Nikon or Pentax?

[coldrain]

That is a really bold statement and it could mean many things. Care to clarify? I don't think any camera company deserves such a lashing but that's just me.

Just fanboy bitterness from a Pentax fan, carletonmusic.
To me a camera is as good as its sensor and internal processing allow it to be. If he wants to believe a Pentax K10D beats Canon, I guess that is his freedom.

One could also argue Canon is the Apple of the camera world, it being the only one that develops lenses, its sensors and processors itself. Last time I checked Microsoft only develops the OS, while Apple develops the hardware and OS both.

It remains a silly analogy, anyway. If one can not see that Canon has gained its market position by product development and research, and not by strong arming tactics like MS, that is just a bit shortsighted.

Canon has no leverage to make someone buy one of their cameras.

 

[compuwar]

One could also argue Canon is the Apple of the camera world, it being the only one that develops lenses, its sensors and processors itself.

Canon doesn't make its own glass though. That's done by Ohara AFAICT.

 

[coldrain]

Canon doesn't make its own glass though. That's done by Ohara AFAICT.

Canon does develop and produce their own lenses. Saying a lens manfucaturer does not make its own glass (a raw production material) is quite silly anyway. Ohara supplies glass to Nikon, Pentax, Minolta, Leica and what not.
Canon actually produces the glass kinds for special elements themselves, and have many patents on their glass fabrication technology.

Oh... and on a side note. Ohara is a subsidiary from Canon Inc. This makes Canon the producer of glass for Nikon, and most other lens manufacturers.

 

[bousozoku]

Canon is the Microsoft of the camera world.

And contrary to some of the nonsense being posted on here, Pentax have made and still do make some of the finest lenses in the world.

Thank you for saying that but it's just their SLR division. I do like my Canon printer. Canon have great technology. They just have a habit of making it a pain to use. Wait! Did I just defend Canon?

 

[Grimace]

ignoring the Micro$oft comment about Canon...

Nikon and Canon have always (in my view) had a healthy competition for the (overall) camera market crown. Nikon reigned, now it's Canon's turn, in 3 years it could be somebody else.

As Mac users, we love our gear/toys. This certainly extends to our SLRs - if we are happy, we love to talk about it.

In the end, the photographer is one of the most important pieces of the equation -- so I'm glad there are people on this forum who put down their brand banners to share techniques, support, and advice.

You guys rock.

 

[840quadra]

Canon is the Microsoft of the camera world.

Thank you for that worthless inflammatory statement.

Nikon and Canon have always (in my view) had a healthy competition for the (overall) camera market crown. Nikon reigned, now it's Canon's turn, in 3 years it could be somebody else.

As Mac users, we love our gear/toys. This certainly extends to our SLRs - if we are happy, we love to talk about it.

In the end, the photographer is one of the most important pieces of the equation -- so I'm glad there are people on this forum who put down their brand banners to share techniques, support, and advice.

You guys rock.

Well said.

Each product, no matter what kind of technology, will have a fan base. Regardless of said product, or equipment, they will defend it to the end, no matter how bad it may be.

In terms of Canon and Nikon, I think there is just too little to complain about, and you really have to dig deep to find a bad thing about either company (my opinion obviously).

And don't cross me anyone, or I will shoot you with my Canon camera .

 

[MacAnkka]

One could also argue Canon is the Apple of the camera world, it being the only one that develops lenses, its sensors and processors itself. Last time I checked Microsoft only develops the OS, while Apple develops the hardware and OS both.

Also, Canon created a whole new mount for the lenses with autofocus and electronic aperture selection (kinda like the Mac OS to Mac OS X transition), while Nikon and Pentax based their electronic lense mount on the old, making it more backwards compatible (Like what Microsoft has done to Windows).

 

[coldrain]

Also, Canon created a whole new mount for the lenses with autofocus and electronic aperture selection (kinda like the Mac OS to Mac OS X transition), while Nikon and Pentax based their electronic lense mount on the old, making it more backwards compatible (Like what Microsoft has done to Windows).

OS 9 applications worked fine on OS X on PPC, the Intel switch that Apple was forced into only broke that. Vista is not even very compatible with XP applications.

Nikon and Pentax are now in the process of breaking their so called compatibility. Nikon started to test the waters with an AF-S only D40, dropping all other lenses from autofocussing. Before that they didnt allow the D70(s), D80 and D50 meter with manual focus lenses, something you can do with the same lenses on any Canon DSLR with Nikon adapter.

So... the switch Canon made (wisely) with the introduction of the EOS series is now taking place at Nikon, with much more confusion. And Pentax is introducing lenses with internal USM motors, which will not work on DSLRs from even last year.

It is a bit silly to bring the EF lens mount which has been around since 1987 or so up everytime, it was and is a very good decision on Canon's part.

 

[MacSA]

Just fanboy bitterness from a Pentax fan, carletonmusic.

Just Fanboy bitterness from a Canon fan.

I also wouldn't take the slightest bit of notice of reviews over at dpreview, their pro canon/nikon bias is legendary.

 

[MacAnkka]

OS 9 applications worked fine on OS X on PPC, the Intel switch that Apple was forced into only broke that.

Granted, my comparison isn't exactly correct, but you can't deny that thy are quite similiar. That Windows is dropping backwards compatibility, Pentax/Nikon is dropping backwards compatibility sounds quite a like, too.

Anyways, this next quote actually reminded me of something that actually had something to do with the topic:

something you can do with the same lenses on any Canon DSLR with Nikon adapter.

With canon, you can use a lot of other lenses besides the Canon lenses. You can adapt M42, Nikon, Contax, Olympus OM and other lenses. This is possible because the Canon mount is more closer to the film/sensor than the mounts of the other systems I mentioned, leaving room for a adapter. With Nikon, you can only use Nikon lenses (maybe you can adapt a few others, but can't think of any. Well, besides medium formats and bigger) because the mount is so far away from the film/sensor.

There are a lot of nice lenses available for all of those mounts. Granted, they don't have Auto-focus, electronic aperture selection or anything fancy like that, but there are a lot of high quality lenses available for very cheap prices.

My brother has gone quite far in this mentality. He has a 20D, but doesn't have a single auto-focus lense. Instead, he has quite a few older lenses, he's even installed a split image focusing screen on his 20D! Of course you don't have to go that far, but it's always nice to have some older lenses.

(Also, the whole you can use a Nikon lense on a Canon, but you can't use a Canon lense on a Nikon sounds a lot like Bootcamp/parallels . Yes, yes, no autofocus etc. but still...)

 

[sjl]

The Sigma 12-24mm is a full frame rectilinear 12-24.

*clickety click*

Hmm. Fredmiranda.com says you're right. I stand corrected - I assumed that anything with that short a focal length would be designed for the smaller image circle of an APS-C sensor (especially given the extreme cost of the Canon EF 14mm). My bad, thanks for enlightening me.

 

[cynerjist]

With canon, you can use a lot of other lenses besides the Canon lenses.

this is an excellent point and should be factored in. when i bought my first dslr, a nikon, i didn't dream of issues like this. i couldn't figure out why anyone would need more than the kit lens.

canon makes some exceptional glass.

 

[Clix Pix]

. Instead, he has quite a few older lenses, he's even installed a split image focusing screen on his 20D! Of course you don't have to go that far, but it's always nice to have some older lenses.

(Also, the whole you can use a Nikon lense on a Canon, but you can't use a Canon lense on a Nikon sounds a lot like Bootcamp/parallels . Yes, yes, no autofocus etc. but still...)

Frankly, I wouldn't WANT to use a Canon lens on a Nikon camera (and probably if I were a dyed-in-the-wool had-core Canonite, wouldn't want to put Nikon lenses on a Canon). No need to worry about that, though, since with Nikon there are plenty of wonderful old Nikkor lenses from which to choose, and many of us have done exactly that. Also there is a firm called Katz-Eye Optics which makes very nice focusing screens that work quite well when using those golden oldie manual lenses.

 

[cynerjist]

Frankly, I wouldn't WANT to use a Canon lens on a Nikon camera (and probably if I were a dyed-in-the-wool had-core Canonite, wouldn't want to put Nikon lenses on a Canon). No need to worry about that, though, since with Nikon there are plenty of wonderful old Nikkor lenses from which to choose, and many of us have done exactly that. Also there is a firm called Katz-Eye Optics which makes very nice focusing screens that work quite well when using those golden oldie manual lenses.

i think increasing the number of options available stimulates competition and ultimately benefits consumers.

nikkor is fantastic, don't get me wrong. but i would have loved to have had the option of the wide-angle canon. i ended up with the tokina 12-24mm as i felt the nikon was overpriced.

i will say i love my nikon. and i will see you over at nikonians.

 

[840quadra]

I also wouldn't take the slightest bit of notice of reviews over at dpreview, their pro canon/nikon bias is legendary.

Seriously ?

Pentax K100D's
Highly Recommended
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/pentaxk100d/page24.asp

Pentax K10D
Highly Recommended (just)
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/pentaxk10d/page25.asp

Fujifilm Finepix S6000fd / S6500fd
Highly Recommended (with some reservations)
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/fujifilms6000fd/page14.asp

Sony Alpha DSLR-A100
Highly Recommended
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonydslra100/page30.asp

Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ50
Highly Recommended (just)
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonicfz50/page19.asp

Sony Cyber-shot H2
Highly Recommended
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonyh2/page14.asp

Kodak EasyShare P850
Recommended
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/kodakp850/page15.asp


You are correct, they are quite harsh with non Canon / Nikon camera equipment, and obviously are bias!

And yes, some are not "pro cameras" in the list I included, but what exactly is a Pro Camera ?

 

[coldrain]

Frankly, I wouldn't WANT to use a Canon lens on a Nikon camera (and probably if I were a dyed-in-the-wool had-core Canonite, wouldn't want to put Nikon lenses on a Canon). No need to worry about that, though, since with Nikon there are plenty of wonderful old Nikkor lenses from which to choose, and many of us have done exactly that. Also there is a firm called Katz-Eye Optics which makes very nice focusing screens that work quite well when using those golden oldie manual lenses.

Why on earth would you not WANT to use a Canon lens when the Canon lens would be better than the Nikon equivalent? Now THAT is silly.

But anyway. You can not really use old manual focus lenses on Nikon bodies below the D200. Not only do you have to manual focus (of course) but the Nikon bodies refuse to meter!!

Why? Because Nikon likes to force you to buy the more expensive cameras if you happen to have a collection of expensive non-AF Nikon lenses. There is no technical reason for it... even every Canon body can meter fine with a Nikon non AF lens with adapter!

And there are not that many really worthwhile cheaper affordable AI lenses around anyway, Nikon is not Pentax, not Zeiss, not Leica... their lenses from decades ago were not all that exceptional. You are much better off buying new lenses that offer AF anyway. Some old Pentax lenses actually ARE worthwhile to consider if you are a Pentax owner. And the Pentax DSLRs all DO meter with them.

And Katz-Eye does not make those focus screens. They actually adapt focus screens from Minolta I believe it was. Do you want a Minolta screen in your camera?? LOL

Beware of focus screens like that, they will diminish AF performance for the AF lenses.

I have 5 Nikkor lenses with my Nikon Nikkormat FTn. I love them on that camera, but I know that it is not worthwhile to go through the trouble of putting them on my DSLR. Technology has moved on even in lens design, and I know that the optical level of my Tokina 12-24mm f4, Tamron 90mm f2.8 macro and Canon EF 70-200 f4 L can not be matched by my old Nikkor lenses.

 

[Clix Pix]

i think increasing the number of options available stimulates competition and ultimately benefits consumers.

nikkor is fantastic, don't get me wrong. but i would have loved to have had the option of the wide-angle canon. i ended up with the tokina 12-24mm as i felt the nikon was overpriced.

i will say i love my nikon. and i will see you over at nikonians.

Although I am subscribed at Nikonians, actually I spend more of my time over at Nikoncafe.com. If you haven't had a look there, pop in sometime!

 

[balofagus]

And Pentax is introducing lenses with internal USM motors, which will not work on DSLRs from even last year.

I think you've got this half right. From what I understand the new lenses will be released as both DA and DA*. Only the DA* will incorporate the SSM focussing (therefore the regular DAs will work just fine). Although I find this a bit decieving as the star (*) used to represent Pentax highest quality lenses (think Canon L's) and as I understand these new lenses are exactly the same aside from SSM. But I don't hae to worry about SSM because I don't have a compatible camera !

I think I have that right.

 

[coldrain]

I think you've got this half right. From what I understand the new lenses will be released as both DA and DA*. Only the DA* will incorporate the SSM focussing (therefore the regular DAs will work just fine). Although I find this a bit decieving as the star (*) used to represent Pentax highest quality lenses (think Canon L's) and as I understand these new lenses are exactly the same aside from SSM. But I don't hae to worry about SSM because I don't have a compatible camera !

I think I have that right.

Thank you for making that clear

 

[balofagus]

Ha, glad its clear to you because I still don't quite get it

 

[compuwar]

Canon does develop and produce their own lenses. Saying a lens manfucaturer does not make its own glass (a raw production material) is quite silly anyway. Ohara supplies glass to Nikon, Pentax, Minolta, Leica and what not.
Canon actually produces the glass kinds for special elements themselves, and have many patents on their glass fabrication technology.

Oh... and on a side note. Ohara is a subsidiary from Canon Inc. This makes Canon the producer of glass for Nikon, and most other lens manufacturers.

Actually, Nikon owns their own glass manufacturing, and was Japan's first optical glass maker starting in 1917. Hikari Glass is a relatively recently acquired (2004) wholly-owned subsidiary of Nikon as well.

If you check, you'll see lots of Nikon patents too.

Ohara seem to think they're independently listed as of 2005, and don't seem to mention Canon at all in their corporate history:

http://www.ohara-inc.co.jp/en/company/history.html

I've seen it said that Mr. Ohara was behind Nikon's glass, and most Japanese companies are listed as customers of Ohara, but it's unclear what parts they supply and if it's camera lens elements at all.

Nikon produced Nikkor camera lenses starting in 1932, while the Nikon I camera didn't appear until 1946. Canon didn't show up until 1933 as Kwanon, and was trademarked as Canon in 1935.

You seem ill-informed.

 

[failsafe1]

The important question here is lens quality and what is available. I would recommend Nikon over Pentax Now I would also recommend Canon over Nikon if that were a choice. I have used Canon and Nikon professionally for a long time and they are great. I use a Canon at the moment and it can't be beat.

 

[epicwelshman]

You know... I keep flip-flopping. But I think I'm gonna go with Canon. Maybe the XTi. I know it's a little small for me, but I'm sure I'll get used to it and it's a small price to pay for Canon glass.

 

[compuwar]

You know... I keep flip-flopping. But I think I'm gonna go with Canon. Maybe the XTi. I know it's a little small for me, but I'm sure I'll get used to it and it's a small price to pay for Canon glass.

More than anything else, the biggest thing you can do for image quality is to use a sturdy tripod. Body size doesn't matter much on a tripod handling-wise. If you're mostly shooting hand-held then it comes into play a lot more. The only caveat I have to that is if you're shooting verticals, then it may be a factor on a tripod. That's most important if you're shooting for publication or portraits.

 

[janil]

You know... I keep flip-flopping. But I think I'm gonna go with Canon. Maybe the XTi. I know it's a little small for me, but I'm sure I'll get used to it and it's a small price to pay for Canon glass.

This is slightly off topic.. but I just looked at your photoblog. The compositions are very nice-- a lot nicer than what I've seen many people with DSLRs shoot.

I think you'll be very happy with a DSLR with better glass-- whether or not it's Canon, Nikon, or one of the other parties.

After reading this thread, I've realized I'm *really* glad I made my decision without posting here or on other photography boards. It seems like several people are viewing this thread as a chance to convert someone to "their" side in the Canon vs. Nikon battles. If it were me, I would take a day or two away from websites, and then spend some time trying out each of the cameras.

I hope to see more of your work in the future.