No 4K, Dolby Vision, HDR support on iMac Pro

[Shivetya]

So according to the iFixit iMac Pro tear down the uses the Intel JHL6540 Thunderbolt controller, that is a Display Port 1.2 chip so that answers the question of why it will not allow the 4K features.

On the product page it still states the 2019 iMac Pro only supports DP 1.2

 

[mikehalloran]

So according to the iFixit iMac Pro tear down the uses the Intel JHL6540 Thunderbolt controller, that is a Display Port 1.2 chip so that answers the question of why it will not allow the 4K features.

On the product page it still states the 2019 iMac Pro only supports DP 1.2

You’ve not been paying attention. 4K streaming works if a 2017 iMac or iMac Pro is running Windows.

 

[priitv8]

Read Post #40.

"And finally the problem. The thunderbolt controller used in the 2017 Mac is Intels Alpine Ridge and its using DisplayPort 1.2 which does not have support for HDCP 2.2. So the requirement of the port and controller to handle HDCP decryption is absent."

So are you saying, that eGPU-s connect to the host via DisplayPort interface in the Thunderbolt bus?
I was under impression, that they connect to host via PCIe side of Thunderbolt bus. That should be too early in the processing chain to require HDCP.
And as I understand it, DP and PCIe are mutually exclusive - ie TB bus can carry one or the other signal but not both simultaneously.

 

[Shivetya]

You’ve not been paying attention. 4K streaming works if a 2017 iMac or iMac Pro is running Windows.

I am only concerned with what it will do through Mac OS. I have a PC specific to my Windows needs.

 

[Apple Mac Daz]

You’ve not been paying attention. 4K streaming works if a 2017 iMac or iMac Pro is running Windows.

So what’s stopping it working under OS X Apple

 

[Fishrrman]

"So what’s stopping it working under OS X Apple"

Problems with the Mac OS, I'd reckon...

 

[EugW]

So what’s stopping it working under OS X Apple

macOS marketecture.

 

[JoshuaMoraski]

macOS marketecture.

That was my thought too! When spending such an amount of money, you would expect long term full support. This is very bad for Apple loyalty.

 

[priitv8]

Quite a number of firm opinions already.
Product is not on the market yet, even.

 

[elvisthebeagle]

I just returned a iMac Pro for the reason that it will not playback 4K HDCP 2.2 DRM HDR10 Video of any kind. It’s a simple matter that the CPU’s are outdated snd discontinued. The Graphics card will never be compatible either. You can playback this media “Netfix” on a Mac Air 2018 or later running windows 10. You will be able to playback this media with the next Mac OS “Catalina” but still need a Intel Kabylake or later CPU with ONBOARD INTEL GRAPHICS! There is no way around it. No fix, no update will change this.
The New Mac Pro will face problems also if not configured correctly. It will need AMD’s 7mm next generation Graphics card “ Vega II ” and a driver called “Adrenaline” then Widows and so on. Of course the Catalina OS will allow this to run w/o Windows 10.
I just bought a ( Student Discount ) regular old 27” iMac Loaded ( with 8gb of RAM and bought 64 GB from OWC ) and I am not going to worry about any of this for a couple off years.

P.S. If you call Apple support they will pretend that this is all new to them and make you wait for a week our longer ( I’m still waiting ) for a reply. Cheers !!!

 

[priitv8]

I just returned a iMac Pro for the reason that it will not playback 4K HDCP 2.2 DRM HDR10 Video of any kind.

What source did you use? Netflix app? Or UHD bluray drive?
IINA player plays 4K HDR10 clips without problems, apart from 2:
a) video needs to be decrypted
b) HDR will be tonemapped as iMac display is not really a HDR display.

 

[elvisthebeagle]

Sorry. do not have much time so I will “cut and paste” some of the sources of my input.

NOTE: 4K and DRM HDCP 2.2 and all this stuff is so screwed up that the first generation of 4K TV’s from Samsung, Sony and LG are NOT compatible with these formats. Not from Blu ray disc or streaming. I know, I bought one... elvisthebeagle

Apple says that "4K, 4K HDR, 4K Dolby Vision, Dolby Atmos, and HDR10 content is available on all Mac models introduced in 2018 or later with 4K-resolution screens”.

This is because the 2017 Mac lineup all utilize Intel's Kaby Lake processors, and Netflix requires the 10-bit HEVC codec support specific to those chips in order to play in 4K on a PC.

4K. is available on all Mac models introduced in 2018 or later with 4K-resolution screens.


Netflix 4K, HDR Streaming Requirements for PC

• Windows 10 Fall Creators Update (for HDR or using discrete graphics)
• Windows 10 HEVC Media Extension, or equivalent (if missing due to Fall Creators Update)
• Latest unspecified Windows Updates
• Microsoft Edge or Windows 10 Netflix application
• Netflix plan that supports 4K and HDR streaming
• High or Automatic Streaming Quality in Netflix Account Playback Settings
• Minimum internet connection speed of 25 Mbps
• 4K display with HDCP 2.2 capability
• HDCP 2.2 certified cable with 4K capable digital interface
• HDCP 2.2 capable and 4K capable digital interface port on motherboard video-out or discrete GPU
• Supported discrete or integrated GPU (PlayReady 3.0, HDCP 2.2 output)
• Appropriate graphics driver

4K HDCP 2.2 DMR HDMI 2.0 HDR10 HDR Dolby Vision Video is most of what the computer needs to process to playback 4K Commercial Content. The only thing ( computer ) on the market right now that will playback this stuff is Intel Kabylake or later processor WITH ONBOARD INTEL GRAPHICS.


To be honest I have no Idea what the below info. from Intel means or if it has anything to do with Apple products. I was so desperate to keep my iMac Pro that I added “just in case”. I still see it back. To big of a gamble.

The only thing that I could find that gave SKYLAKE Processors a ray of hope was this from Intel
*Intel Skylake when a DisplayPort signal is routed into a MegaChips MCDP2800 chip on the motherboard and transformed into a HDMI 2.0 signal, that signal now supports HDCP 2.2.
*Intel Skylake when 1 to 2 DisplayPort signal(s) are routed into a Thunderbolt 3 controller (most likely DisplayPort signal needs to be routed through the motherboard like with the MegaChips chip as external routing is vulnerable), any port from the Thunderbolt 3 controller should support HDCP 2.2. At least HDMI will support it as indicated by Skylake's datasheet (See page 43, Table 2-19, Note 7).


Cheers !!!

 

[mikehalloran]

Really? This is still going on?

4K streaming on 2017 iMacs and iMac Pros is suppose to be supported in one the new apps that will replace iTunes in Catalina. Will they be released for Mojave, too? We'll know in a few weeks.

Not my issue. I don't stream video so whether it will or won't is of no importance to me. But it has been working over Windows on these machines since 2017.

 

[EugW]

Really? This is still going on?

4K streaming on 2017 iMacs and iMac Pros is suppose to be supported in one the new apps that will replace iTunes in Catalina. Will they be released for Mojave, too? We'll know in a few weeks.

Not my issue. I don't stream video so whether it will or won't is of no importance to me. But it has been working over Windows on these machines since 2017.

? Apple said 2018 Macs required (although I have no idea why the 2017s are specifically excluded).

 

[elvisthebeagle]

IPowerResale is selling iMac Pro Referb's that AppleCare can be added to by Apple for $3500. They are base models all boxed up like brand new.

Cheers@!

 

[elvisthebeagle]

I don't mind being wrong if it does not cost me a fortune. I posted that I sent back my iMac Pro and bought a 27" 2019 i9 iMac Loaded to be able to stream 4k DRM HDMI 2.2 AKA Netflix and so on. Well Ladies and Germs I WAS WRONG.
Everything I posted has been correct. The one thing that I missed was that Apple Laptops have Intel CPU's with onboard graphics. The 27" desktop i9 has no onboard graphics. Hence, I sent it back and re-purchased a iMac Pro. I also now have purchased a Refurbished 13" 2018 MacBook Pro that runs it just fine. By the way, it is the Quad Core 256GB and 8GB ram for $1100.00. I save $450 big ones! OWC is a great place to buy anything Apple.
From everything that I have read Intel Kabylake or later with onboard UHD Graphics on Windows 10 is the only way to run this stuff. AMD has posted that their "next gen" 7nm series GPU's AKA Vega II and a driver called Adrenalin will be able to decode also by fall on Apple- spring 20??.......

Cheers !@!!!

P.S. This is not Apple's fault. This is greedy movie studios that are too stupid to realize that this will or has been "hacked" already and it's just alienating people to 4K content.

 

[EugW]

I don't mind being wrong if it does not cost me a fortune. I posted that I sent back my iMac Pro and bought a 27" 2019 i9 iMac Loaded to be able to stream 4k DRM HDMI 2.2 AKA Netflix and so on. Well Ladies and Germs I WAS WRONG.
Everything I posted has been correct. The one thing that I missed was that Apple Laptops have Intel CPU's with onboard graphics. The 27" desktop i9 has no onboard graphics. Hence, I sent it back and re-purchased a iMac Pro. I also now have purchased a Refurbished 13" 2018 MacBook Pro that runs it just fine. By the way, it is the Quad Core 256GB and 8GB ram for $1100.00. I save $450 big ones! OWC is a great place to buy anything Apple.
From everything that I have read Intel Kabylake or later with onboard UHD Graphics on Windows 10 is the only way to run this stuff. AMD has posted that their "next gen" 7nm series GPU's AKA Vega II and a driver called Adrenalin will be able to decode also by fall on Apple- spring 20??.......

The 27" iMac Core i9 has on-board Intel graphics. It's actually impossible not to have it, because it's built right into its i9-9900K CPU.

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/u...9900k-processor-16m-cache-up-to-5-00-ghz.html

P.S. This is not Apple's fault. This is greedy movie studios that are too stupid to realize that this will or has been "hacked" already and it's just alienating people to 4K content.

It's Apple's fault. Windows machines with the same Kaby Lake CPUs as in the 2017 iMacs run Netflix 4K just fine. However, Apple will not support this DRM on Kaby Lake for whatever reason.

 

[elvisthebeagle]

I'm sorry to show you that Apple had made a custom i9 for the desktop. I also made this mistake when I purchased one. The Intel # for the i9 that we all see when we search the various sites is "i9-9990HK". That one has the onboard graphics. When I received my machine and 4K DRM did not work I looked at system information and NO intel graphics were listed. I did not stop there. I "googled" Apple processors i9 2019 and found that the processor in the 2019 27" iMac is called "i9-9990KF". The same CPU without the onboard graphics. It saved Apple about $60 a unit (my guess).
Only Apple laptop computers that need the onboard GPU to save energy has dual graphics. Well that is not completely correct. I found a couple of 2018 desktops that had dual graphics most likely because it was too late to redesign a CPU / GPU.
Apple (Steve Jobs) from day one wanted nothing to do with Blu Ray and or DRM protected products. Digital Rights Management Jobs refereed to DRM / Blu Ray as a "big bag of hurt". I only hurts the consumer. Now that the pubic high tech needs have changed and computer sales everywhere are declining new sources of revenue are needed. Hence: Apple TV.
I am a loyal Apple customer. Not because they are perfect. Far from. They have and still to this day do not try to be "All things to all people" as Microsoft tries to be. It's been over a decade since I even played with a Microsoft OS and the time and money I have saved is...well lots.
Apple TV will make Apple design some drivers / fixes to address these issues. Their biggest customer in Pro Computers is the Audio / Video industry. ALSO gaming and software companies are looking into the "copy protection" for their products in future.
I have a iMac Pro coming today that I should have never sent back in the first place. It is (even though it's a Late 2017 machine) lightyears ahead of the standard iMac. The T2 chip is crucial to audio, video, interaction with other Apple devices and much more functions (future compatibility) than the important security it offers. The completely redesign of the cooling, ports, speakers, camera is nothing to sneeze at. AH-CHO!....Joke.... Remember the iMac Pro will work with 8K Video. Just not protected 4K.
My 13" 2018 can handle the playing of 4k DRM material. So will your 2017 - 2018 Mac Air, MacBook Pro with a Kabylake or later with UHD onboard graphics.

Cheers!

 

[EugW]

I'm sorry to show you that Apple had made a custom i9 for the desktop. I also made this mistake when I purchased one. The Intel # for the i9 that we all see when we search the various sites is "i9-9990HK". That one has the onboard graphics. When I received my machine and 4K DRM did not work I looked at system information and NO intel graphics were listed. I did not stop there. I "googled" Apple processors i9 2019 and found that the processor in the 2019 27" iMac is called "i9-9990KF". The same CPU without the onboard graphics. It saved Apple about $60 a unit (my guess).
Only Apple laptop computers that need the onboard GPU to save energy has dual graphics. Well that is not completely correct. I found a couple of 2018 desktops that had dual graphics most likely because it was too late to redesign a CPU / GPU.
Apple (Steve Jobs) from day one wanted nothing to do with Blu Ray and or DRM protected products. Digital Rights Management Jobs refereed to DRM / Blu Ray as a "big bag of hurt". I only hurts the consumer. Now that the pubic high tech needs have changed and computer sales everywhere are declining new sources of revenue are needed. Hence: Apple TV.
I am a loyal Apple customer. Not because they are perfect. Far from. They have and still to this day do not try to be "All things to all people" as Microsoft tries to be. It's been over a decade since I even played with a Microsoft OS and the time and money I have saved is...well lots.
Apple TV will make Apple design some drivers / fixes to address these issues. Their biggest customer in Pro Computers is the Audio / Video industry. ALSO gaming and software companies are looking into the "copy protection" for their products in future.
I have a iMac Pro coming today that I should have never sent back in the first place. It is (even though it's a Late 2017 machine) lightyears ahead of the standard iMac. The T2 chip is crucial to audio, video, interaction with other Apple devices and much more functions (future compatibility) than the important security it offers. The completely redesign of the cooling, ports, speakers, camera is nothing to sneeze at. AH-CHO!....Joke.... Remember the iMac Pro will work with 8K Video. Just not protected 4K.
My 13" 2018 can handle the playing of 4k DRM material. So will your 2017 - 2018 Mac Air, MacBook Pro with a Kabylake or later with UHD onboard graphics.

Cheers!

Ah I see. I didn't realize that particular i9 iMac used this particular chip. Other 27" 5K iMacs have built-in Intel graphics as well, not just the MacBook Pros.

I suspect they'll add Vega support later for 4K DRM.

 

[Zdigital2015]

The Xeon-class CPUs in iMac Pro (also used in new/current/old Mac Pros) have never supported Intel’s QuickSync.

Just a nitpick: A few of the newer Xeons do. If it does not have a GPU then it won’t have QuickSync, but some of the recent Xeons have GPUs.

Those pesky Xeons with UHD P-Series iGPs always trip me up when they get in there...
[doublepost=1568226776][/doublepost]

I just returned a iMac Pro for the reason that it will not playback 4K HDCP 2.2 DRM HDR10 Video of any kind. It’s a simple matter that the CPU’s are outdated snd discontinued. The Graphics card will never be compatible either. You can playback this media “Netfix” on a Mac Air 2018 or later running windows 10. You will be able to playback this media with the next Mac OS “Catalina” but still need a Intel Kabylake or later CPU with ONBOARD INTEL GRAPHICS! There is no way around it. No fix, no update will change this.
The New Mac Pro will face problems also if not configured correctly. It will need AMD’s 7mm next generation Graphics card “ Vega II ” and a driver called “Adrenaline” then Widows and so on. Of course the Catalina OS will allow this to run w/o Windows 10.
I just bought a ( Student Discount ) regular old 27” iMac Loaded ( with 8gb of RAM and bought 64 GB from OWC ) and I am not going to worry about any of this for a couple off years.

P.S. If you call Apple support they will pretend that this is all new to them and make you wait for a week our longer ( I’m still waiting ) for a reply. Cheers !!!

The Intel Xeon W-2xxx Series is not discontinued at all (https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/series/125035/intel-xeon-w-processor.html). They are still actively being sold at retail (https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?d=Xeon+W), although it is mostly only available as a tray/OEM part and not as a boxed product.

 

[priitv8]

I "googled" Apple processors i9 2019 and found that the processor in the 2019 27" iMac is called "i9-9990KF". The same CPU without the onboard graphics.

Not everything on google is correct.
The one in my machine is not KF and it has the part of onboard graphics present, that is responsible for Intel Quick Sync.

 

[EugW]

Not everything on google is correct.
The one in my machine is not KF and it has the part of onboard graphics present, that is responsible for Intel Quick Sync.
View attachment 857429

Well, there we go.

 

[e1me5]

Maybe the iMacs from 2018 and with 4K resolution can pump the brightness more than the specified 500nits to the required amount and display HRD properly. Maybe Apple made its plans for HDR well before releasing them so they incorporated advance display drivers and backlighting and they are enabling them just now with the new OS release. I doubt the laptops can support HDR as they have limited power budgets to run the display and also the heat generated by the increased lighting can damage the screen.

 

[muski]

I'm not sure the 2019 iMacs support HDR either...

I can't get an HDR signal to an external LG 27UK850 HDR monitor from my 2019 27" iMac 5K Retina (i9 + Vega 48 GPU) and think it's related to the comments in this thread. I've tried both USB-C and HDMI (with the new A2119 Digital display adapter). I get 4K @ 60HZ, but it's not an HDR signal. It didn't work with a beta of Catalina either.

I'm 99% sure it's the iMac—if I use the same cables/adapter/monitor with my iPad Pro, I do get an HDR signal.

Apple says this should work: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207806

Model A2119 is the newest model of this adapter. It supports HDMI 2.0 at these resolutions and refresh rates when used with macOS Mojave 10.14.6 or later or iOS 12.4 or later. It also supports HDR video in HDR10 and Dolby Vision formats when connected to a compatible playback device and display, TV, or projector.

• Up to 1080p at 60Hz
• 3840 x 2160 at 30Hz
• 3840 x 2160 at 60Hz with these devices:
  • 15-inch MacBook Pro introduced in 2017 or later
  • Retina iMac introduced in 2017 or later
  • iMac Pro
  • iPad Pro

If I can't get this resolved, I'll probably return my 2019 iMac.

 

[cynics]

Any color space wider than SDR (rec709) is HDR including the P3 color space the iMac uses. However that doesn't seem to be what you guys are talking about...

HDR video standards such as but not limited to HDR10 and Dolby Vision like Netflix streams are more than just a a color space. White luminance, black level performance, bit depth, local display dimming. A wider color space than P3 is preferable as well since rec2020 is the color space used.

Computer displays can use the VESA DisplayHDR standard which certifies and classifies displays with "levels". Level 400, 500, 600, 1000, 1400, etc each producing a better picture than the level prior via different technologies. DisplayHDR 1000 currently being the highest certification a few monitors have.

If you were to classify the iMac in there it would be DisplayHDR 400 since it doesn't support local dimming required for DisplayHDR 500.

Not even mentioning the mess DRM implementation is, implementing the HDR calibrations and display function outside of productivity calibrations will need to be handled in a more creative and useful way.

So at the end of the day the iMac display brings the bare minimum to HDR video from streaming content providers. It is an improvement over SDR but leaves a lot to be desired. There is a lot of hate around DisplayHDR 400 already due to its lack luster implementation.

Apple will probably just do what they always do...provide a high quality solution in a elegant seamless way, not just puke out a spec like everyone else. Most people will never realize it though and just assume Apple is late to the party because (insert reason you think Apple doesn't want to sell products here)...