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CWallace

macrumors G5
Aug 17, 2007
12,533
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Seattle, WA
I think the Titan Ridge controller (introduced in the Macbook Pro 15" 2018 and 16" 2019, and all iMac 2019 models, but not on the iMac Pro 2017 curiously) is something like $10-15 (and they use a SKU that allows 2 ports off a single TB3 controller) but its the lack of available PCIe lanes after connecting up a GPU that causes Apple the problem on the non-Pro iMac. Each Titan Ridge controller that Apple use splits 4 lanes across 2 ports. Obviously there's another good reason for the iMac Pro to get an update to include Titan Ridge on its Thunderbolt ports!

Titan Ridge was announced in 2018 so it was not available when Apple was designing / building the iMac Pro. I fully expect the next update (should it happen) will have Titan Ridge.


Are the proper Xeon's and other chips available? If so and if they don't update it this year, I think it's dead. I mean, I think it's dead anyway, although I can see why some hold out hope.

The current iMac Pro uses the W-2100 series Xeon CPU and Intel announced the W-2200 in October so a new CPU is/will be available for a 2020 refresh if Apple so chooses to do said refresh.
 
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canyelles

macrumors member
Nov 8, 2011
71
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Sublunar, thank you very much for your explanation but I am still a little confused.

The MacBook pro has 4 TB3 ports but surely what you say about the iMac applies to the MacBook Pro as well

Also, what does this mean for future iMacs? What does it take for a future iMac to have 4 TB3 ports? Are upcoming Intel CPUs able to enable Apple to add 4 TB3 ports to the iMac?
 

Zdigital2015

macrumors 601
Jul 14, 2015
4,144
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East Coast, United States
Sublunar, thank you very much for your explanation but I am still a little confused.

The MacBook pro has 4 TB3 ports but surely what you say about the iMac applies to the MacBook Pro as well

Also, what does this mean for future iMacs? What does it take for a future iMac to have 4 TB3 ports? Are upcoming Intel CPUs able to enable Apple to add 4 TB3 ports to the iMac?
No, the 15” MacBook Pro only has x8 PCIe 3.0 lanes off the CPU dedicated to the GPU and the other x8 lanes (x4, x4) for the two Thunderbolt 3 controllers. Apple runs the SSD storage at x4 PCIe 3.0 through the Intel PCH “chipset” which connects to the DMI 3.0 bus and then the CPU. The DMI 3.0 bus is the limiting factor there, which is why Apple only hangs the SSD and a single set of Thunderbolt 3 ports off the PCH on the iMac.

intel has given zero indication that it will add any more PCIe lanes to their consumer CPUs and probably cannot without adding making the CPU package bigger. Even though Comet Lake is moving to LGA-1200 that’s still only 41 pins more than Coffee Lake and is most likely voltage and signal related.

The PCH (Z390) has plenty of PCIe lanes (x22), however, the DMI 3.0 bus is equivalent to an x4 PCIe 3.0 connection, which makes for a huge bottleneck and crap balance in a system configured will everything running through the PCH.Even PC motherboard OEMs try to balance their systems a bit, but this all on Intel. If you want more Thunderbolt 3 ports and/or more PCIe lanes off the CPU, you must be a Pro in their mind and should buy a Xeon or a Core-X series at a higher cost.
 

Glockworkorange

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No, the 15” MacBook Pro only has x8 PCIe 3.0 lanes off the CPU dedicated to the GPU and the other x8 lanes (x4, x4) for the two Thunderbolt 3 controllers. Apple runs the SSD storage at x4 PCIe 3.0 through the Intel PCH “chipset” which connects to the DMI 3.0 bus and then the CPU. The DMI 3.0 bus is the limiting factor there, which is why Apple only hangs the SSD and a single set of Thunderbolt 3 ports off the PCH on the iMac.

intel has given zero indication that it will add any more PCIe lanes to their consumer CPUs and probably cannot without adding making the CPU package bigger. Even though Comet Lake is moving to LGA-1200 that’s still only 41 pins more than Coffee Lake and is most likely voltage and signal related.

The PCH (Z390) has plenty of PCIe lanes (x22), however, the DMI 3.0 bus is equivalent to an x4 PCIe 3.0 connection, which makes for a huge bottleneck and crap balance in a system configured will everything running through the PCH.Even PC motherboard OEMs try to balance their systems a bit, but this all on Intel. If you want more Thunderbolt 3 ports and/or more PCIe lanes off the CPU, you must be a Pro in their mind and should buy a Xeon or a Core-X series at a higher cost.
So basically, need a Xeon or heavier duty chip in the iMac? Because I want those four ports but I don’t want to drop $5K (or even $3K on a used one or a “deal” to get them).
 

sublunar

macrumors 68020
Jun 23, 2007
2,311
1,680
Titan Ridge was announced in 2018 so it was not available when Apple was designing / building the iMac Pro. I fully expect the next update (should it happen) will have Titan Ridge.

It's not really a good look to be selling an iMac Pro costing twice the price of a regular iMac that can't cope with the Apple Pro XDR display when a 2019 non Pro iMac can though.

The current iMac Pro uses the W-2100 series Xeon CPU and Intel announced the W-2200 in October so a new CPU is/will be available for a 2020 refresh if Apple so chooses to do said refresh.

The 22xx series run hotter though so I'd have thought some extra redesign was necessary if they were offering the same CPUs across the board unless they are going to underclock all SKUs for cooling reasons and/or re-engineer the cooling solution again with one eye on .

For example, if they are staying with the 27" 5k panel, could they re-engineer the cooling solution while adding the Titan Ridge controllers? Would the redesign eschew the thin edges and be able to take in a higher definition front facing web cam?

As mentioned above, a redesign would take care of adding Titan Ridge controllers for additional Apple Display XDR displays and is a good time to go thicker at the edges.
 

MandiMac

macrumors 65816
Feb 25, 2012
1,433
883
I think the iMac Pro chassis will become the new iMac this or next year. Better cooling alone will take the cake, but all-SSD and enhanced security (maybe Face ID as well) will make iMac the home computer to get, again.
 

vkd

macrumors 6502a
Sep 10, 2012
984
380
I think the iMac Pro chassis will become the new iMac this or next year. Better cooling alone will take the cake, but all-SSD and enhanced security (maybe Face ID as well) will make iMac the home computer to get, again.

I agree with this except I'd say a longer timespan. They'll wanna be milking the high profits from the Pro for as long as possible, whilst sustaining putting cheap HDDs etc. in the regular iMacs. Its all about Dollar$$$
 

MandiMac

macrumors 65816
Feb 25, 2012
1,433
883
I agree with this except I'd say a longer timespan. They'll wanna be milking the high profits from the Pro for as long as possible, whilst sustaining putting cheap HDDs etc. in the regular iMacs. Its all about Dollar$$$
Still, even if the regular iMacs get consumer hardware instead of pro hardware, it would be nice to have the better cooling, enhanced benefits and the space grey color. Would make sense from a production point of view, too - economies of scale dictate that price for the chassis would go down per unit if they mass-produce it.
 

sublunar

macrumors 68020
Jun 23, 2007
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Still, even if the regular iMacs get consumer hardware instead of pro hardware, it would be nice to have the better cooling, enhanced benefits and the space grey color. Would make sense from a production point of view, too - economies of scale dictate that price for the chassis would go down per unit if they mass-produce it.

It would not represent a complete redesign though. Some innovation in terms of exterior look would help drive new sales for the iMac range - those bezels keeps getting referred to by people who care about aesthetics.

An internal refresh would be cheap but for many potential buyers would be 'meh'.

If you want economies of scale Apple either extend the iMac upwards with 10 core Comet Lake S parts in October - potentially killing off the iMac Pro 2017 or they refresh the iMac Pro for 2020 and reduce the cost of entry level by de-speccing it a bit.

Intel have slashed CPU prices, NAND is cheaper, RAM is cheaper for now too.

Either way the iMac then looks roughly the same for another generation.

I'd go with lowering the entry price for the iMac Pro, and introduce something special underneath it - a 25" 4k iMac which Apple can start with 256Gb SSD and 8Gb RAM but go quite far up the range with 2Tb SSD and 64Gb RAM for example.

They can keep a 21.5" iMac with around for budget buyers.
 

Zdigital2015

macrumors 601
Jul 14, 2015
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It would not represent a complete redesign though. Some innovation in terms of exterior look would help drive new sales for the iMac range - those bezels keeps getting referred to by people who care about aesthetics.

An internal refresh would be cheap but for many potential buyers would be 'meh'.

If you want economies of scale Apple either extend the iMac upwards with 10 core Comet Lake S parts in October - potentially killing off the iMac Pro 2017 or they refresh the iMac Pro for 2020 and reduce the cost of entry level by de-speccing it a bit.

Intel have slashed CPU prices, NAND is cheaper, RAM is cheaper for now too.

Either way the iMac then looks roughly the same for another generation.

I'd go with lowering the entry price for the iMac Pro, and introduce something special underneath it - a 25" 4k iMac which Apple can start with 256Gb SSD and 8Gb RAM but go quite far up the range with 2Tb SSD and 64Gb RAM for example.

They can keep a 21.5" iMac with around for budget buyers.

The 10-core Comet Lake-S doesn't obviate the need for up to an 18-core iMac Pro...Apple still needs to update the iMac Pro to the Xeon W-22xx-Series CPUs among other updates. I do wish there were some benchmarks to tell us how much the potential increase in horsepower we could expect, but I have found none at this point.

Intel has slashed CPU prices, contract NAND is cheaper, but prices are expected to go up, contract DRAM is cheaper, but prices are expected to go up on that this year as well. The possible GPU replacements for the iMac Pro update is the biggest unknown to me.

If Apple choose to button up the iMac, I think it would be a mistake. I am hoping that Apple introduces a redesigned chassis that allows memory access for both models, takes XDR Display design cues, etc.

Apple might lower the price of entry of the iMac Pro, but my bet is that they will start at 10-cores (W-2255) at $4999 as the iMac now maxed out goes to $4849, and a future 10-core CL-S model should cost the same.
A de-specced iMac Pro is a non-starter at this point.

Let's hope Apple gets on the stick with new ID for the iMac and iMac Pro. The Pro is an important bridge between the iMac and the Mac Pro and the iMac 21.5" and 27" are important to Apple, but really long in the tooth.
 

bsbeamer

macrumors 601
Sep 19, 2012
4,313
2,713
Let's hope Apple gets on the stick with new ID for the iMac and iMac Pro. The Pro is an important bridge between the iMac and the Mac Pro and the iMac 21.5" and 27" are important to Apple, but really long in the tooth.

We’re still waiting for a bridge between Mac Mini and Mac Pro for headless option, but we’ve been waiting for that forever it seems. Almost every single model could use a refresh in early 2020, at least a GPU update for the non-headless models.
 

Zdigital2015

macrumors 601
Jul 14, 2015
4,144
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East Coast, United States
I like this idea.
I do too, LOL, now if we can all get Apple to get off their sweet a$$ and implement it. If Comet Lake-S is released in March, as the rumors would have us believe, then shipping in April and we should have new iMacs in time for WWDC, which still seems like forever.

Not to be flippant, but I’m set for the next three years (i9/Vega 48), so I have no dog in this hunt, but it’s past time for Apple to make a jump on the iMac ID, add T2, move to pure SSD and NOT jack up the price. The iMac Pro is too important Apple as a bridge Pro machine. If I’m equipping an editing studio, no way I’m giving editors an iMac or a Mac Pro, but an iMac Pro. The colorist? The Mac Pro. Motion graphics...iMac Pro. Sound, iMac or iMac Pro.
 

Zdigital2015

macrumors 601
Jul 14, 2015
4,144
5,624
East Coast, United States
We’re still waiting for a bridge between Mac Mini and Mac Pro for headless option, but we’ve been waiting for that forever it seems. Almost every single model could use a refresh in early 2020, at least a GPU update for the non-headless models.

I think there’s a market, but I don’t think there is any will within Apple. A double-wide mini with the 5300M/5500M would sell. A 2-3 PCIe slot Mac is even less likely. I have yet to understand why Apple has treated the Core X-Series like it has the plague, but I cannot for the life of me understand why. Again, I just don’t think anyone within Apple can get either one of these models past MarCom and the executive suite.

Attacking things from the mobile end would be likely. Apple still needs a 15” MacBook Air, 14” MacBook Pro and quad-core standard on the Air. This dual-core nonsense is pitiful in 2020.
 

Zdigital2015

macrumors 601
Jul 14, 2015
4,144
5,624
East Coast, United States
We’re still waiting for a bridge between Mac Mini and Mac Pro for headless option, but we’ve been waiting for that forever it seems. Almost every single model could use a refresh in early 2020, at least a GPU update for the non-headless models.

Also, I think the real proof in the pudding, so to speak, is going to be next quarter if the Mac share stays stagnant and the iPad share goes up...or vice versa. They basically tied, but I still don’t see enough workflows that can actually migrate to the iPad at this point. Apple is at a bit of a crossroads right now, and hopefully the Mac and the iPad will get more attention this year despite the iPhone and the Watch being the dominant selling hardware at this point.

Sorry, Tim, the Watch screen is too small for me to edit video on. I need my Mac and my iPad for that.

iPadOS is better than iOS 12, but the overall quality is not where it needs to be...and Catalina is just a hot mess.
 

xgman

macrumors 603
Aug 6, 2007
5,697
1,425
. Sound, iMac or iMac Pro.
It did win grammy's...

I wouldn't be totally surpirsed if Apple has something on the back burner, but that would be a 2021 product with a late 2020 announcement in all likelihood. They are historically slow to move on this sort of thing.
 

sublunar

macrumors 68020
Jun 23, 2007
2,311
1,680
The 10-core Comet Lake-S doesn't obviate the need for up to an 18-core iMac Pro...Apple still needs to update the iMac Pro to the Xeon W-22xx-Series CPUs among other updates. I do wish there were some benchmarks to tell us how much the potential increase in horsepower we could expect, but I have found none at this point.

Intel has slashed CPU prices, contract NAND is cheaper, but prices are expected to go up, contract DRAM is cheaper, but prices are expected to go up on that this year as well. The possible GPU replacements for the iMac Pro update is the biggest unknown to me.

If Apple choose to button up the iMac, I think it would be a mistake. I am hoping that Apple introduces a redesigned chassis that allows memory access for both models, takes XDR Display design cues, etc.

Apple might lower the price of entry of the iMac Pro, but my bet is that they will start at 10-cores (W-2255) at $4999 as the iMac now maxed out goes to $4849, and a future 10-core CL-S model should cost the same.
A de-specced iMac Pro is a non-starter at this point.

Let's hope Apple gets on the stick with new ID for the iMac and iMac Pro. The Pro is an important bridge between the iMac and the Mac Pro and the iMac 21.5" and 27" are important to Apple, but really long in the tooth.

10-core Comet Lake in a regular iMac could enable Apple to quietly kill off the iMac Pro. The reason why I think it should be kept is because of that status as a bridge machine for professionals who can't stretch to the Mac Pro.

10 core is probably going to remain the sweet spot for iMac Pro but Apple still need an entry level device, it's more logical that 8 cores would continue to be that entry level - especially as the Mac Pro also starts with 8 cores. A $4k 16Gb, 512Gb SSD 8 core iMac Pro with an AMD 5500 Pro GPU should surely be of interest for people who want a bigger screen for example. Leave the $5k machine for users who want to continue with 32Gb, 1Tb SSD, 10 cores, and AMD 5700 Pro.

Apple probably hedge NAND and DRAM prices with their massive bulk orders - their pricing of the 16" MacBook Pro certainly exhibits their buying power after they effectively doubled the storage on both of their SKUs without increasing prices and could in theory allow Apple to ride increases in NAND prices.

Let's also not forget that Intel have slashed CPU prices thanks to AMD's Ryzen although the price of 4k and 5k panels must be coming down too.

This is my thinking behind Apple having the budget to do something interesting within the current named price points of the iMac and iMac Pro because they have to add a T2 CPU onto the motherboard which will cost extra. The released budget from DRAM, NAND, and CPU savings could add up to an all-SSD design for the regular iMac.

The issue with the W-22xx series preventing it from being a slot in replacement for the W-21xx CPUs in the current iMac Pro is the increased TDPs on the higher end CPUs. Now Apple could mitigate by under clocking but they'd be putting the package into an ageing enclosure with inevitable remarks about 'massive bezels' on the 27" 5k panel.

So, in conclusion, if iMac Pro remains a 27" screen with workstation Xeon parts they may have to redesign for the extra heat produced by the W-22xx CPUs and powerful AMD GPUs going into it.

I'm still thinking a more practical and popular normal iMac would be a 24-25" with the same resolution as the 4k iMac (just a bigger screen) which would contain the Comet Lake parts - perhaps even high end Comet Lake H parts if Apple were perhaps thinking towards a design that let people more easily mount on a VESA monitor arm rather than a full-on space heater.

I think there’s a market, but I don’t think there is any will within Apple. A double-wide mini with the 5300M/5500M would sell. A 2-3 PCIe slot Mac is even less likely. I have yet to understand why Apple has treated the Core X-Series like it has the plague, but I cannot for the life of me understand why. Again, I just don’t think anyone within Apple can get either one of these models past MarCom and the executive suite.

Attacking things from the mobile end would be likely. Apple still needs a 15” MacBook Air, 14” MacBook Pro and quad-core standard on the Air. This dual-core nonsense is pitiful in 2020.

Intel's X-series processors have to be in serious danger from AMD's higher end Ryzen CPUs. The heat (and subsequent cooling noise) they put off is very high and they would present competition to the Mac Pro and iMac Pro in horse power terms.

Surely more interesting would be a Cube Mac with Comet Lake H, S, or even T parts that can be cooled to silence (a third of the TDP budget of some X series CPUs) but come with an onboard GPU which would preclude the need for expensive external eGPU. I'm thinking a headless MacBook Pro 16" with GPU on board and upgradeable RAM in a bigger case that optimises silence over performance.

Top SKU would be 8 cores, 16 threads, 3.1GHz base clock (4.98Ghz turbo) (i9-10980HK) - pair that with AMD 5500 Pro or better in a Cubic case with big fan cooling it and plan to refresh it every 2 years.

Most of Intel's 10th generation mobile products are quad core now, right down to the 15w parts so there would be plenty of threads even at entry level.

Also, I think the real proof in the pudding, so to speak, is going to be next quarter if the Mac share stays stagnant and the iPad share goes up...or vice versa. They basically tied, but I still don’t see enough workflows that can actually migrate to the iPad at this point. Apple is at a bit of a crossroads right now, and hopefully the Mac and the iPad will get more attention this year despite the iPhone and the Watch being the dominant selling hardware at this point.

What if Apple want to reduce costs on the Mac range by reducing overall number of SKUs and maybe also trying to go for economy of scale? If Comet Lake S parts are only going into a consumer desktop products such as iMac and Mac mini (making up less than 20% of Mac sales) they could redesign the lines around mobile Comet Lake Y, U, H, and use Xeon with 'Pro' products.

If they wanted to move things to iPad they would have to introduce changes to iPad OS that properly allow mouse pointers. By forking iPad OS away from iOS they have made a step in the right direction but we may be some distance away from challenging MacOS especially with the state of Catalina at the moment. I'd like to see how Final Cut Pro X could make a transition to an iPad but the user interface without proper mouse support could be challenging although I guess pencil support could replace that.

And so-called full Photoshop on an iPad would be interesting.
 
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_Skyfire_

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A $4k 16Gb, 512Gb SSD 8 core iMac Pro with an AMD 5500 Pro GPU should surely be of interest for people who want a bigger screen for example. Leave the $5k machine for users who want to continue with 32Gb, 1Tb SSD, 10 cores, and AMD 5700 Pro.

I'm still thinking a more practical and popular normal iMac would be a 24-25" with the same resolution as the 4k iMac (just a bigger screen) which would contain the Comet Lake parts - perhaps even high end Comet Lake H parts if Apple were perhaps thinking towards a design that let people more easily mount on a VESA monitor arm rather than a full-on space heater.
NOPE! 1TB SSD & 5700 are the minimum specs for the next top end iMac, and I'm sure the majority will also buy more than 32GB aftermarket RAM. That sure as **** ain't gonna cost anywhere close to $5k, more like 50% of $5k

I also hope that's not you seriously suggesting the average consumer should be satisfied with a 24" iMac as their only option..
 

bsbeamer

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Sep 19, 2012
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It's 2020. I'm not buying any new machine with an RX580 based variation. Time to move on, especially with a dGPU that cannot be swapped. Apple needs to realize this and offer more 5XXX variations (and improve their drivers) throughout their offerings. Unfortunately, the MacPro W5700X still isn't available for order and neither is pricing.
 

Hexley

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You can tell if an Apple product sells well on how often it receives a refresh or how many colors it comes in.

Late 2013 Mac Pro took 6 years to be updated in late 2019.
Late 2014 Mac mini took 4 years to be updated in late 2018.

Late 2017 iMac Pro is now over 2 years old and may receive an update by December 2020 or gets discontinued like the mid-2017 Macbook in in mid-2019.

Going forward it appears Apple has the Macbook Air consolidate the target market of both the Macbook and MacBook Air Into one. Does this mean weakening demand among the target market of consumers, parts unavailable from vendors like Intel, is it cheaper to make the MacBook Air than the MacBook, is it Apple’s way of saying that one USB-C port isn’t enough or all Macs going forward should all have Thunderbolt 3? So instead of having the product line age just discontinue it to a product line that will continue?

I do not mind Apple selling models introduced years ago.

What I do mind is that they sell these models at the same price as when it was first introduced years ago.

The early 2019 iMac will likely receive a refresh by late 2020 or early 2021. The previous two iMac refresh happened in late 2015 & mid 2017.

The only Mac that gets the quickest refresh of every 9 months or so is the Macbook Pro.
 
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Glockworkorange

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The 10-core Comet Lake-S doesn't obviate the need for up to an 18-core iMac Pro...Apple still needs to update the iMac Pro to the Xeon W-22xx-Series CPUs among other updates. I do wish there were some benchmarks to tell us how much the potential increase in horsepower we could expect, but I have found none at this point.

Intel has slashed CPU prices, contract NAND is cheaper, but prices are expected to go up, contract DRAM is cheaper, but prices are expected to go up on that this year as well. The possible GPU replacements for the iMac Pro update is the biggest unknown to me.

If Apple choose to button up the iMac, I think it would be a mistake. I am hoping that Apple introduces a redesigned chassis that allows memory access for both models, takes XDR Display design cues, etc.

Apple might lower the price of entry of the iMac Pro, but my bet is that they will start at 10-cores (W-2255) at $4999 as the iMac now maxed out goes to $4849, and a future 10-core CL-S model should cost the same.
A de-specced iMac Pro is a non-starter at this point.

Let's hope Apple gets on the stick with new ID for the iMac and iMac Pro. The Pro is an important bridge between the iMac and the Mac Pro and the iMac 21.5" and 27" are important to Apple, but really long in the tooth.
You say: "Let's hope Apple gets on the stick with new ID for the iMac and iMac Pro. The Pro is an important bridge between the iMac and the Mac Pro and the iMac 21.5" and 27" are important to Apple, but really long in the tooth."

I agree, but I wanted to make a comment re: the 21.5 inch iMac. I think a lot of people have kind of overlooked the LG 4K---the new one. It's 23.5/24 inches. I think the iMac is going to get a redesign and Apple will release a 24 incher at 4K and possibly kill the 21 incher.

I mean, the LG 4 and 5K's were always the same size as the respective iMac's; why make a 24 inch display if a 24 inch iMac is not right behind?
[automerge]1580653280[/automerge]
You can tell if an Apple product sells well on how often it receives a refresh or how many colors it comes in.

2013 Mac Pro took 6 years to be updated.
2014 Mac mini took 4 years to be updated.

2017 iMac Pro is now over 2 years old and may receive an update by December 2020 or gets discontinued like the mid-2017 Macbook in in mid-2019. The Macbook Air consolidates the target market of both the Macbook and Macbook Air.

I do not mind Apple selling models introduced years ago.

What I do mind is that they sell these models at the same price as when it was first introduced years ago.

The 2019 iMac will receive a refresh by late 2020 or early 2021. The previous two iMac refresh happened in 2015 & 2017.

The only Mac that gets a refresh every 9 months or so is the Macbook Pro.
Lot of wisdom in this comment---Apple has said the 13 inch MBP is their best selling computer, and that thing is getting updated around twice per year. The iMac's seem to be every two years and the Mac Mini---who knows? That thing is going on two years now ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
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CWallace

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I think the Mac mini's refresh schedule was impacted a fair bit by Intel - the model uses 28W FCBGA CPUs and Intel does not seem to update those every generation (or if they do, the differences are minimal). So it took four years (from Haswell-H to Coffee Lake-H) for a significant enough upgrade to come out to make it worth the effort.

Apple comments on the matter do state that the MacBook Pro makes up the significant majority of Apple's Mac sales so it does make sense that Apple focuses the most resources on that model in terms of updates - and it helps that Intel is also focusing on those classes of CPUs when it comes to generational upgrades.


I agree, but I wanted to make a comment re: the 21.5 inch iMac. I think a lot of people have kind of overlooked the LG 4K---the new one. It's 23.5/24 inches. I think the iMac is going to get a redesign and Apple will release a 24 incher at 4K and possibly kill the 21 incher.

The one issue I see with the new LG 4K Ultrafine is it is not a "true" Retina display at 189dpi. At "typical" viewing distances, Apple defines a Retina display for a Mac desktop at ~220 dpi and the 21.5" has a DPI of 219 and the 27" 5K's has a DPI of 218.

Mind you, 189dpi is better than just about any other 4K display on the market by a decent margin and almost as good as the Microsoft Surface Studio's 193dpi, but it is still in "bad zone" if used in HiDPI mode. And the LG 31.5" 4K panel has a DPI of only 138, which is also in the "bad zone". So I am skeptical Apple would be willing to use the 24" panel in a new iMac (and the 31.5" is a definite no-go).
 
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Hexley

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Lot of wisdom in this comment---Apple has said the 13 inch MBP is their best selling computer, and that thing is getting updated around twice per year. The iMac's seem to be every two years and the Mac Mini---who knows? That thing is going on two years now ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Thanks!

This slow down is not isolated to just Apple but is an industry-wide issue.

Back in 2016 Intel CEO stated that PC upgrade cycle slowed to 5-6 years.

This sorta fits into the upgrade cycle of the Mac Pro.

Back when Steve Jobs was alive he stated during a keynote that consumers were gravitating towards notebooks rather than desktops. And it shows today.

By the year 2030 I wonder how Apple will further consolidate their product line.

Currently we have this

Notebooks
  • MacBook Air (Retina) #2
  • MacBook Pro 13-inch (Two Thunderbolt 3 ports) #1
  • MacBook Pro 16-inch #1
  • MacBook Pro 13-inch (Four Thunderbolt 3 ports) #1
Desktops
  • iMac 21.5-inch 2#
  • iMac 21.5-inch (Retina 4K) #1
  • iMac 27-inch (Retina 5K) #1
  • iMac Pro #4
  • Mac mini #3
  • Mac Pro #5
If i were to hazard a guess the next iMac Pro spec bump will happen once the new body comes out.

Today the iPhone & iPad Pro has 512GB & 1TB of storage respectively. Will they be taking over the consumer-end of the Mac by 2030?

One can just plug the smartphone or tablet into a USB-C monitor that is a hub to a keyboard and mouse. Samsung has this called the DeX station.
 
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Glockworkorange

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Chicago, Illinois
I think the Mac mini's refresh schedule was impacted a fair bit by Intel - the model uses 28W FCBGA CPUs and Intel does not seem to update those every generation (or if they do, the differences are minimal). So it took four years (from Haswell-H to Coffee Lake-H) for a significant enough upgrade to come out to make it worth the effort.

Apple comments on the matter do state that the MacBook Pro makes up the significant majority of Apple's Mac sales so it does make sense that Apple focuses the most resources on that model in terms of updates - and it helps that Intel is also focusing on those classes of CPUs when it comes to generational upgrades.




The one issue I see with the new LG 4K Ultrafine is it is not a "true" Retina display at 189dpi. At "typical" viewing distances, Apple defines a Retina display for a Mac desktop at ~220 dpi and the 21.5" has a DPI of 219 and the 27" 5K's has a DPI of 218.

Mind you, 189dpi is better than just about any other 4K display on the market by a decent margin and almost as good as the Microsoft Surface Studio's 193dpi, but it is still in "bad zone" if used in HiDPI mode. And the LG 31.5" 4K panel has a DPI of only 138, which is also in the "bad zone". So I am skeptical Apple would be willing to use the 24" panel in a new iMac (and the 31.5" is a definite no-go).
I had the 23.5 LG "4K" right next to the 21 inch. I returned it, as the PPI was clearly inferior. Disappointing, really, although it's nice that it comes with Thunderbolt ports.
 

throAU

macrumors G3
Feb 13, 2012
9,273
7,440
Perth, Western Australia
It's been more than 2 years since iMac Pro released and since then, I didn't see any updates for iMac Pro. Any idea when will they going to update their iMac Pro?

When intel (for CPU) and/or AMD (for GPU) put out something that is actually an upgrade.

If they were to "refresh" it right now, they would be pretty much identical parts with different part numbers only.
 
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