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Wando64

macrumors 68020
Jul 11, 2013
2,337
3,109
I think Apple needs to drop the “Pro” name of the iPad
There is nothing pro about it.

If they did so, would it make you more likely to buy one, or less?
In other words, what is the point you are trying to make?
Are we discussing semantics, or the usability of a computing tool?
Would you buy a professional drill to write emails?
Would you buy an iPad Pro to drill holes?

The argument about the name Pro, and the usability of the iPad as a professional tool for professional users, is hackneyed.
 

Kal Madda

macrumors 68020
Nov 2, 2022
2,013
1,722
It is available on the Mac, as a system setting (System Preferences>Desktop & Dock>Windows>Prefer Tabs When Opening Documents). It is a pet peeve of mine, as I work with a half dozen or so Pages documents open at a time and having one window with separate tabs is vastly more convenient than having to open a separate window for each document.
Ok, I’ve never used that, but thanks for telling me about it. 👍🏻. I guess for me, I like using separate windows in my Stages in Stage manager, and then I can use them side-by-side, and such. 👍🏻. But hopefully they add a tabbed option in the iPad version! 👍🏻
 
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Wando64

macrumors 68020
Jul 11, 2013
2,337
3,109
I'm still within the return period for my M4 11. Debating if I should return it since iPadOS looks so underwhelming.

Sounds like you don’t know what you bought it for in the first place.
Definitely return it and buy something that helps you do whatever you need to do.
 
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codeunrwolfpack

macrumors member
Jul 10, 2009
78
151
I guess that's a good soft story to help you sleep at night , 90% of this tablet will never be put to use but hey if your workflow consists of watching netflix and youtube then that's all you need right ?
The iPad Pro will sell far more than anything you will ever come up with in your life. So Apple will be sleeping far better than you ever will.
 
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steve123

macrumors 65816
Aug 26, 2007
1,155
717
I do not understand the hate directed at people who ask for a better OS for the iPad. If you like iPadOS the way it is that is great for you because it does what you want it to do. For others, it does not. Apple should be receptive to ideas for improving the OS for everyone or be prepared to allow options. Allowing someone to install macOS on an iPad should be an option that Apple supports. If you do not want macOS on your iPad then do not install it. At a minimum, Apple should enable the option to install another OS like you can on a Mac. This would help to enable Asahi Linux to add support for iPad.

My hope for the investigation underway is that at a minimum Apple will be forced to provide the alternative OS installation option on all their devices. The best outcome for everyone would be to order Apple to allow installation options and that all Apple OS be open sourced, and by inference, all MS OS be open sourced as well.

We should not be locked in.
 

Kal Madda

macrumors 68020
Nov 2, 2022
2,013
1,722
interesting how personal this topic got. people will die on a hill that ipad pros are great professional devices without ever addressing the actual gripes.

guys it's okay to love a device and hope it can be better. it's totally possible stance to take.
Actually, I have never argued that iPadOS can’t be improved. What I have argued for is improving iPadOS rather than replacing iPadOS with macOS. I also don’t care for the arrogance of some who insist that “real professionals” can’t use an iPad or iPadOS, as if the professionals who do such as myself are not professionals…
 

ProbablyDylan

macrumors 68000
Mar 26, 2024
1,517
2,984
Los Angeles
Actually, I have never argued that iPadOS can’t be improved. What I have argued for is improving iPadOS rather than replacing iPadOS with macOS. I also don’t care for the arrogance of some who insist that “real professionals” can’t use an iPad or iPadOS, as if the professionals who do such as myself are not professionals…

I agree. There are definitely ways to improve iPadOS that are not simply replacing it wholesale with MacOS.
 
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Kal Madda

macrumors 68020
Nov 2, 2022
2,013
1,722
I do not understand the hate directed at people who ask for a better OS for the iPad. If you like iPadOS the way it is that is great for you because it does what you want it to do. For others, it does not. Apple should be receptive to ideas for improving the OS for everyone or be prepared to allow options. Allowing someone to install macOS on an iPad should be an option that Apple supports. If you do not want macOS on your iPad then do not install it. At a minimum, Apple should enable the option to install another OS like you can on a Mac. This would help to enable Asahi Linux to add support for iPad.

My hope for the investigation underway is that at a minimum Apple will be forced to provide the alternative OS installation option on all their devices. The best outcome for everyone would be to order Apple to allow installation options and that all Apple OS be open sourced, and by inference, all MS OS be open sourced as well.

We should not be locked in.
To clarify, I A. only angry reacted because there’s no disagree button, and B. I mainly disagree with the last part of your comment. I am fine with improving iPadOS for more people. The key to me is improving iPadOS, not replacing it with macOS. What I don’t want is for iPads shipping with macOS installed on them rather than iPadOS. This would be detrimental to those of us who prefer iPadOS. And it would be a horrible experience for using macOS on a tablet, nothing is scaled properly for touch interaction. I’m not opposed to iPadOS supporting VMs though. But the day Apple starts supporting native installation of macOS on non-Macs (which doesn’t even make sense with the naming convention since it’s literally in the name), I feel that would be a signal that Apple had given up on improving iPadOS, which obviously would harm those of us who prefer iPadOS over macOS.

What I also definitley oppose is government forcing companies to offer, not-offer, or change the services they offer like what you’re advocating for. As an American Conservative, that is well outside the proper jurisdiction of government authority.
 

FrozenDarkness

macrumors 68000
Mar 21, 2009
1,828
1,124
Actually, I have never argued that iPadOS can’t be improved. What I have argued for is improving iPadOS rather than replacing iPadOS with macOS. I also don’t care for the arrogance of some who insist that “real professionals” can’t use an iPad or iPadOS, as if the professionals who do such as myself are not professionals…
i've been on this topic for at least 10 pages now. There's like one person that asked to replace macos with ipados.
 

Abazigal

Contributor
Jul 18, 2011
20,392
23,887
Singapore
I do not understand the hate directed at people who ask for a better OS for the iPad. If you like iPadOS the way it is that is great for you because it does what you want it to do. For others, it does not. Apple should be receptive to ideas for improving the OS for everyone or be prepared to allow options. Allowing someone to install macOS on an iPad should be an option that Apple supports. If you do not want macOS on your iPad then do not install it. At a minimum, Apple should enable the option to install another OS like you can on a Mac. This would help to enable Asahi Linux to add support for iPad.

My hope for the investigation underway is that at a minimum Apple will be forced to provide the alternative OS installation option on all their devices. The best outcome for everyone would be to order Apple to allow installation options and that all Apple OS be open sourced, and by inference, all MS OS be open sourced as well.

We should not be locked in.

You are not going to make the iPad better by giving it the ability to run macOS.
 
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Kal Madda

macrumors 68020
Nov 2, 2022
2,013
1,722
i've been on this topic for at least 10 pages now. There's like one person that asked to replace macos with ipados.
And there have been tons of people who have argued here that iPadOS isn’t a “real OS”, that “real professionals” can’t use iPadOS (apparently professionals such as myself who use an iPad for their workflow are “fake professionals”?), that Apple’s somehow cheating people, that the iPad is a dying product, etc. All of those ideas I oppose and disagree with.
 

FrozenDarkness

macrumors 68000
Mar 21, 2009
1,828
1,124
And there have been tons of people who have argued here that iPadOS isn’t a “real OS”, that “real professionals” can’t use iPadOS (apparently professionals such as myself who use an iPad for their workflow are “fake professionals”?), that Apple’s somehow cheating people, that the iPad is a dying product, etc. All of those ideas I oppose and disagree with.
nobody said ipad is a dying product. nobody said apple's cheating people. nobody said real professionals can't use ipados. you are literally making stuff out of thin air.

what we said is, professionals want more out of their OS. tell me mr. professional, do you do things like say, move files in your professional life? Do you, mr. professional, backup your computer in your day to day life? Do you, mr professional, maybe open up multiple instances of software in your day to day life? Do you, mr. professional, use an external monitor and expect things to open in your external monitor without issues? Do you, mr. professional, say use a mouse and maybe expect the back button to work in your day to day life without issue?

i didn't realize these were OUTRAGEOUS asks. truly no professionals do those things.

maybe resize windows without things breaking? truly just groundbreaking, old school professional stuff.
 
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steve123

macrumors 65816
Aug 26, 2007
1,155
717
The key to me is improving iPadOS, not replacing it with macOS. What I don’t want is for iPads shipping with macOS installed on them rather than iPadOS. This would be detrimental to those of us who prefer iPadOS. And it would be a horrible experience for using macOS on a tabl
I think we mostly agree. You find iPadOS suitable for your use case and that is great for you. Someone else might prefer a more macOS like experience and I suggest that should be an option. iPadOS should be the default "out of the box" OS and macOS should be an option. And if Apple does not want to support macOS on an iPad then at least provide the option to install an OS froma third party. This should be the case for the iPhone as well.
 

Kal Madda

macrumors 68020
Nov 2, 2022
2,013
1,722
nobody said ipad is a dying product. nobody said apple's cheating people. nobody said real professionals can't use ipados. you are literally making stuff out of thin air.

what we said is, professionals want more out of their OS. tell me mr. professional, do you do things like say, move files in your professional life? Do you, mr. professional, backup your computer in your day to day life? Do you, mr professional, maybe open up multiple instances of software in your day to day life? Do you, mr. professional, use an external monitor and expect things to open in your external monitor without issues? Do you, mr. professional, say use a mouse and maybe expect the back button to work in your day to day life without issue?

i didn't realize these were OUTRAGEOUS asks. truly no professionals do those things.

maybe resize windows without things breaking? truly just groundbreaking, old school professional stuff.
Have you been reading the same form thread I have? Just look back through the pages of comments here. You have several people complaining about iPadOS, claiming that the M chips are overkill for the iPad because the iPads don’t run macOS, etc. I did get confused because the “the iPad is a dying product” comment was in a different thread, but the other things I cited have definitely been argued in this thread…

PS. Yes, I move files all the time just fine in the Files app on my iPad, just like I have in the Finder app on macOS. And yes, I backup my computer. I also open multiple instances of software. I use external monitors. I do all of these things without issue on my iPad. You apparently don’t like how these things work on iPadOS. That’s okay, I’m not forcing you to use an iPad. You can use a Mac as much as you want. I like the iPad because it is better for my workflow than a Mac. You don’t have to. You can use whatever you want. And as I have said repeatedly in this thread, I am all for adding more features in iPadOS that would benefit people who don’t find iPadOS as well-suited for their use-cases yet. And the whole “mr. professional“ thing just comes off as childish…
 
Last edited:

Rafterman

Contributor
Apr 23, 2010
7,267
8,809
Better at being useless as a touch-only device you mean. Nothing in macOS is properly scaled for touch interaction. So you would have to use the iPad with a keyboard and trackpad 24/7. Better to just improve iPadOS.

I hear the arguments against that for Windows and touch, and that's bull. You can select menus and options perfectly fine, everything's big enough. You don't need giant elements to use a touchscreen.

And improve iPadOS? How? By keep adding things until it becomes...MacOS? Might as well just use MacOS.
 

Kal Madda

macrumors 68020
Nov 2, 2022
2,013
1,722
I hear the arguments against that for Windows and touch, and that's bull. You can select menus and options perfectly fine, everything's big enough. You don't need giant elements to use a touchscreen.

And improve iPadOS? How? By keep adding things until it becomes...MacOS? Might as well just use MacOS.
And Windows has much bigger buttons than macOS. Apple would have to scale macOS to basically be similar to iPadOS to make it well touch-optimized like iPadOS already is. Look how much screen space Windows wastes on simple things like the windowing buttons. The traffic light buttons would have to be replaced with far larger and clunkier buttons to make them touch optimized. And no, I don’t think improving iPadOS equals resulting in macOS. MacOS has loads of legacy thinking and code that Apple won’t be able to drop anytime soon because too many niche people expect it too stick around. iPadOS is free from these limits. Apple can innovate with iPadOS. With macOS, it will likely always retain a Terminal app, because it’s always had one. But 99.9% of modern computer users never use a Terminal. They don’t know what a Terminal is. So why include it in a modern OS? MacOS will likely always retain legacy and antiquated things like this, while iPadOS will likely always be far more modern in its thinking.
 

Rafterman

Contributor
Apr 23, 2010
7,267
8,809
And Windows has much bigger buttons than macOS. Apple would have to scale macOS to basically be similar to iPadOS to make it well touch-optimized like iPadOS already is. Look how much screen space Windows wastes on simple things like the windowing buttons. The traffic light buttons would have to be replaced with far larger and clunkier buttons to make them touch optimized. And no, I don’t think improving iPadOS equals resulting in macOS. MacOS has loads of legacy thinking and code that Apple won’t be able to drop anytime soon because too many niche people expect it too stick around. iPadOS is free from these limits. Apple can innovate with iPadOS. With macOS, it will likely always retain a Terminal app, because it’s always had one. But 99.9% of modern computer users never use a Terminal. They don’t know what a Terminal is. So why include it in a modern OS? MacOS will likely always retain legacy and antiquated things like this, while iPadOS will likely always be far more modern in its thinking.

No one said it would take one year or one version. But how long has Apple had to work on making an iPad OS worthy of the hardware? They've been screwing around for years, to the point of stubbornness. Right now, all iPad is, is a big phone.
 

Kal Madda

macrumors 68020
Nov 2, 2022
2,013
1,722
No one said it would take one year or one version. But how long has Apple had to work on making an iPad OS worthy of the hardware? They've been screwing around for years, to the point of stubbornness. Right now, all iPad is, is a big phone.
That’s not even remotely true. My iPad can do a lot of things that my iPhone can’t. The “iPad is just a big phone” argument is outdated…
 

Rafterman

Contributor
Apr 23, 2010
7,267
8,809
That’s not even remotely true. My iPad can do a lot of things that my iPhone can’t. The “iPad is just a big phone” argument is outdated…

The bigger screen makes that true. Not anything iPadOS is doing. If you ran iPadOS on a phone, could you tell the difference between that and iOS?

I never seen so many people argue for less capability.
 
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Kal Madda

macrumors 68020
Nov 2, 2022
2,013
1,722
The bigger screen makes that true. Not anything iPadOS is doing. If you ran iPadOS on a phone, could you tell the difference between that and iOS?

I never seen so many people argue for less capability.
It’s not just the bigger screen. I cannot plug my iPhone into an external desktop monitor and use it like a desktop. I can do that with iPadOS. I can’t use several of the apps I regularly use on my iPad on my iPhone because they don’t exist on iOS, but do on iPadOS. It doesn’t magnetize to a keyboard and trackpad. I cannot use an Apple Pencil on my iPhone. So no, the iPad is not just a big iPhone.
 
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