nMP GPUs? Swappable? Not swappable?

[akis-k]

also.. here's something i posted yesterday in a similar thread about cpu

.........
here's what the 2013 rmbp manual says:

"Your MacBook Pro does not have any user-serviceable parts. If you need service, contact Apple or take your MacBook Pro to an Apple Authorized Service Provider."

here's what owc sells:

http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/SSD/OWC/Air-Retina/Apple-MacBook-Pro-Retina-2012-Drive-Internal-Flash

...and it's important to realize the ssds are proprietary.. meaning, OWC isn't selling those things without apple's permission (& apple tax)

True! What you are saying is right. I guess that is the logic of Apple, "don't touch it, let me do the hard work" kind of thing (with more money to give them for the service).
Though the fact is that in SSD's they are using the pci-e socket, which is serviceable and widespread even in pc motherboards. In the case of cpu and gpu's of mac pro we still don't know how they are connected (some kind of socket or lane-input)and if everything else apart from what Apple is providing, is compatible. Thankfully it will be, but hey its Apple we are talking about..

 

[antonis]

According to apple no, as you can check here (3rd page): http://manuals.info.apple.com/MANUALS/1000/MA1668/en_US/mac_pro_late-2013_ipig.pdf

Hm...the manual doesn't say we cannot change GPUs. They say that we should not. As far as it concerns me, I understand that they are removable. Oh well, I guess iFixit will answer to that, hopefully soon.

The real question (already asked in some posts above) is: If I remove the existing GPUs, will there be any alternatives in the near future ? Is apple going to invest on this type of GPU cards and offer more options ?

 

[akis-k]

right- see the post about rmbp drives #

and also realize that the lawyers and designers aren't the same people nor is it likely that they are harmoniously working together

Valid point there! The irony is that my profession deals with both law and design!

 

[flat five]

Valid point there! The irony is that my profession deals with both law and design!

really? that stirs my imagination

is it © law or smthng?

 

[akis-k]

really? that stirs my imagination

is it © law or smthng?

No, though the way i misleadingly wrote it could lead to that conclusion.. I'm an architect, meaning that in most cases i have to "marry" the design proccess to the huge amount of laws and regulations..

 

[flat five]

No, though the way i misleadingly wrote it could lead to that conclusion.. I'm an architect, meaning that in most cases i have to "marry" the design proccess to the huge amount of laws and regulations..

oh.. right. i do the same thing. (design & build actually)..
but i build things which don't have codes written for them so my freedom in that dept skyrockets

 

[goMac]

Hm...the manual doesn't say we cannot change GPUs. They say that we should not. As far as it concerns me, I understand that they are removable. Oh well, I guess iFixit will answer to that, hopefully soon.

The real question (already asked in some posts above) is: If I remove the existing GPUs, will there be any alternatives in the near future ? Is apple going to invest on this type of GPU cards and offer more options ?

It also says users should not change the GPUs. That doesn't say the GPUs are not upgradable by a service center.

 

[antonis]

It also says users should not change the GPUs. That doesn't say the GPUs are not upgradable by a service center.

Exactly my point. Obviously apple doesn't want us to mess with the machine internals too much (which is not a big surprise anyway). So it all comes (again) to this: will there be more GPU options in the future ?

 

[deconstruct60]

@ slughead
So you are speculating that a 1000$ option today will become more expensive in the future? ... there's no reason to not upgrade to the D700 from the start(or at least to the D500). They are only 1000$ more..

$1000 pragmatically represents a "trade-in and upgrade' cost.

dual D300 -> daul 700 $1000
dual D300 -> dual 500 $400

Those are brand-new, never used, dual D300s that could be used in another brand new Mac Pro. so the cost is

( raw cost Dual 700 * markUp ) - (raw costs new dual 300 ) = $1,000

1-3 years down the road that second is likely going to drop as both they are not new and far fewer folks want to buy two D300s ( after all this is a context in which folks are moving up the food chain.) They aren't going to want to buy those back. They'll take them back for recycling but they won't be paying top dollar for them.

Additionally, Apple isn't particularly going to drop the dual D700s costs or mark-up. Both could easily contribute to raising price over time.

After the next Mac Pro releases with new video cards no one is going to be making new D700 , D500, D300. That lack of new ones and an extremely likely lack of a inventory glut of unsold cards means that the prices aren't likely to crater over time. There will be fewer cards to sell over time which will offset much of the 'its old' tax as long as trying to buy "new" (with new-like warranty).

if Apple keeps the slot mostly the same, it is even worse 3-4 years out as the Dx00 v2 and Dx00 v3 cards will be floating around on the market also and even fewer folks will want to upgrade to the v1 versions.

The real issue is far more whether enough folks are going to buy the the cards. it is plainly evident there is a "as low or lower than mainstream GPU" card buying market. It that is largely who is yammer for upgrades than Apple will pass on the drama.

 

[wallysb01]

@ slughead
So you are speculating that a 1000$ option today will become more expensive in the future? I really don't understand the logic behind this, price tend to drop usually, or in the worst case to remain the same.

Actually, that’s not uncommon for things that you have to BTO from the company and have no official user upgrade path. Its a bit like the turnkey program at OWC for CPU swaps on the previous Mac Pro. Those prices were way high....

 

[slughead]

@ slughead
So you are speculating that a 1000$ option today will become more expensive in the future? I really don't understand the logic behind this, price tend to drop usually, or in the worst case to remain the same.

For actual proprietary replacement components, Apple and other companies charge a horrendous premium. I have bought official Apple replacement parts in the past and have seen them attempt to charge people double for a hard drive, $1800 for a Mac Pro mainboard, etc.

Not related to Apple but in this context: I worked for a company supplying refurbished proprietary replacement parts for Dell and HP servers. You would not believe the markups.

Additionally, Apple isn't particularly going to drop the dual D700s costs or mark-up. Both could easily contribute to raising price over time.

After the next Mac Pro releases with new video cards no one is going to be making new D700 , D500, D300. That lack of new ones and an extremely likely lack of a inventory glut of unsold cards means that the prices aren't likely to crater over time. There will be fewer cards to sell over time which will offset much of the 'its old' tax as long as trying to buy "new" (with new-like warranty).

Actually, that’s not uncommon for things that you have to BTO from the company and have no official user upgrade path. Its a bit like the turnkey program at OWC for CPU swaps on the previous Mac Pro. Those prices were way high....

GT120's are still going for ~$170 and that's on the open market. If anything, the proprietary/specialized nature of these replacement parts makes them rarer over time.

 

[flat five]

if/when they open up the second ssd slot, they better have an upgrade path in place for the people buying the 6,1 or else there are going to be a lot of ticked off individuals..

it almost seems as if they're doing this on purpose (or- i haven't seen any conclusive evidence on why a 2nd ssd is not technically possible).. as if they've designed (financially) this in order to sell a lot of gpu+2nd ssd upgrades in the future.

which, if true, is pretty damn sheisty.. but camouflaged because people will be happy to get the 2nd drive and apparent new technology ("oh yay!, just last week, the geniuses at apple figured out a way to add a 2nd slot.. take my money please!")

[edit]
but then again, that's pretty much what i expect them to do and it just backs up the thing i've been saying all along.. the bold letters in the middle of this post:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1675303/

(this nmp is entirely user upgradeable and you are going to spend more money on your computers in the next decade because of it)

 

[flat five]

from the engadget review:
http://www.engadget.com/2013/12/23/apple-mac-pro-review-2013/?ncid=rss_truncated


"With the exception of the processor, everything is user-replaceable -- the RAM, the GPUs and the solid-state storage. (I still wouldn't recommend that the average person replace the GPU himself, but then again, the Mac Pro isn't exactly for the average consumer in the first place.)"

sort of hazy details.. i mean, did they remove a gpu or did apple tell them the gpu is replaceable.. and if the gpu is replaceable, it doesn't make any sense that the cpu wouldn't be.. they both have those custom brackets and use the same screws.. tear down still needed..

 

[slughead]

if/when they open up the second ssd slot, they better have an upgrade path in place for the people buying the 6,1 or else there are going to be a lot of ticked off individuals..

from the engadget review:
http://www.engadget.com/2013/12/23/apple-mac-pro-review-2013/?ncid=rss_truncated


"With the exception of the processor, everything is user-replaceable -- the RAM, the GPUs and the solid-state storage. (I still wouldn't recommend that the average person replace the GPU himself, but then again, the Mac Pro isn't exactly for the average consumer in the first place.)"

You are reaching pretty far to try and say to a certainty that nMP upgrades are going to be a possibility. Since you're digging up your past posts, I'll also point out a thread where you speculated that Apple would create a whole part of its company dedicated for nMP upgrades. That thread was locked after many pages of repetitive speculative gibberish and you assuming there was a conspiracy against you because absolutely nobody saw this as possible.

Nobody has done a teardown, and nobody has talked about specific plans for upgrading the GPUs. Moreover, any look at previous user-replaceable GPUs by Apple is a sad history of extremely limited and/or expensive options that have left 99% of people choosing to replace the whole box when 3rd party options are not available. With this level of proprietary cards, it is highly unlikely for any upgrades to come from anyone but Apple. Your SSD comparison is almost completely moot, as these are entirely different products--there are almost no driver considerations, and the SSD are highly similar to existing mSATA solutions. A 3rd party GPU for the nMP would be radically different and likely require firmware which hadn't been written and support which doesn't exist.

 

[flat five]

You are reaching pretty far to try and say to a certainty that nMP upgrades are going to be a possibility.

actually, i'm not reaching far at all.. i knew it was upgradable (more importantly for me/myself- serviceable) within the first 5 minutes of looking at the pictures..

the reaching is just trying to convince you all of the same.. doesn't matter though really.. you'll see soon enough.

----------

Your SSD comparison is almost completely moot, as these are entirely different products

the ssd comparison is nothing to do with gpus etc..

that was simply a means to point out that the manual say 'no user serviceable parts' while at the same time, apple is allowing user serviceable parts to be sold.

 

[slughead]

actually, i'm not reaching far at all.. i knew it was upgradable (more importantly for me/myself- serviceable) within the first 5 minutes of looking at the pictures..

I don't think anyone's saying the GPU aren't replaceable, the speculation is whether there might some day be something available to swap it with, and/or that upgrades will be prohibitively expensive/limited (as would be the case with the "boneyard" upgrades option).

 

[flat five]

I don't think anyone's saying the GPU aren't replaceable, the speculation is whether there might some day be something available to swap it with, and/or that upgrades will be prohibitively expensive/limited (as would be the case with the "boneyard" upgrades option).

that's just changing the tune.. i made sure to put a couple of posts in the past threads that say this is exactly what you all are going to do once it's found out that the items are swappable.. as well as what the 'new' arguments will be once the teardowns occur and everything is known to be replaceable..

i'll probably dig those up later to show you but really, i don't care much about proving everybody wrong after that point.. if you look at my posting history, you'll see i don't sit around here for years arguing about geekbench crap etc.. i've been around because the design is exciting to me.. once it's taken apart with real hands and real screwdrivers with real pictures etc-- i'm outta here.. nothing left (for me) to discuss after that.