Next Apple Silicon Desktop CPUs

[hugodrax]

I could see 4x memory at 32gb with 120gb/s. UMA Shared BW, 8 performance core, 16 GPU core 4x efficiency processor.

Mac Pros will probably use CPU/Memory module units where you can add more modules on a super high speed low latency hyper transport bus like those used in Cray MPPA computers. so each module you add doubles core and performance.

You will see 5th generation type computing (MPPA Superdesktops) I could only imagine 2 years from now the huge jump in power that will be on the desktop.

Massively parallel processor array - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[TheMadBrewer]

agreed! I was pretty set to buy a 2020 27” iMac, but with the insane performance of the M1 for the class I have now paused. I am really interested in what Apple does for iMac / mid-market desktops. Are we thinking these wave 2 Macs are going to be early or late 2021?

I was due to replace my iMac this fall but this years version just didn't excite me. I'm thinking the new Mini might be worthwhile as a stopgap until the Apple Silicon iMacs come out.

I am also intrigued by something I read -- the M1 Mini has lots of empty space so it might be possible to do a "Nano Mac" in an Apple TV form factor. A real low(er) cost entry model that would be fine for situations where most everything is in a cloud. Probably need to add a network adapter if they were to go after the business market.

 

[Erehy Dobon]

Many people say that we could expect the next Desktop CPU to be 8 or 12 performance cores and 4 efficiency cores, but what would be the point of an efficiency core in a Desktop CPU. Isn't it better to just have all performance cores?

Nah, this goes back to Johny Srouji's June WWDC appearance where he repeatedly pounded the performance-per-watt emphasis.

You don't need a high-performance core to read e-mail, add an entry to your calendar, etc.

During the M1 launch, one of the Apple presenters (Federighi? Srouji?) mentioned that the efficiency core runs at one-tenth the power as the performance core. That's how the M1 MacBook Air and M1 MacBook Pro get unmatched battery performance.

Another M1 launch presenter said that the greenest power is the power you don't use.

 

[Fomalhaut]

Many people say that we could expect the next Desktop CPU to be 8 or 12 performance cores and 4 efficiency cores, but what would be the point of an efficiency core in a Desktop CPU. Isn't it better to just have all performance cores?

Efficiency cores are still relevant in desktops because they keep overall power consumption and heat generation down. A computer has hundreds if not thousands of parallel processes running, most of which require very little CPU power, but have to be scheduled onto CPU cores. Running these on low-powered cores is much more electrically and thermally efficient and allow more power "budget" for the performance cores.

Using larger, more power-hungry cores for menial tasks would mean they were underutilized but still consume significant power

 

[leman]

You don't need a high-performance core to read e-mail, add an entry to your calendar, etc.

Just to nitpick: these are exactly the interactions were you need high-performance cores. UI has to be responsive and it has to deliver fast and smooth results.

Where efficiency cores play a huge roll are the lower priority background tasks such as email fetching, backups, calendar synchronization etc... firing those up on main cores costs a lot of energy and it's not important that they are done as quickly as possible.

 

[T'hain Esh Kelch]

Next step will most likely be 8 performance cores and 4 efficiency cores, which will be more than enough for consumer level desktop applications.

Since this is Apple, I don't think they will go there immediately, if for a long while.

If they can increase the impressive IPC increase each year, and add other features on top, I don't see a need for going more cores, as they will easily beat Intel at their own game. On top, adding 50% more cores will surely affect the amount of heat produced, and for the passively cooled MBA, I don't think the machine can handle that. Perhaps the MBP/Mac Mini could, but I would be surprised if Apple went for such a big speed increase all at once - They also have to sell you machines next year.

 

[leman]

Since this is Apple, I don't think they will go there immediately, if for a long while.

If they can increase the impressive IPC increase each year, and add other features on top, I don't see a need for going more cores, as they will easily beat Intel at their own game. On top, adding 50% more cores will surely affect the amount of heat produced, and for the passively cooled MBA, I don't think the machine can handle that. Perhaps the MBP/Mac Mini could, but I would be surprised if Apple went for such a big speed increase all at once - They also have to sell you machines next year.

I mean 8 performance cores for the higher-end Mac laptops and desktops. The Air will stay on quad-core for a while, there is no reason for it to have any more.

 

[T'hain Esh Kelch]

I mean 8 performance cores for the higher-end Mac laptops and desktops. The Air will stay on quad-core for a while, there is no reason for it to have any more.

Ah, in that case we agree!

 

[thenewperson]

Just to nitpick: these are exactly the interactions were you need high-performance cores. UI has to be responsive and it has to deliver fast and smooth results.

Indeed. User-initiated tasks will likely always fall to the performance cores.

 

[Yebubbleman]

Hi! I'm really excited about the new M1 chip and I think so far it's been a very good decision from Apple to move away from Intel.
But I think it's going to be key for the transition to offer really outstanding desktop CPUs.
What kind of CPUs you think we should expect for the next desktops? Mac Mini, iMac and Mac Pro.
Do you think Apple may release 8-core and 16-core variants of the M1 with just performance cores? If so we can expect 8 x 1,500 = 12,000 or 16 x 1,500 = 24,000 Geekbench scores approximately, which would be awesome.
I think if Apple does this they may bring a complete revolution in the computer market and really high-end software may even migrate to Apple.
What do you guys think we could expect?
Thanks!

If I had to guess, I'd say you might see 12 or 16 core for desktop (if 16, then 8 performance cores and 8 efficiency; unsure as to how it'd be split if 12) with an 8-12 core GPU (I'm thinking they'll probably stick with 8 core, but they'll be faster/better). A vague guess, but that's my guess.

For the Mac Pro and/or iMac Pro (if there is to still be an iMac Pro in the lineup at all), I'd imagine it'd be a bit beefier; likely within the ballpark of the Mac Pro and iMac Pro's current core counts, but not exceeding it. I'd wager that the power supplies stay the same, but that more accoutrements are possible (such as more storage and/or graphics options). My predictions are intentionally vague here though because I legitimately don't know how they're going to scale up what they have with M1 right now.

 

[leman]

If I had to guess, I'd say you might see 12 or 16 core for desktop (if 16, then 8 performance cores and 8 efficiency; unsure as to how it'd be split if 12) with an 8-12 core GPU (I'm thinking they'll probably stick with 8 core, but they'll be faster/better). A vague guess, but that's my guess.

I don't think we will see more than 4 efficiency cores. Larger computers don't need to do more background tasks, but they do need more performance. So my bet goes to 8/12 performance cores and 4 efficiency cores.

For the GPU, scaling up the cores is going to be significantly simpler than trying to make faster cores. Apple's GPU design so far seems to work ver well and I hope we will see 16, 24 and 32 core GPU clusters soon.

 

[cgsnipinva]

Hi! I'm really excited about the new M1 chip and I think so far it's been a very good decision from Apple to move away from Intel.
But I think it's going to be key for the transition to offer really outstanding desktop CPUs.
What kind of CPUs you think we should expect for the next desktops? Mac Mini, iMac and Mac Pro.
Do you think Apple may release 8-core and 16-core variants of the M1 with just performance cores? If so we can expect 8 x 1,500 = 12,000 or 16 x 1,500 = 24,000 Geekbench scores approximately, which would be awesome.
I think if Apple does this they may bring a complete revolution in the computer market and really high-end software may even migrate to Apple.
What do you guys think we could expect?
Thanks!

I think your observation is spot on. Apple is preparing a desktop specific processor. As others have mentioned, Apple will bump up the number of cores and offer more RAM. Improvements to the iGPU will probably have to wait for the second generation as that takes time to design, engineer, and produce.

I could see a 12 core (8 fire/4 ice) as others have stated and baseline RAM at 16, with options ranging from 32GB to 64GB. Possibly increase the GPU cores to offer more performance. However, I see that as less likely.

 

[leman]

I could see a 12 core (8 fire/4 ice) as others have stated and baseline RAM at 16, with options ranging from 32GB to 64GB. Possibly increase the GPU cores to offer more performance. However, I see that as less likely.

There is no way that Apple will ship new 16" and desktop Macs with slower GPUs than their Intel counterparts. The GPU will be most certainly scaled up, to 16 or more cores.

 

[vladi]

GPU remains the biggest misery but considerings Apples habit of never offering high end GPUs you never know.

 

[neinjohn]

Question: Would adding a third "tier" of CPU cores on 12-core Soc, and a fourth tier on a 16-core CPU, make sense for software perfomance per watt, production, integration?

Something like a 12-core would be:

4 efficient cores Icestorm (same cores as the M1)

4 performance cores Firestorm (the same as the M1 but maybe lower wattage/clock)

4 new perfomance cores, some variation of the Firestorm for a higher thermal space, more bandwidth or the new cores meant for the A15 (keep wattage/heat very controlled)

I assume that beyond the higher single-core and you can be more flexible to where the power and memory pool is used (?) as to use the lower Firestorm when you need max load on GPU/NE but lower stress on the CPU side (when multi-threaded) or you have the improved core if single-thread. May help keeping the CPU side of the SoC on check and ramp up on core count for the GPU.