hardware and final release.

If Apple wants to make big bold announcements and then go NDA then some developers will certainly seek to provide the rest of us the reality of the platform as is now and later. It's not a deep moral conundrum, devote that energy and outrage elsewhere. When a company keeps everyone but a select few in the dark, what are the rest supposed to do? Just assume Apple is capable of making good decisions, always? Save up and hope for the best?

More transparency never truly hurts. They work in a freaking glass donut. I can't believe this is the state of things now.

 

[pldelisle]

Wanna see geekbench score ?

Go check iPad Pro’s 2020 score.

?‍♂️?‍♂️

 

[ruslan120]

Wanna see geekbench score ?

Go check iPad Pro’s 2020 score.

?‍♂️?‍♂️

I agree that it’s not a big deal to see the performance of the DTK but one could argue that the “value” here is a glimpse of how well x86 emulation works. I believe they ran the x86 GeekBench on the ARM platform.
[automerge]1593483622[/automerge]
Why they didn’t run Cinebench or measure power consumption is beyond me. That would have at least made it interesting.

(Glimpses at sustained performance + performance per watt)
[automerge]1593483729[/automerge]
They took the video down.

 

[Takuro]

Developers aren't stupid people unable to poke and prod into the internals. Even regular users aren't stupid and can tell the difference between early hardware and final release.

Well, you'd first need to quantify what a "regular user" is. If it's the people who would've saw the video that was posted, you're overestimating the knowledge of the average YouTuber. Some people would definitely complain about a product that's never meant to see the light of day in any consumer capacity.

I normally don't care about the deluge of iPhone hardware leaks and whatnot, but this was a instance of Apple giving people a glimpse of what was to come with some level of trust. We're less than 6 months out from consumer hardware shipping, and there's really nothing of interest to learn here other than how they managed to stuff an iPad Pro in a Mac Mini enclosure.

And for that latter aspect, if it is inevitable to satiate curiosities, I'd be happier to some degree if that was kept on hobbyist forums and not broadcast via mainstream media like Apple Insider tried to do. It's a cash grab on their side to be the first to violate an NDA, plain and simple.

 

[DeanL]

LOL this is ridiculous. This is a corporation.
Being sad over the "special message Apple had written in the box" is just... Too much for me but if you want to get sad over a computer from a legal person, then you do you.
But also please realise that. Lot of people break Apple's NDAs, and Apple are well aware. When iOS betas come out, even in the public beta program, screenshot and discussing the software outside of Apple's forum is formally prohibited but everyone still does.
Let's not pretend Apple didn't know people would tear it down and review it.
This is literally a rumours website dedicated to things that leak.

 

[cmaier]

LOL this is ridiculous. This is a corporation.
Being sad over the "special message Apple had written in the box" is just... Too much for me but if you want to get sad over a computer from a legal person, then you do you.
But also please realise that. Lot of people break Apple's NDAs, and Apple are well aware. When iOS betas come out, even in the public beta program, screenshot and discussing the software outside of Apple's forum is formally prohibited but everyone still does.
Let's not pretend Apple didn't know people would tear it down and review it.
This is literally a rumours website dedicated to things that leak.

This is why we can’t have nice stuff.

 

[psingh01]

This is not a big deal. The dtk is nothing special. It’s just a box for developers to test software with. It will be slower than even the slowest arm Mac. It’s bare bones and in the best case scenario, everything will run exactly like on your intel Mac.

 

[leman]

I normally don't care about the deluge of iPhone hardware leaks and whatnot, but this was a instance of Apple giving people a glimpse of what was to come with some level of trust. We're less than 6 months out from consumer hardware shipping, and there's really nothing of interest to learn here other than how they managed to stuff an iPad Pro in a Mac Mini enclosure.

I think there are two sides to the story. On one hand, I can't imagine that Apple is not aware of the possibility that people will dismantle, review and benchmark the DTK. Which is probably the main reason they made it a bare-bones unit with an under clocked iPad SOC (which I assume might even be from a factory reject bunch). They are probably confident enough in the performance of the actual upcoming hardware to shrug off some "less flattering" benchmarks (even though the benchmarks are not bad at all). There will be some discussion here and there but most people probably have enough critical thinking to accept that the DTK and the final ARM Mac are not the same thing.

On the other hand, they have to pursue those who break the NDA because of obvious reasons. There will be some tears and complains, but it will expose some partners who don't take trust seriously. I'm disappointed in AppleInsider. What they did is not to the benefit of the community.

 

[DG128k]

re "This is why we can't have nice things" I like the idea that Apple are sending DTKs out because they're kindly Geppetto-like toymakers, rather than a rapacious global megacorporation needing pliant devs onboard to avoid an Apple Maps-scale disaster

 

[cmaier]

re "This is why we can't have nice things" I like the idea that Apple are sending DTKs out because they're kindly Geppetto-like toymakers, rather than a rapacious global megacorporation needing pliant devs onboard to avoid an Apple Maps-scale disaster

If people would keep their pie holes shut, the DTKs might be machines that actually reflect real performance of what would be sold. If Apple could trust developers to obey their NDAs, they could disclose more to developers. Not rocket science.

 

[DG128k]

I think you missed the point but ok, thanks for sharing

 

[KPOM]

The larger issue to me is that it isn’t even newsworthy. The only potentially useful information was the impact of Rosetta, but the GeekBench scores had already leaked. Nothing else is relevant about the DTK since it is clear that it is not going to resemble any shipping Mac, just as the DTK in 2005 didn’t resemble any actual shipping Intel Mac. For competitive reasons Apple is not going to ship a DTK that remotely resembles an actual future product.

 

[jdb8167]

I just checked and it isn't on their site. Any idea why they pulled it if the NDA didn't apply to them?

 

[KPOM]

I just checked and it isn't on their site. Any idea why they pulled it if the NDA didn't apply to them?

My guess is that they got a threatening note from an Apple attorney.

 

[endlessike]

My guess is that they got a threatening note from an Apple attorney.

If they didn’t sign an NDA what’s the claim? If I find a kit in the trash Apple might be the legal owner of the property, but they can’t stop me from talking about it.

I would hope that we’re not so far down the kool aid drinking rabbit hole that we are approving of totally spurious lawsuits by megacorporations to silence speech they don’t like.
[automerge]1593559940[/automerge]

If Apple could trust developers to obey their NDAs, they could disclose more to developers. Not rocket science.

Would never ever happen not matter how perfect a track record developers had, because it only takes one leak.

 

[KPOM]

If they didn’t sign an NDA what’s the claim? If I find a kit in the trash Apple might be the legal owner of the property, but they can’t stop me from talking about it.

I would hope that we’re not so far down the kool aid drinking rabbit hole that we are approving of totally spurious lawsuits by megacorporations to silence speech they don’t like.
[automerge]1593559940[/automerge]


Would never ever happen not matter how perfect a track record developers had, because it only takes one leak.

The DTK agreement is clear that it doesn’t transfer ownership of the device or any IP to the developer. Unless AI was an “authorized developer” of the original applicant (in which case they are bound by the agreement even if they didn’t sign it), then technically they are in possession of property for which they have no legal title or other authorized possession.

 

[endlessike]

The DTK agreement is clear that it doesn’t transfer ownership of the device or any IP to the developer. Unless AI was an “authorized developer” of the original applicant (in which case they are bound by the agreement even if they didn’t sign it), then technically they are in possession of property for which they have no legal title or other authorized possession.

Right, I already said that. Doesn’t mean I can’t talk about it just because I don’t have legal title to it.

 

[KPOM]

Right, I already said that. Doesn’t mean I can’t talk about it just because I don’t have legal title to it.

They could pursue damages for theft of intellectual property, etc.

 

[Erehy Dobon]

We're less than 6 months out from consumer hardware shipping, and there's really nothing of interest to learn here other than how they managed to stuff an iPad Pro in a Mac Mini enclosure.

If that's the case, then there's really nothing of interest at all in this exercise.

The majority of the bulk in iPhones and iPads comes from the display and the battery. The Mac mini enclosure has neither.

The Mac mini logic board hosted a much larger CPU and included the T2 Security Chip to provide some of the functionality that would be present in an A12-whatever SoC.

"Stuffing" [sic] the iPad Pro's circuitry into the Mac mini -- a much larger device -- was pretty basic, not interesting at all.

 

[cmaier]

If that's the case, then there's really nothing of interest at all in this exercise.

The majority of the bulk in iPhones and iPads comes from the display and the battery. The Mac mini enclosure has neither.

The Mac mini logic board hosted a much larger CPU and included the T2 Security Chip to provide some of the functionality that would be present in an A12-whatever SoC.

"Stuffing" [sic] the iPad Pro's circuitry into the Mac mini -- a much larger device -- was pretty basic, not interesting at all.

Tell that to the poor grunt in Cupertino who had to lay out the traces on the new main board.

 

[Spungoflex]

I saw a video on YouTube where they did a geekbench test made for x86 chips, using Rosetta. Completely pointless and stupid. The results have no validity at all.

 

[Janichsan]

I saw a video on YouTube where they did a geekbench test made for x86 chips, using Rosetta. Completely pointless and stupid. The results have no validity at all.

They show how well Rosetta performs.

 

[Waragainstsleep]

I don't understand the corporate apologists. Everyone's curious about this because Apple's decision has very real ramifications on the future of the platform. Consumers don't care but if you're a developer or professional user, it does matter whether these machines are worth vesting in or it's just another Apple thing done for their own benefit.

This is Apple's own messaging problem blowing back in their face. Developers aren't stupid people unable to poke and prod into the internals. Even regular users aren't stupid and can tell the difference between early hardware and final release.

If Apple wants to make big bold announcements and then go NDA then some developers will certainly seek to provide the rest of us the reality of the platform as is now and later. It's not a deep moral conundrum, devote that energy and outrage elsewhere. When a company keeps everyone but a select few in the dark, what are the rest supposed to do? Just assume Apple is capable of making good decisions, always? Save up and hope for the best?

More transparency never truly hurts. They work in a freaking glass donut. I can't believe this is the state of things now.

Secrecy for Apple is mostly a marketing trick when it comes to things like this. What exactly is it you think someone who can't afford $600 worth of developer account and DTK needs to know so desperately anyway? They told us what chip is in it and how much RAM it has.

Most of the really secret R&D isn't done in the glass donut btw. They have one super secret design lab in San Francisco and heaven knows how many others in various places.