I moved away from Sony because of the price of their native lenses - and the relentless non-stop annual new shiny upgrade in order to get continued support for firmware issues.
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Nikon in trouble?
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I moved away from Sony because of the price of their native lenses - and the relentless non-stop annual new shiny upgrade in order to get continued support for firmware issues.
I only have one native Z-Mount lens - the 24-70 f4. The rest of my lenses work flawlessly and are F-Mount. All bought because they are cheap compared to the same in Z mount and the negligible difference in size of the lenses when compared to the mirrorless versions isn't a big enough issue for me. The lenses are plenty good enough to outperform my skills and all with prices in the mid to high 3 digits as opposed to the trend right now for most of the desirable lenses being 2500 £/$/€ and up.
85mm f1.8, 70-200mm f2.8 VR2, 200-500mm f5.6, 105mm f2.8 macro, 50mm f1.8
Yes now there is but I shot Sony A7 series up to the A7R2 generation so a while ago. Where possible I prefer same manufacturer for lens and body thus giving them no wriggle room on bad copies and back then we were limited for native options. I know it has changed now but so has my view of them - of course I am not an expert, YMMV.
I understand but when I shot Sony, there was only the 24-70 f2.8 G Master and a couple of Zeiss Touits at that time. We were also in the "sony battery life sucks" generation.
So having moved to mirrorless at that time, £2,500 for a 24-70mm was to me, daft when I could get the equivalent on a Fuji system for £800 which by all accounts was as good. That and I was filling out my Leica lens back catalogue and felt that was money better spent caveat :- at the time. Also I was a bit miffed at how fast I was chewing through storage with the images I was taking - quantity not quality. Now I do less quantity, same lack of quality and I have accepted storage consumption lol... back then it rubbed a bit.
Also, back then, Sony was also predominantly seen as an electronics company not a camera company. Yeah yeah Minolta etc... I get it but they weren't the threat they are to Canikon that we see today, not yet the photography kingpins they have become.
I am not doubting the quality or what they have achieved, I just didn't see them as being serious and so wasn't ready to invest too heavily in them - says the person with a Nikon arsenal now.
Now, disclosure time, I do still have 3 RX100s which I still love so I am not completely Sony free...
I think we need to consider that the FTZ adapter is a Nikon adapter for a Nikon camera to fit Nikon lenses. We arent talking about a Metabones 1 on an A7R that needed two weeks written notice to focus on anything. Nikon are able to integrate the three components together and make them work, the same as canon with their RF. in the case of Metabones, they had to reverse engineer the logic and connections between the Sony body and Canon lenses to talk to the camera or in the case of M lenses (as amazing as they are) they are on a dumb adapter with no communication at all.
The FTZ has been implemented very well and counters the glide path as the lens line-up fills out issue (remember the A7 had 3 lenses at release and the hubbub about a 55mm f1.8 costing £800 was hilarious... Leica Apo-Summicron anyone? ). I can't help but suggest compromise is not the right phrase. It is most definitely optimise in my mind. I have used the adapted 3rd party lenses including M to L mount on Leica, I have used all manner of M42, FX, LTM39, M, FD to E, M, FX, M, L and the FTZ is the best and most transparent adapter solution I have used with no image issues. The FTZ is a non issue in comparison.
Also, Canon has always been known for the quality of it's lenses, that didn't stop because they released RF mount. Their EF glass is still amazing as is Nikons offerings. I would have loved to use the 100-400 canon on my sony back then but it was just comedy bad and a definite compromise.
The issue is that of timing. I think if Nikon had released a Z series around the turning of the A7R2 to R3 generation, instead of that J1 nonsense, or definitely on or around the A7mk3, then we could be seeing a very different picture today. For me the A7mk3 was the point where the market most definitely started taking Sony seriously and accepted that Minolta lived on and that they hadnt killed it.
At the end of the day, all of them take plenty good enough images and we use what we have. If I was coming in fresh to the hobby now would I go Nikon Z or Canon RF? probably not, I would likely go Sony but meh... we are where we are and everyone is different....
No flaming me now ya hear.... you know I am right....
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I think this is key.
Nikon, AFAIK, has never released the full electrical/electronic specs of the F mount. Back in the days of the F mount being all mechanical, a few measurements would let someone wanting to reverse engineer produce a fully compatible lens.
One of the reasons the Sigma dock to update firmware exists is because it's not unusual for a new body or even firmware update on a current body to "brick" a 3rd party lens, or at least kill some functionality.
Meanwhile, it amazes me that even if an old body can't actually operate all the functions of something like a 70-200mm f/2.8E FL, if you stick it on an F4 or N8008, it keeps trucking along within the functions it has. Even these first generation AF cameras will realize that they can't change E lenses from their maximum aperture, and also won't let you select anything other than P or S mode with a G lens. AF works just fine on everything but AI-P on an F4. VR doesn't work, but that's okay-it just doesn't turn on. The only sort of "quirk" I know of is if you put a VR lens on something like a Pronia 6i, VR activates but doesn't do anything and instead drains the batter, but stick it on an F5 or F100 and you get full VR functionality.
By contrast, the last time I put a "good" 3rd party lens, a Tamron 35mm f/1.8 on my F4, I was afraid the camera was about to have a stroke. If you stick a Nikon G lens on an F4 and have the mode dial set to A or M, the camera will go to S(P works fine also). With the Tamron, the F4 jumped between A and M randomly and several other settings jittered around. I kept hearing the stabilization system(VC?) cycle on and off, and could see the image "jittering" in the viewfinder. I was afraid it was going to break something if I left it on. The lens did work fine on my F100 and F6, but I seem to recall the F5 not liking something about it.
IMO, you can't really hold Nikon responsible for 3rd party lenses not working on the FTZ.
The Nikon moderator on Photo.net did report that his 28-70mm f/2.8 AF-S killed two FTZs in a row the first time he mounted it, but apparently that's a known problem with some examples of that lens(and other early AF-S lenses like the 300mm f/4) and I THINK Nikon has a fix for the lens. I think it was also just a blown fuse in the FTZ that Nikon could fix easily.
Yes, timing is everything. Certainly we're seeing that in today's camera market. If Nikon hadn't dawdled around about getting seriously into the mirrorless field, things well could have been different. As a consumer, my timing was pretty good, as I was starting to think about mirrorless full-frame around the time Sony was really coming into its own. I already had used a NEX 7 a while back, plus had the excellent RX100 series and also the even more excellent RX10 IV so had a pretty good idea of the quality of lenses and gear that one could expect from Sony. I was at the stage of mulling over the A7R III versus the A7 III when lo and behold, along came the A7R IV, so of course I went with that one, and I dearly love it!
At the time Nikon first released the Z series and lenses along with the FTZ, I read their assurance that consumers could use all their older legacy lenses with the FTZ.....and then very soon found that in reality that was not at all the case and that there also was the additional "gotcha" in that while some older AF lenses could, yes, be used with the FTZ, they would no longer be AF, only manually focusing lenses. Sorry -- deal-killer for me right there. The happy, not-so-real balloon had just burst.
So, we are where we are, indeed, and on this unexpectedly warm (67 degrees) Thanksgiving afternoon I've just come in from having spent a lovely time out on the boardwalk and trails around the lake, shooting with my trusty A7R IV and beloved 100-400mm lens, capturing a few images here-and-there of squirrels, Hooded Mergansers, all-season roses, a few leaves that are still hanging on, etc........ Couldn't be happier.
At the time Nikon first released the Z series and lenses along with the FTZ, I read their assurance that consumers could use all their older legacy lenses with the FTZ.....and then very soon found that in reality that was not at all the case and that there also was the additional "gotcha" in that while some older AF lenses could, yes, be used with the FTZ, they would no longer be AF, only manually focusing lenses. Sorry -- deal-killer for me right there. The happy, not-so-real balloon had just burst.
So, we are where we are, indeed, and on this unexpectedly warm (67 degrees) Thanksgiving afternoon I've just come in from having spent a lovely time out on the boardwalk and trails around the lake, shooting with my trusty A7R IV and beloved 100-400mm lens, capturing a few images here-and-there of squirrels, Hooded Mergansers, all-season roses, a few leaves that are still hanging on, etc........ Couldn't be happier.
It is what it is. There is no way to keep up with technological advances unless one has the money to buy the latest and greatest from year to year. Nikon, as a company, will adapt to market changes. If it cannot progress, the technology will be purchased by other companies. Those who are still using older lenses and cameras will continue doing so as long as they have or need to do so.
Discussions about cameras and lenses are much like talking about Ford trucks versus Chevy trucks. Some like Ford, while others like Chevy, but in reality the driving experience (enjoyment) is what matters. Having fun with a Sony, or a Canon, or a Nikon, or even with a $63,000 Phase One XF? Go for it, and enjoy photography.
Phase One FX:
Discussions about cameras and lenses are much like talking about Ford trucks versus Chevy trucks. Some like Ford, while others like Chevy, but in reality the driving experience (enjoyment) is what matters. Having fun with a Sony, or a Canon, or a Nikon, or even with a $63,000 Phase One XF? Go for it, and enjoy photography.
Phase One FX:
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You couldn't be happier is the key there.... keep walking your own path right?
Nikon - name brand cell phones.
"Oooh, did you see my new Nikon phone - the camera is awesome"
Not thinking outside the playpen killed Kodak.
"Oooh, did you see my new Nikon phone - the camera is awesome"
Not thinking outside the playpen killed Kodak.
Not true, a DX lens will work on a FX body; just will be cropped in the viewfinder.
Right but it negates the entire purpose of a full frame camera.
Nikon's not really in trouble - all the camera makers are sort of in trouble, Olympus being the first to "bow-out"...
Panasonic MFT is probably next then Canon M Mount...
Nikon has two new DSLR's in the works...
Panasonic MFT is probably next then Canon M Mount...
Nikon has two new DSLR's in the works...
The fact that they are still producing DSLR's shows they are in trouble. Sure they still have photographers that will still buy them but that is not where the trends are headed. Nikon is way behind the curve when it comes to what people want.
If dSLRs are still selling then I don't see how it's a bad thing to offer them to people willing to buy them. Some people, regardless of the trend, do not want a mirrorless camera, and often for valid reasons. Nikon may well save themselves by being a niche dealer of dSLRs.
Should Nikon have offered mirrorless earlier? Yep. Are they behind the 8-ball? Not really anymore, other than marketing. Does offering dSLR technology, which is already developed and online for production hurt them? I can't see how it would.
I was going to get rid of my Nikon DSLR's and lenses and switch to mirrorless. After trying a whole bunch off different mirrorless ILC's, I've decided on Sony and Fuji, but only ADDING to what I use.
I'm keeping my Nikons as I love the OVF and the quality/price performance of the F mount DX ED VR lenses...
I'm not much of a fan of the EVF, but they'll get there, eventually.
Nikon Mirrorless Cameras are so new, the cameras are not really at good prices on the used market...
I hear what you are saying, but I will offer a couple of counter-examples.
My favorite macro lens is the Nikon 200mm. Sony doesn’t offer an equivalent lens. Yes, the FTZ adapter can’t AF with this older design screw AF lens—but I use MF when shooting macro anyway so it isn’t an issue. I own the Sony 90mm macro lens and it’s an okay lens, but the 200mm focal length of the Nikon is preferable, as is the IQ of the Nikon lens.
Sony doesn’t have any tilt-shift lenses in their lineup. Nikon does (though an argument could be made that Nikon isn’t the best brand for TS lenses). But my Nikon TS lenses work fine with the FTZ adapter. Not an option with Sony.
Yes these are niche cases that may not apply to you, but don’t dismiss the Nikon lens lineup out of hand or posit that a switch to Sony is equivalent regarding native lens offerings. Or that the FTZ adapter is “junk” or involves meaningful compromises.
The FTZ adapter works quite well. Not perfect for every F mount lens, but I’ve been pretty impressed on my Z7 with most of my legacy lenses. Or not so legacy lenses—my 70-200 f/2.8E FL works flawlessly on my Z7 with FTZ adapter compared to my D850. So well that I have no desire to purchase the new Z version of the lens.
I switched to Sony several years ago for their mirrorless options (A7R2 and A7R3). Switched back to Nikon with the Z7. Pluses and minuses with both systems. If Nikon goes under, I have good lenses for Sony that cover most of my photographic needs. But there are some Nikon lenses that don’t have a Sony equivalent.
Might not be relevant for your needs, but very relevant for some of my needs. Losing that as an option would make me sad.
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I don't understand what you are saying about the Canon M mount. In 2012, an EF to M adapter was created by Canon for the EOS M mirrorless interchangeable-lens camera. The second Canon mount for mirrorless cameras if the R mount. However, using the appropriate adapters on the Canon mirrorless cameras, one still can use all the Canon EF and EFS lenses on both the M and R mounts.
I purchased a Canon R6 recently, and all my EF lenses are 100% supported when I use the Canon RF to R adapter. Without the adapter, only RF lenses can be mounted on the newest Canon mount, The RF. EF lenses that have IS use both the Sensor IS, and the lens IS. EF lenses that don't have IS are only support by the sensor IS. Manual lenses that do can also be used.
In the DSLR cameras (according to Canon Rumors), the EOS 80D and 7D Mark II is being replaced by the EOS 90D. Two more DSLR cameras being produced are the 850D, and Rebel T8i. The last production of the top of the line Canon camera was the 1DX III (sports and action photography). Canon had already entered the mirrorless arena with the EOS-R, and now continues with the R5 and R6 under the R mount. Then Canon is big with professional cinema cameras such as the ones below.
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I loved that Nikon 200mm macro!!!! I also loved the 75-180mm zoom macro as well. Both were truly remarkable lenses. I would be very happy if Sony were to release a lens equivalent to either of those..... ooh, yeah!!!!
My Sony 90mm macro is much more than just an "okay" lens; I actually prefer it and the way it handles, feels in my hands, to Nikon's fat 105mm macro. True, the latter took nice macros, but I always felt that it was awkward and a bit too large to hold comfortably in my hands. I really hope for Nikon macro users' sakes that the new version for the Z cameras will have been put on a diet and subsequently be a bit slimmer. I often found myself using the 60mm macro, as it seemed so much more maneuverable and comfortable to use in many situations.
Yes, from what I gather from comments on Nikon Cafe and here, the newer Nikon F-mount lenses work very nicely with the FTZ adapter, but that doesn't help the person who has a bunch of legacy lenses and whose eyesight really needs AF as much as possible....
The M mount for all practical purposes, is dead...
Canon EOS M7 Rumored Specs, and Canon May Kill the EOS M Line in 2021 ? - Canon Rumors CO
We already know that Canon will announce a new EOS M7 high-end/flagship APS-C mirrorless camera at the end of 2020. Now a new rumored specs list of Canon EOS M7 is online, take a look at below: 32mp APS-C sensor with DPAF II IBIS Slightly renewed DIGIC LSI Cheap EVF, 2.36Mdots Dual SD Cards, speed
As someone who shoots on a so-called "dead" brand, I say, who cares? The day my stuff stops working and I can't replace it, or it no longer meets my needs, then I'll decide what to do. I'm not just going to throw it all out today so I can hitch myself to the winning horse, whatever that means. That's just a good way to burn money, IMO.
It sure seems like some folks feel like they have to predict these things, maybe just for the sake of possibly being right about it someday. In regards to rumors from tuned-in experts, I'll leave this here:
bgr.com
It sure seems like some folks feel like they have to predict these things, maybe just for the sake of possibly being right about it someday. In regards to rumors from tuned-in experts, I'll leave this here:
Windows Phone will beat Android in 2013, analyst explains
Late last week, BGR wrote about a recent report suggesting Microsoft’s share of the global smartphone market would overtake Google’s share in 2015, and Windows …
bgr.com
I loved that Nikon 200mm macro!!!! I also loved the 75-180mm zoom macro as well. Both were truly remarkable lenses. I would be very happy if Sony were to release a lens equivalent to either of those..... ooh, yeah!!!!
My Sony 90mm macro is much more than just an "okay" lens; I actually prefer it and the way it handles, feels in my hands, to Nikon's fat 105mm macro. True, the latter took nice macros, but I always felt that it was awkward and a bit too large to hold comfortably in my hands. I really hope for Nikon macro users' sakes that the new version for the Z cameras will have been put on a diet and subsequently be a bit slimmer. I often found myself using the 60mm macro, as it seemed so much more maneuverable and comfortable to use in many situations.
Yes, from what I gather from comments on Nikon Cafe and here, the newer Nikon F-mount lenses work very nicely with the FTZ adapter, but that doesn't help the person who has a bunch of legacy lenses and whose eyesight really needs AF as much as possible....
I see what you are saying. However, those who are still using cameras with M mount, can still use the EF canon lenses. As with all camera brands and models, consumers tend to drift toward the newer releases. New users buy the newer cameras with the new lenses, but those who are already invested with the older lenses, "adapt" then to the new camera bodies. Canon has already released a long line of new R lenses in two forms, relatively inexpensive but sharp lenses, and expensive ones., even a 35mm macro. Both EF-R adapters are 100% compatible, function wise, with Canon EF, RF, and EF-S lenses, plus lenses made by other manufacturers. I am still using a Tokina 16-28mm lens on both AF and M focusing on my R6. I use this lens mostly for taking photos of the Auroras (set on M, of course).The M mount for all practical purposes, is dead...
Canon EOS M7 Rumored Specs, and Canon May Kill the EOS M Line in 2021 ? - Canon Rumors CO
We already know that Canon will announce a new EOS M7 high-end/flagship APS-C mirrorless camera at the end of 2020. Now a new rumored specs list of Canon EOS M7 is online, take a look at below: 32mp APS-C sensor with DPAF II IBIS Slightly renewed DIGIC LSI Cheap EVF, 2.36Mdots Dual SD Cards, speedwww.canonrumors.co
Sony and Canon are very large companies compared to Nikon, and while some photographers may have switched from Canon to Sony, the market share of both Canon and Sony is quite good:
Digital camera manufacturers market share worldwide 2023 | Statista
Canon dominated the global digital camera market in 2023, accounting for nearly half of it.
www.statista.com
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That makes a lot os sense, specially if you don't want to spend like crazy buying the latest and greatest from one year to the next. I am still using cameras that are over ten years oldAs someone who shoots on a so-called "dead" brand, I say, who cares? The day my stuff stops working and I can't replace it, or it no longer meets my needs, then I'll decide what to do. I'm not just going to throw it all out today so I can hitch myself to the winning horse, whatever that means. That's just a good way to burn money, IMO.
It sure seems like some folks feel like they have to predict these things, maybe just for the sake of possibly being right about it someday. In regards to rumors from tuned-in experts, I'll leave this here:
Windows Phone will beat Android in 2013, analyst explains
Late last week, BGR wrote about a recent report suggesting Microsoft’s share of the global smartphone market would overtake Google’s share in 2015, and Windows …