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No more Safari leaks
- Thread starter bousozoku
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Re: pointing fingers..
it's not like they were releasing them anyway. they will get the final out either way, don't worry. if they can't take the leaks, they'll have to do more work themselves. that's the consequences for being a control freak.
it's not like they were releasing them anyway. they will get the final out either way, don't worry. if they can't take the leaks, they'll have to do more work themselves. that's the consequences for being a control freak.
Its always one step forward and two steps back with Apple.
They seem to embrace the open source community (by using an open source core and many other projects) but then act like this.
The KDX community was already getting angry about Apple's use of khtml without adding any of their changes back to khtml. We have an uproar over Darwin. Apple banning contributions from people under 18. And now this mess.
Apple has embraced open source more than any other public company and I give them credit for it, but my guess is there is some internal conflict over how far to take it. Situations such as these are evidence of it.
What harm does it cause to distribute beta builds of your free software when you have already decided to release some betas. Many people have been asking why all these developer seeds weren't made public. Seems Apple did this to themselves. They release a beta. had problems with it decided to only release limited betas (to developers) after that, found that those were leaked and is now shutting the whole thing down.
Apple has a right to keep private what they want to keep private, but I am just saying they are being stupid.
The Mozilla project and sourceforge have shown that open source is a viable option. You release puclic betas and have nightlies, cvs, which only advanced users can have access to. This allows novice users a peek at stable betas and advanced users access to the rest in order to imprve them. This has been a working solution for a very long time.
Anyone who reads Hyatt's blog can see how much great feedback he is getting. And not all of it is from people who were developers.
This is Apple cutting off their nose to spite their face.
Boo Apple!
[btw i don't use Safari and don't plan to so i'm not just upset because this effects me it doesn't effect me except in setting a negative future precident)
They seem to embrace the open source community (by using an open source core and many other projects) but then act like this.
The KDX community was already getting angry about Apple's use of khtml without adding any of their changes back to khtml. We have an uproar over Darwin. Apple banning contributions from people under 18. And now this mess.
Apple has embraced open source more than any other public company and I give them credit for it, but my guess is there is some internal conflict over how far to take it. Situations such as these are evidence of it.
What harm does it cause to distribute beta builds of your free software when you have already decided to release some betas. Many people have been asking why all these developer seeds weren't made public. Seems Apple did this to themselves. They release a beta. had problems with it decided to only release limited betas (to developers) after that, found that those were leaked and is now shutting the whole thing down.
Apple has a right to keep private what they want to keep private, but I am just saying they are being stupid.
The Mozilla project and sourceforge have shown that open source is a viable option. You release puclic betas and have nightlies, cvs, which only advanced users can have access to. This allows novice users a peek at stable betas and advanced users access to the rest in order to imprve them. This has been a working solution for a very long time.
Anyone who reads Hyatt's blog can see how much great feedback he is getting. And not all of it is from people who were developers.
This is Apple cutting off their nose to spite their face.
Boo Apple!
[btw i don't use Safari and don't plan to so i'm not just upset because this effects me it doesn't effect me except in setting a negative future precident)
Certainly not too unexpected. I will support Apple on this matter since the leaked versions of Safari have been fairly wide spread.
However, I would be interested in knowing Apple's criteria to release a public beta. What separates the first and second public betas from the intermediate betas?
And on a side note, if I recall correctly, today is the 2nd anniversary of Mac OS X's release.
However, I would be interested in knowing Apple's criteria to release a public beta. What separates the first and second public betas from the intermediate betas?
And on a side note, if I recall correctly, today is the 2nd anniversary of Mac OS X's release.
is that like KDE? KDE is the UI that makes Konqueror, the web browser that has the same basic core as Safari... i think AL is saying that they are mad that Apple took KHTML and changed it, and failed to share those changes with the rest of the community, which is the whole idea behind open source.
Chimera or Camino? lol, i got camino, and i was like, what a crappy name, and there is nothing better than the last chimera nightly. i am going back to that. and that's where i am. i tried v67, and it was neat, but chimera is still way better. i just wish we had a googlebar.
aaargh
first of all, those idiot developers out there who leaked the builds and totally ruined it for everyone else...we're gonna find you someday and make you pay
Apple has every right to do this because Safari is their product and if they released nightly builds, etc. like Chimera and Camino, it would suck for Apple because you'd get these l/users, newbies and old/inexperienced ppl calling saying that safari did (name something) to their computer.
second of all, it sucks for all you mac users because you have no more developer builds of safari
It sucks for developers because they can no longer give Apple feedback regarding Safari.
I dislike what Apple has done but there's no way they're gonna trust any developer after Safari.
first of all, those idiot developers out there who leaked the builds and totally ruined it for everyone else...we're gonna find you someday and make you pay
Apple has every right to do this because Safari is their product and if they released nightly builds, etc. like Chimera and Camino, it would suck for Apple because you'd get these l/users, newbies and old/inexperienced ppl calling saying that safari did (name something) to their computer.
second of all, it sucks for all you mac users because you have no more developer builds of safari
It sucks for developers because they can no longer give Apple feedback regarding Safari.
I dislike what Apple has done but there's no way they're gonna trust any developer after Safari.
there is a quick little hack for google-ness. the mac browsers board is full of great little mods for chim...camino. jasper know his **** so check out his hacks. there is a google hack, spell checking hack, download manager hack, and a bunch more
Mac Broswers Board
Jasper's Camino Page
Tips Page
and to keep things on topic... All of these people are the kind of people who make up the open source community people who could be investing resources into Apple's browser, but Apple just teases us with open source never embraces it. It is very upsetting to see Apple take these kinds of actions when these is such a powerful community out there willing and anxious to help.
Re: aaargh
developers always do this. i don't see why you are so mad about this instance.
having a CVS tree wouldn't hurt apple at all. they aren't for newbies at all... it's like messing with the terminal, from what i understand--people don't do it. as for nightlies, sure, i understand. i've gotten the latest nightly for chimera every week for the last 3 months (till camino came out) and NOTHING ever happened to my system. it maybe crashed the program twice, but i've had final apple apps crash more than that.
Originally posted by übergeek
first of all, those idiot developers out there who leaked the builds and totally ruined it for everyone else...we're gonna find you someday and make you pay
Apple has every right to do this because Safari is their product and if they released nightly builds, etc. like Chimera and Camino, it would suck for Apple because you'd get these l/users, newbies and old/inexperienced ppl calling saying that safari did (name something) to their computer.
second of all, it sucks for all you mac users because you have no more developer builds of safari
It sucks for developers because they can no longer give Apple feedback regarding Safari.
I dislike what Apple has done but there's no way they're gonna trust any developer after Safari.
developers always do this. i don't see why you are so mad about this instance.
having a CVS tree wouldn't hurt apple at all. they aren't for newbies at all... it's like messing with the terminal, from what i understand--people don't do it. as for nightlies, sure, i understand. i've gotten the latest nightly for chimera every week for the last 3 months (till camino came out) and NOTHING ever happened to my system. it maybe crashed the program twice, but i've had final apple apps crash more than that.
Re: Re: aaargh
Developers always do this but i had this thing for getting builds of safari you wouldn't understand...
but you're smart and you know how to use computers.
Developers always do this but i had this thing for getting builds of safari you wouldn't understand...
Re: Re: Re: aaargh
that's right, i actually know enough about computers to get the nightly. i did nothing to chimera to keep it running smoothly. nightly builds aren't inherently unsafe. apple could follow the mozilla model just fine. it would make their browser MUCH better because it means EVERYONE can contribute as much as they want. furthermore, nightly builds are easy to deal with legally; you just say "this is entirely unsupported; we think it works fine, but don't come to us when your block goes up in a mushroom cloud." people who take the risk can't complain. well they can, but it only makes them look like idiots.
What if they released nightlies to people who signed up for the Apple Developer program?
Not just the paid ones, the basic free one too, the one where you can get the dev tools, IP over Firewire and one other thing (I don't remember) that way it wouldn't be majorly publicized (like having a splash page on apple.com) but the people who would be the ones who would be most likely to go through the extra effort to sign up for it would also be the people most likely to give feedback.
Not just the paid ones, the basic free one too, the one where you can get the dev tools, IP over Firewire and one other thing (I don't remember) that way it wouldn't be majorly publicized (like having a splash page on apple.com) but the people who would be the ones who would be most likely to go through the extra effort to sign up for it would also be the people most likely to give feedback.
that's a cool idea. i'm already signed up for it because i used developer tools...
the only thing is, anyone can sign up, so it really doesn't make a difference as far as the question of "should we let the public access this in a progressive manner?" apple is saying no, and they are wrong, or just lazy.
yes, and kick off elitist 15-year-old girls who think they are überproOriginally posted by übergeek
they should just let apple employees and ADC members and WWDC attendees try out safari
apple can't get hurt by allowing the open source community to see this. they are the ones who make real progress these days--redhat &c are becoming really competitive on a number of markets. the only people who stand to lose by apple having nightlies and a CVS tree are the people dumb enough not to read the instructions and guidelines. opening this up to the public opens them up to new ideas and new ways of approaching things.
consider the example of the totalitarian state: freedom of expression is banned, and the education system is censored as well. as a result, many of the greatest minds are alienated and do not contribute to a society.
when apple closes that window to the community, a great deal of creativity is taken away. it makes them more like microsoft and less like linux. i don't know about the rest of you, but there are two main reasons i switched: *nix base and aqua. i understand some of this must be proprietary, but i don't approve of these proprietary regressions like this.