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nMP external storage solved

R

raw911

macrumors regular
Original poster
Mar 24, 2003
221
0
I was reading that the promise 2 with TB2 was a VERY GOOD way to go for external storage for the nMP. So I see that apple has a 2-3 week wait but B&H has those now in stock and for cheaper $$$$ they want $1432.99 for the 8TB plus unless you live in NY you won't have to pay the tax. I'm just letting my MF folks know. That's all.
Also
Check out the sharp 4K display B&H also has that at a cheaper $$$$
 
I decided to do a raid combo platter on my 1,1 with 4tb hybrid drives and plug it in fw800. Will end up with an 8tb mirrored raid
 
I use a Synology DS212J for my main storage... but I needed additional local storage to supplement my built-in SSD (I ordered stock 6-core). So I ended up using 2 Samsung SSDs (840 EVOs with 250 GB each) on a Seagate Thunderbolt Adapter to supplement my built-in SSD. I'm using symbolic links to redirect my local files (along with my Win 8.1 Parallels file). I've been impressed with the speed so far (but I only received my nMP on Friday).
 

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I ordered the empty four bay from the Apple store, I have a lot of drives sitting around and it's quite a bit cheaper.
 
Vlad92 said:
I use a Synology DS212J for my main storage... but I needed additional local storage to supplement my built-in SSD (I ordered stock 6-core). So I ended up using 2 Samsung SSDs (840 EVOs with 250 GB each) on a Seagate Thunderbolt Adapter to supplement my built-in SSD. I'm using symbolic links to redirect my local files (along with my Win 8.1 Parallels file). I've been impressed with the speed so far (but I only received my nMP on Friday).
Click to expand...

Sharp.

We need benchmarks - CPU and GPU!!

Mine isn't coming until February. But I ordered a LaCie Thunderbolt to eSATA adapter box on which I'll put my two OWC Elite Pro Qx2 RAID 5 boxes. Should be much faster than connecting them via Thunderbolt to FireWire 800 (though $170 vs. $29 for the adapter).
 
Cubemmal said:
I ordered the empty four bay from the Apple store, I have a lot of drives sitting around and it's quite a bit cheaper.
Click to expand...

I ordered the empty one too. It is a lot cheaper that way since Promise uses Toshiba drives that were available on Newegg for $90 each. I think I want a little more reliable drive anyways in it.
 
I don't have specific experience with the Pegasus2, but it's usually true in these cases that other drive models will work. They just haven't been tested by the vendor, so you're on your own if they don't.
 
ZnU said:
I don't have specific experience with the Pegasus2, but it's usually true in these cases that other drive models will work. They just haven't been tested by the vendor, so you're on your own if they don't.
Click to expand...

Exactly. I bought a pegasus R6 on ebay though, and replaced all the 1TB drives with 2TB drives. They hadn't been on Promise's list. It works like a charm.
 
chfilm said:
Exactly. I bought a pegasus R6 on ebay though, and replaced all the 1TB drives with 2TB drives. They hadn't been on Promise's list. It works like a charm.
Click to expand...

Warning.

Don't try to use cheap consumer drives in a RAID array - go for "enterprise" or "RAID edition" or "NAS" drives.

Consumer drives are programmed with error recovery algorithms that conflict with the assumptions built into hardware RAID controllers.

They'll "work like a charm" -- until there's a drive error.
 
I might try the Pegasus2 R4 diskless as well.

I have 2x 4TB drives (software) mirrored on Thunderbolt, plus a 128GB SSD on USB3 & 4TB Time Machine on USB3.

Would be nice to consolidate a little.
 
AidenShaw said:
Warning.

Don't try to use cheap consumer drives in a RAID array - go for "enterprise" or "RAID edition" or "NAS" drives.

Consumer drives are programmed with error recovery algorithms that conflict with the assumptions built into hardware RAID controllers.

They'll "work like a charm" -- until there's a drive error.
Click to expand...

Could you explain? I'll assume that an "enterprise" drive can have drive errors as well but handles them differently?
 
AidenShaw said:
Warning.

Don't try to use cheap consumer drives in a RAID array - go for "enterprise" or "RAID edition" or "NAS" drives.

Consumer drives are programmed with error recovery algorithms that conflict with the assumptions built into hardware RAID controllers.

They'll "work like a charm" -- until there's a drive error.
Click to expand...

Hm they've been running since one year now..
Seagate ST2000DM001 Barracuda 2TB SATA60

Actually those were the ones that I got sold bundled with a drobo 5d.
 
gnasher729 said:
Could you explain? I'll assume that an "enterprise" drive can have drive errors as well but handles them differently?
Click to expand...

I have a synology DS1512+ with two DX513 expansion units giving me 15 x 3TB drives in a RAID6 array. Enterprise drives are different. The main issue i've encountered with consumer drives is that Enterprise drives are much faster when it comes to reading bad sectors and remapping data. I have used consumer drives in the past and as above, they work fine... for a while.

When you start to get bad sectors, the consumer drives take much longer to remap and the RAID controller flags the drive as not responding and reports a read error. This can result in the whole array to fail if you're not careful. Yes you pay a lot more for enterprise drives, but they are designed for continuous usage and I've long since migrated the array over. 45TB is a lot of data to loose! ;)
 
AidenShaw said:
Warning.

Don't try to use cheap consumer drives in a RAID array - go for "enterprise" or "RAID edition" or "NAS" drives.

Consumer drives are programmed with error recovery algorithms that conflict with the assumptions built into hardware RAID controllers.

They'll "work like a charm" -- until there's a drive error.
Click to expand...

My experience exactly. Great advice.
 
echoout said:
My experience exactly. Great advice.
Click to expand...

Actually I once had a drive failure with one of these. But I just replaced it, raid reconfigured itself and everything works fine since then.

Are you saying those drives can destroy the whole raid?
 
evilpaddy said:
I have a synology DS1512+ with two DX513 expansion units giving me 15 x 3TB drives in a RAID6 array. Enterprise drives are different. The main issue i've encountered with consumer drives is that Enterprise drives are much faster when it comes to reading bad sectors and remapping data. I have used consumer drives in the past and as above, they work fine... for a while.

When you start to get bad sectors, the consumer drives take much longer to remap and the RAID controller flags the drive as not responding and reports a read error. This can result in the whole array to fail if you're not careful. Yes you pay a lot more for enterprise drives, but they are designed for continuous usage and I've long since migrated the array over. 45TB is a lot of data to loose! ;)
Click to expand...

Or "lose" :)

I have the same setup - except 1211+ with one box car. I use the WD Green drives which are recommended by both Drobo and Synology. Other than occasional SMART test failures (which is a problematic test anyhow) they've worked fine for years. Only a few failures so far.

I'm not convinced that the Enterprise drives are actually worth that difference. The final proof is to look at the Promise web site compatibility list for the Pegasus2. None of the drives listed are enterprise, they're all consumer.
 
Does anyone here use macgurus.com as their vendor for hard drive enclosures?

They've been around for a long time and they have a positive rep I understand for multi-bay hot swap enclosures.
 
chfilm said:
Hm they've been running since one year now..
Seagate ST2000DM001 Barracuda 2TB SATA60

Actually those were the ones that I got sold bundled with a drobo 5d.
Click to expand...

The flawed presumption is that all hardware RAID recovery algorithms are aggressive and/or can't be parameterized. If Drobo is being shipped with those drives then most likely Drobo has adapted to the slower error recovery mode of the more mainstream drives they (and except their customers to put) into their systems.

The higher end hardware RAID vendors don't. They expect and have optimized to different set of drives with different characteristics. The root cause of the failure here the mismatch between the enclosure vendor's design expectation and the customer sticking in drives not on the certified(or designed for) list.

The core issue is how many time the drive will try internally to correct for an error. Most mainstream drives are used where there is no alternative source for the data ( other than perhaps a slow back-up). They will try multiple times to work around a read/write error before giving up. Enterprie drive in RAID mirror/parity context the alternative version of the data is somewhere else. So if those drives quickly punt, the RAID controller can just quickly look somewhere else and come back to this drive to see if it continues to have problems. If the drive doesn't respond quickly it will assume the entire drive is bad and basically kick it out.

If in a parity/mirror set up can probably survive one drive being prematurely kicked out but if kick out two then the whole RAID set goes bad ( or at least dark ).

----------
raw911 said:
I was reading that the promise 2 with TB2 was a VERY GOOD way to go for external storage for the nMP. ....
Click to expand...

For RAID yes ( depending upon workload needs). For JBOD (or software RAID 0/1/10 layered on top ) not so much. In the second case there are $/performance issues. It works, but probably paying paying alot more than have to.

The "49'er gold rush" to the Promise T2 solutions is questionable. There is probably going to be a limited window where it is the only shipped TB v2 solution. "Only" is different from "VERY GOOD".
 
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