Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

no m-audio $99 keyboards

Why I recomend the OZone by M-Audio

Originally posted by mtorbin
The real reason we all want to play with GarageBand is:
1) The MIDI capabillities -- insane for the price!
2) You can plug your guitar into an audio jack on the computer and record without ANYTHING in between (such as an amp; saving $99 to $449).

That is why I suggest the M-Audio OZone (List $300; discount $225):
It's smaller than the M-Audio 44 key model Apple is selling (25 keys to be exact), but, it has an Octave Shifter, so do you really need that many keys?
I can fit both hands on the keyboard, but if you're looking to record MIDI classical tracks, then you might want to go to the next model UP for a full keyboard.

The OZone comes with the usual toys:
- Pitch Wheel
- Modulation Wheel
- Full Size, Pressure Sensitive Keys

However, there are also a number of other things that make this a very useful gadget for those of you who need a compact, MIDI keyboard on steroids:
On the back you have:
- MIDI out for USB and Keyboard
- 1/4 Sustain Jack
- 1/4 Headphone Jack
- 1/4 Stereo Out Jack
- 1/4 Line In
- XLR Mic In
- Phantom Power
On the top you have:
- 8 Pan Knobs (don't ask, I haven't gotten that far yet)
- Gain Knob
- Headphone Knob
The thing you should focus on is the:
• 1/4 Line IN and the
• XLR Mic IN.
All you have to do is plug your guitar in one jack and your Mic in the other.
The OZone connects to your Mac via USB, so you're all set. Truly plug and play.

The real piece that your buying here is portability...the OZone is just over a foot long is very attractive, especially when you consider all the other capabilities.

The street price at $225 is a little more than double that of the Apple keyboard, but when you consider that if you bought:

$ 99 Apple M-Audio Keyboard
$ 80 1/4" Guitar Adapter
$179 TOTAL

$225 M-Audio OZone - with everything!

Matt
Click to expand...
Matt makes a good point about moving UP from the Apple M-Audio Keyboard -
THINK AHEAD, folks!
The KB comparison harkens to the age old Apple arguments over
Whether to get a simple G4 iBook OR a PowerBook?
• Price ($1000 difference); if you go cheap, how long before you yearn for more?
• Capability (do you need a SuperDrive, FW800, PCMCIA port, larger RAM, backlit KB, etc.)
• Size (12", 14", 15" or 17")

For GarageBand enthusiasts, think ahead a few years about that KB's future use:
• Garage - with the BAND, including a Guitar picker and sultry Singer, or
• Studio - with lots of jacks & plugs, mixing soundtracks
• Study/Bedroom - just a lonely keyboard solo and NO BAND

Lots of guys are not into the BAND scene and will never team up with other musicians or a singer, so the Apple M-Audio Keyboard is PERFECT!

But, if you are a social musician, a BAND person, or even a serious Studio geek, plan ahead and consider the other M-Audio offerings within the range of your pocketbook. Visit your local Guitar Store, and take along your 'BOOK to plug in.

Another thing to consider is GROWTH. When I got my G4 DP 1GHz with a SuperDrive, I'd never burned a DVD before, or edited a movie digitally, but it didn't make sense to downgrade to a ComboDrive, I wanted to grow & improve my capabilities. Can't do that with a Combo.
And, you can't grow very much with the basic Apple M-Audio Keyboard.

So, CHALLENGE yourself to intigrate other artists into a BAND sound for your Mac projects, which you can do more easily with a KB that is more capable than the basic M-Audio model offered by Apple. Then again, for $99 - solo is also cool! (Hell's bells, I can't play a lick of music, so I'm stuck with loops.)

If you do a search for places to buy M-Audio Keyboards, you will find a wild mix of capability costing from $139 to just over $500. Compare them to the Apple KB, then buy what's right for YOU! :cool:
 
Thank God someone saw my point. I was afraid there for a second that everyone missed my point.

And BTW, M-Audio is not the only MIDI controller manufacturer. There are tons of others out there. This is just ONE SOLUTION.

- MT
 
M-Audio not the only MIDI solution...

Originally posted by mtorbin
Thank God someone saw my point. I was afraid there for a second that everyone missed it.
And BTW, M-Audio is not the only MIDI controller manufacturer.
There are tons of others out there. This is just ONE SOLUTION.
Click to expand...
Matt, have you ever looked at the super Keyboards (Yamaha?) on sale at COSTCO? Are they MIDI capable? Some look 88 key.

Maybe someone should take an iBook or PB in with them to see if they work on Macs. (MIDI cable, etc.?)

VOLUNTEER: Any talent out there with a little curiosity willing to check out the keyboards at COSTCO (or, anywhere else) for us and report back? I see the basis for a MacAddict review brewing up here. ;)

My father played piano/theater organ by ear (lazy about reading music, except cheat sheets) so we always had a Baldwin grand piano (hell to keep tuned) or a 3 manual CONN Organ with a Leslie speaker in the house. Lots of music. Frankly, I think he would have loved to play on one of these new Yamaha electronic keyboards for the tactile response and excellent sound. And if he were still living, he'd love GarageBand on a Mac because it is miles beyond the little switches he had on an extra box that added drum tempo and even real chimes. Now all this stuff is in a pratically free (part of iLife) software program, and a $99 CD chuck full of wonderful extras. I bet he could have done some slick orchestrations as accompanyment to his keyboard for some great pop music. He was always writing new music and playing with arrangements of it. I miss that.

Hope Apple adds more instruments to the GarageBand collection. :)
 
Re: Why I recomend the OZone by M-Audio

Originally posted by MacRAND
Matt makes a good point about moving UP from the Apple M-Audio Keyboard -
THINK AHEAD, folks!


Compare them to the Apple KB, then buy what's right for YOU! :cool:
Click to expand...

On that basis, my musical ambitions are way above my talent, so I better send my Apple keyboard back and buy a stick and a tin lid.
 
macRand,

No, I haven't looked at those keyboards, but there's something that we all have to keep in mind no matter WHAT keyboard we buy. The whole reason that this keyboard is such hot news is because it's an actual MIDI controller (via USB). By that I mean it has the following:

1) Pitch Wheel
2) Modulation Wheel
3) Pressure Sensitive Keys
4) USB Interface

These are things that enhance the way the note is recorded via MIDI.

If the keyboard does not have these three things, then you might as well use the digital keyboard that comes with GB.

Also, for those of you who are underestimating the value of the analog recording, consider this:

The lowest costing QUALITY track recorder is easily at $200.... and that's not even digital. It doesn't get much better than this.

- MT
 
Why I recomend the OZone by M-Audio

Originally posted by billyboy
On that basis, my musical ambitions are way above my talent, so I better send my Apple keyboard back and buy a stick and a tin lid.
Click to expand...
BillyBoy, at least you have TALENT. Healthy ambition cannot help but nurture talent.

Hey, I can't read music nor play an instrument. Forget the tin lid, go for the Apple KB and have fun musically. I envy you. BTW, the tin lid is mine and I'm still learning.

Has anyone compared GarageBand with Soundtrack that is now part of FinalCut Pro4?

I hear there are advantages to GarageBand not found in Soundtrack, what are they?

How do Apple's audio/sound programs compare to Smartsound's SonicFire and entry level Maestro which is used for adding music to iMovie soundtracks?

Are the plug-ins, loops, etc. in each of these programs interchangeable?

SIDE NOTE: As everyone knows, Apple has licensed (purchased?) the name GarageBand from owners - www.GarageBand.com who still have the right to use the name for their website.
But, did you know that if you type in GarbageBand instead, the GarageBand site still comes up?

MIDI THANKS to MTorbin for explaining the USB/MIDI interface for Mac and importance of the MIDI controller incorporated into M-Audio keyboards, including the $99 Apple offering, which is a good deal.
You is our expert, dude :cool: Word!
 
Wow, where do I begin?

Ok, I guess I can begin with what I know which is Final Cut Pro. I've used Soundtrack which, to me, is more like Acid Pro. You add your loops and have fun. I do not believe that you can play INTO SoundTrack like you can with GB (Oops, I take that back. You CAN play in but I'm not sure that Soundtrack will act as a sound module like GB does if you're only using a MIDI controller).

I just noticed that Soundtrack also has a "Loop Utility" which, if I understand exactly what it does, is a really killer feature for those of us who have some poorly recorded audiio files (as in you can trip the clip to where you want it to loop).

GB is more like MOTU's Digital Performer, as in you can actually record live music that you play in. It totally handles MIDI as well as AIFF audio files and can create "songs" with combinations of the two.

If I had to choose one or the other, part or me right now would choose GB because I believe that it has more versitility.

Please understand that I haven't used Soundtrack nearly as much as GB, so what I'm saying here is speculation. I'd love to hear what others are saying on the subject.

- MT
 
For some of us a basic keyboard is enough.

THIS IS NOT A FLAME. I seriously and non flamingly (I know that's not a word) want to know what I would be missing out on. In simple English please.

mtorbin - for some of us the $99 keyboard is going to be enough. And a 29 key keyboard isn't going to be enough. I want to play melody and chords at the same time. I'm thinking I might need a 61 key keyboard because 49 might not be enough. There is a reason why a piano has 88 keys.

Yes. I want to use it basically as a piano. I don't want to do one hand at a time or squeeze my fingers in.

But just in case. Instead of just telling us that we are going to be missing things. Tell us IN PLAIN ENGLISH what we will be missing if we don't get a higher end keyboard. Ignore for now the ability to plug in a guitar or microphone. Just the keyboard part. What would we be missing.

Just so you know. I've never played piano before and want to learn with both hands at the same time.
 
For some a basic keyboard is enough when learning how to play a piano.

Originally posted by Sabon
I'm thinking I might need a 61 key keyboard because 49 might not be enough.
There is a reason why a piano has 88 keys.
What would we be missing?
Just so you know.
I've never played piano before and want to learn with both hands at the same time.
Click to expand...

Not to steal MTorbin's flaming thunder, but since you have "never played a piano before", isn't this a question you should first ask the person who is going to teach you how to play? :)

Until you do learn to play, how is anyone going to know what you can do with 29, 44, 49, 54, 61 or 88 keys, while shifting octives to play with one or both hands at the same time?

Or, how can you possibly evaluate advice from someone who does play but is not your Teacher?

Otherwise, Sabon seems to know what he is talking about.

After you ask your Teacher, please share that recommendation with us.

Yes, I believe you when you say "there is a reason a piano has 88 keys", and I have often wondered why.
Please, tell us what is that reason, Sabon? Why not 80 or 96?

My favorite piano composition is the "Prelude in C sharp minor" by Sergei Rachmaninoff, which pleased my dad, who majored in music as a concert pianist. He once met Rachmaninoff after a live concert and discovered firsthand (no pun intended) that Steinway & Sons piano company of New York had built a very special piano for Rachmaninoff that had to do with a rather unique keyboard.
Would anyone happen to know what made Rachmaninoff's piano so special? :confused: (It's ok to guess.)

(This had nothing to do with Henry Engelhard Steinway introducing a novel string arrangement in 1855 called the overstrung scale.)

Hint: Though a giant in the performing arts, Sergei was a man of short stature; and, he always wore white cotton gloves before and after a performance.

WAS THAT FUN, OR WHAT? :p Want more?

Factoid: Rachmaninoff was fond of showing off for friends by playing elaborate compositions which never used more than 36 keys on the entire keyboard.
Can anyone guess which keys? (Limit your answer to "1" word.)

Observe: While an octave is 8, 36 is
11 keys more than your "25 key keyboard", MTorbin, and
25 keys less than your "61 key keyboard", Sabon.

(Did you do the Math? Simple!) Give up? :D
 
Can we go easy on the bold text? It's a notch under shouting in all caps and seems to me to be unnecessary.

If your points are good, you don't need bold faced words to make them for you. ;)
 
Originally posted by jigglyjon
i just wanted a cheap keyboard:)
Click to expand...
heh, exactly, the 49e is only £75 (inc. delivery) which me and my dad are splitting (only £37.50 each), we don't need anything fancy. He may want to put his guitar trough it at sometime, if he does, then we'll get something when the time comes.
 
Re: For some of us a basic keyboard is enough.

Originally posted by Sabon
I want to use it basically as a piano. I don't want to do one hand at a time or squeeze my fingers in.
Click to expand...

I can tell you from personal experience, that if you want to use it just to learn to play, you DO NOT need all 88 keys. What you need is FULL SIZE KEYS. 44 Keys is more than enough, trust me.

- MT
 
Ok, Let's Get Control Here

OK gang, my whole point in discussin this was simply to tell you that there are other options out there, so I guess let's cut to the hard questions (and some facts) and please understand this is ONLY my opinion:

Q: Is the $99 Keyboard offered by M-Audio a Decent Value?
A: I do NOT believe in my opinion that the keyboard is a spectacular deal. I believe that it will suffice until you grow tired of it or until your needs grows. I DO believe that it will do everything that Apple says it will do, just on a very consumer level. Please note however that this keyboard will NOT allow you to do anything BUT MIDI (as in NO audio).

Q: Do you have to purchase a keyboard by M-Audio or will any MIDI keyboard work?
A: Any MIDI keyboard will work, but if you don't want to have to purchase a MIDI interface, then you'll have to find one that has a USB port.

Q: What do I have to do in order to play my guitar / bass / vocal mic into GB?
A: You must get an adapter much like the one they offer at Apple or you can buy a device that has this built in (thus my suggestion of the OZone).

Q: Is the keyboard, the OZone, something that will work for everyone?
A: No, of course not. There are people who just want a simple controller that has no frills and for that the $99 keyboard works WELL ENOLUGH. There are also people who need very pro tools and for that they need something MUCH better then the OZone.

Q:What is MIDI and what does it stand for?
A: MIDI stands for Musical Instrument Digital Interface. It is a standard that was developed a long time ago (I used to know by who by I forgot) so that digital instruments could communicate to one another. When you play MIDI into a computer, you are not recording sound, you are recording "actions" on a timeline. The computer then knows to "play" those actions (and sometimes with extra information such as how hard the note was hit, called an attack, and where the note was played on that timeline) at certain times on the timeline.

Q: What is General MIDI?
A: General MIDI is a standard that says something to the effect of "all pianos sounds will be numbers X through Y and all drums sounds will be only on sound Z..." What this does is that if you send a MIDI song to your friend and they don't have the same sounds as you, the song will GENERALLY sound the same (as in, the piano you used might not be the exact same, but it will be a piano sound). GarageBand makes use of General MIDI.

I hope this clears up some confusion. If there's anything else I can answer, please let me know.

- MT
 
Good start MacRand but ...

MacRand and mtorbin. I'd still seriously like to know, besides audio input and output, what keyboard wise, us beginners will miss out on with the basic keyboard.

Ok. It sounds like I only need 49 keys or I'll bypass the 61 (or more) keyboards. That I got.

But if I'm just going to be trying to play songs like as if it were a piano. What does the medium and high end keyboards have that people like me would wish we had? I'm serious about this and other than the number of keys this question hasn't been answered yet.

So far I only know that I need more keys than the oZone and not more than 49.

I don't have a teacher. I'm just going to use my mediocre memory from four years of band about 30 years ago playing trombone. I do remember enough about notes and I'm buying a something I saw on PBS for learning how to play piano.

I will be playing songs from song books like the Beatles complete song book, at least to start. Depending on how it goes I'll just have to see (or hear).

So again. I'll be getting a 49 key keyboard no matter what level. Other than audio in/out what piano type features will I be missing out on with the basic keyboard?

These are serious questions. Thanks in advance for your answers.
 
What You Need To Know About Keyboards

Sabon,

There is one thing that the higher end keyboards have that the lower end keyboards don't. It's called weighted keys. What this means is that the keys will actually feel like they are wood with ivory coatings (thus like a real piano).

Even the OZone doesn't have fully weighted keys, but then again, that's not something that will effect your playing. It will only affect your ENJOYMENT of your playing.

Most, if not all decent MIDI controllers will have the big three that I mentioned earlier.

As far as getting the full 88 keys PLUS these options, well, according to my buddy Tim (who sold me the OZone and is also one of the most talented keyboardists I know, "decent" will cost you roughly $500.

As far as the Beatles go, that music was written, mostly, for piano, which has the full 88 keys. You may have to make some adjustments to really play EVERYTHING that they have to offer.

- MT
 
Steinway & Rachmaninoff's Steinway piano

Is no one going to even guess: :confused:

What made Rachmaninoff's Steinway piano so special? :)
or
Exactly which 36 keys out of the entire piano keyboard of 88 would Rachmaninoff use when showing off for friends? :D

MTorbin, I bet you know. ;)
Sabon, I bet you are smart enough to either figure it out or at least make a good guess. :p

The answer is either really obvious :rolleyes: or sufficient clues were given.
Please, somebody guess. :( Humor me.
 
re

Seems to me like it would probably have to be just the black keys, seeing as how there are 36 of 'em on a full size piano. Changing subjects though, I think if you're gonna be trying to play full songs (from start to finish), 49 keys won't be enough in most circumstances (am I wrong about this?). I just bought m-audio's Radium61, (as the name implies, it has 61 keys). The 61 isn't enough for all songs, but I can play most things on it ok. Plus it's got a button for shifting up or down up to three octaves, so as long as the song doesn't span more than 5 octaves i'm ok. For me, 61 keys is "almost enough", and 49 keys would just get ridiculous. Of course I was looking for something I could play songs on from start to finish, which it looks like isn't what everyone is going for. The radium61 runs about $200 new, so about twice as much as the keystation 49e. Its got a whole bunch of knobs and sliders that are probably useful too (haven't really played around with em yet). I seems ridiculous to compare it to the ozone, because they serve two different purposes. Anywho, there's my 2 cents, hope it helps someone.

-Ezra
 
I thought there would be something more than we would be missing.

Thanks mtorbin, MacRand, and Elevin for your answers.

mtorbin - that would be cool to have an electronic keyboard that felt like real piano keys. Hmmm, I really liked your answer about the song books. Now I'm leaning more to the 61 key keyboard.

Elevin - I'll agree with you that it only has the black keys. Sounds like a great answer to me. And I like your answer about the 61 key keyboards too. I'm not ready to plunk down $500 yet. If I stick with it I'll move up.

I did expect to find out more about what I'd be missing by not buying something other than a low end keyboard. I guess all those other options are for controlling sounds and such with GarageBand takes care of any (at least I think it does).
 
Here's what I think the basic differences are:
Keystation49e Vs Radium61: Radium has more keys (Completely necessary in my book!) and it has 8 knobs and sliders (nice extras, but I really don't NEED them). Besides that they look to be the same.

Radium VS Ozone: Radium agains has more keys (for this reason I, personally, couldn't even consider the ozone). The Ozone has some knobs like the Radium61.
As mtorbin mentioned, the Ozone has some other cool stuff:
- 1/4 Sustain Jack
- 1/4 Headphone Jack
- 1/4 Stereo Out Jack
- 1/4 Line In
- XLR Mic In
I don't need these, cause I'm just playing the piano. I don't plan on plugging in a mic or a guitar. You pay extra for these. If you need that interface but want a bigger keyboard, just buy the bigger keyboard and get a seperate interface for that other stuff. Sabon- It sounds like all you're looking for is a keyboard to play. I'd tell you to get the Radium61. It's really a nice little keyboard. The Ozone is right for some people, but it doesn't fit your needs. And since 49 keys aren't enough to play through most songs, the logical step up is 61.

-Ezra
 
Elevin - actually both piano and guitar...

Elevin - great post!!!

Actually I'm going to learn both Piano and guitar. But I didn't want to confuse anyone by bringing both into the same equation. Too many people would have thought that the oZone would be best for me, not realizing that the lack of enough keys rules out the oZone. Now if there were an oZone with 61 (or 88) keys that would be different.

I believe you are right about the Radium61 being the best option for me with a separate 1/4" audio to USB controller for microphone and guitar.

Just a note for anyone that might be curious. I'm not going to be trying to learn how to play classical music. There is a way to learn how to play called "fakey" which uses chord symbols like for a guitar for the left hand of the piano player. Check out this link - http://www.scottthepianoguy.com/index.php?current=home . This is pretty much for recreational use only. At least to start with.
 
This is what it says about learning to play the piano.

NOTE: I do NOT have any financial connection or any other connection to this other than seeing him on PBS and that I'm buying his book. I do not know the guy nor does he know me. I'm just putting this here in case someone else wants to learn non classical piano.

From his site:

Play Piano in a Flash! Book #16133

For less than the cost of one private piano lesson, this book will provide readers with years of musical enjoyment. If truth be known, there is another way to learn how to play piano rather than going to weekly lessons and spending thousands of dollars in the process.

The secret is learning to play the way the pros play. Learning to play in that style is enormously simpler than traditional classical piano lessons. Even better, it takes an absolute minimum amount of note reading ability.

Best of all, your tour guide for this adventure, Scott Houston, forces you to have fun along the way!

Is this book going to prepare the reader for a career as a concert pianist? Absolutely not!

However, if you simply want to play some piano for the simple goal of enjoying yourself, then get ready to knock a lifelong dream from your "to-do" list. Have fun!

Details

Weight:Ê
0.60 lbs

Price:
$ 12.95 (CAN$ 17.62)
 
Two thing's I'd like to mention, if you just want to plug your guitar in your Mac you don't need to spend $80, I spent £1 on a 1/4 to 1/8 Mic adapter, that's all I needed.

Also if you really are not going to learn the Piano and just want a way to play the software instruments in GarageBand, get a free little program called MidiKeys, no setup needed, just make it appear always on top and click on it to be in focus and away you go, it's enough to do basic stuff using your QWERTY keyboard.
 
What about those 61key MIDI Keyboards they have at radioshack, how are those?

And the 49key mini keyboards also, how much smaller are mini keys compared to regular keys?
 
I got REALLY lucky.

I got REALLY lucky. I went to Guitar Center on Westlake Ave in Seattle to get my guitar fixed (replace audio jack that's busted) and am having them do a tune-up on it too. About $85 total with new strings.

Anyway, while I was there I went and checked out the keyboards and saw an Evolution MK-361C. MSRP is $299. Their price was $239. But they didn't have any new unopened of these. Just one display model and one that had been returned.

I told them (honestly) that I wasn't extremely comfortable taking home a model that had already been opened. The people that brought it back could have dropped it or something and it might not work right.

They told me they could give me a discount. How about $179 and change including tax. If it didn't work. Just bring it back and they would find an unopened one and I could exchange it.

Needless to say I bought it, brought it home, turned on GarageBand, plugged the USB cable to the keyboard and my iMac and it worked instantly without installing any drivers or anything. COOL!

I grabbed a Beatles song book that I've had and with an hour was able to plunk out the melody of one song and even play a few chords. I still suck. What do you expect for just under an hour. But I'm on my way...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back