Nokia doesn't make that much money at all
their market cap is only 49 billion, apple is around 180 billion.
Apple should just buy out nokia and make something useful with their assets
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Nokia says: "Without Nokia iPhone would be only iPod"
- Thread starter Hellhammer
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Nokia doesn't make that much money at all
their market cap is only 49 billion, apple is around 180 billion.
Apple should just buy out nokia and make something useful with their assets
Market cap doesn't tell you much about a company's income/profit. A stock can be undervalued or overvalued.
It seems alot of posters are on Apple's side just because it's Apple.
Face it. Apple is in the wrong. Nokia had been in on-going negotiations pretty much since the inception of the Iphone. Negotiations failed, now Nokia sues.
Why is Nokia suing? Answer for your hard headed fellas: Apple is using Nokia's patents without compensating Nokia. Pretty much every other phone maker pays Nokia royalties/compenstion in on form or another for the use of their patents. All except Apple.
As much I use Apple products, it's bad business practice. It's like 'pirating apps from the app store,' However this time Apple is pirating patents from Nokia.
I hope Apple pays big for this and gets off their high horse theyve been on over the iphone for the last year or so.
Face it. Apple is in the wrong. Nokia had been in on-going negotiations pretty much since the inception of the Iphone. Negotiations failed, now Nokia sues.
Why is Nokia suing? Answer for your hard headed fellas: Apple is using Nokia's patents without compensating Nokia. Pretty much every other phone maker pays Nokia royalties/compenstion in on form or another for the use of their patents. All except Apple.
As much I use Apple products, it's bad business practice. It's like 'pirating apps from the app store,' However this time Apple is pirating patents from Nokia.
I hope Apple pays big for this and gets off their high horse theyve been on over the iphone for the last year or so.
I don't really understand this one, to be honest. Aren't Apple using off-the-shelf 3G chips etc. in the iPhone? If that's the case, shouldn't the manufacturers of those chips have a licence from Nokia to use the patented IP, not Apple? Isn't this a bit like someone sueing Apple because they own a patent that Nvidia violated in one of the graphics cards in the Mac Pro? Unless of course it's a software patent, but as Nokia haven't released any details of what the supposed infringements are we're pretty much in the dark about that.
Here's an article with links to the complaint PDF and patents. (Doesn't everyone read IntoMobile daily?)
As I've posted before in these threads, chips like the Infineon baseband processor are useless without software.
I've read the complaint and looked at the patents involved, and all include software methods. They cover basic GSM and WiFi, voice and data.
Nokia says Apple refused to pay for either the whole set, or even some.
Also in the complaint, Nokia claims that Apple unfairly got extra market share because they could sell the iPhone for less, by not paying for R&D that Nokia did.
Nokia asks for a jury trial in Delaware.
As I've posted before in these threads, chips like the Infineon baseband processor are useless without software.
I've read the complaint and looked at the patents involved, and all include software methods. They cover basic GSM and WiFi, voice and data.
Nokia says Apple refused to pay for either the whole set, or even some.
Also in the complaint, Nokia claims that Apple unfairly got extra market share because they could sell the iPhone for less, by not paying for R&D that Nokia did.
Nokia asks for a jury trial in Delaware.
Especially when they have to release so many touch-screen devices in 1 go to compete with the iPhone. The N97 has failed. We'll see where the N900 heads to now.
But. Nokia is in the right here. Apple can't always be right. Some stuff have to be acknowledged. If they leech off others, I agree with Nokia here. Just like Palm leeches off Apple. We get irritated too. Apple should just pay that tiny little bit of their revenues to them. After all, it will only cause a small dent in their revenues so far.
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_1_2 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7D11 Safari/528.16)
Enough money to grind apple in to the ground? You need to check your numbers here.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=aapl&d=t
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=NOK&d=t
mgamber said:
Enough money to grind apple in to the ground? You need to check your numbers here.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=aapl&d=t
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=NOK&d=t
Oh wow! I didn't even think of that with the impact on marketshare. This could be a big deal.
I'd have to say I'm totally with Nokia on this one. Apple should have played by the rules.
/agreed 100%
This patent system, combined w/ large greedy corporations that are overly concerned w/ protecting their own asses and IP, leads to technological stagnation and impedes innovation. But hey, this is capitalism at its finest.
That site has a lot of interesting articles about the battles between Nokia and Qualcomm.
No, it seems like more people are on Nokia's side from reading these posts in this thread.
Horrible thread title! As even your own OP states it wasn't Nokia who said this. It was Professor Manner, and it's Helsinki University of Technology not "Finland's technical's academy's technology".
As for the claim, it's of course bit of an hyberbole. Ericsson and Qualcomm have done about as much GSM innovation as Nokia. Still, I guess the point is valid. Without the innovation partly done by Nokia, Iphone would be just a iPod Touch.
Sad to say, Apple is in the wrong here...
Nokia did its' fair share of notifying Apple, and Apple didn't do anything about it.
The lawsuit(s) on Patent Infringements is quite complicated, so if you think Apple is totally liable or unliable, or negligent - just wait till this goes to court. They may ultimately just get the license from Nokia and pay the respective millions, but I wouldn't doubt Apple has a side to the story that will be released at due time.
I may even be wrong, by saying above "Apple is in the wrong." Looking at it now from all the factors I know, Apple seems to be in the wrong, but I guarantee there are other variables that Apple will entice the courtroom with.
If you think Apple doesn't have something up their sleeve for this court battle, I would look at other Patent Infringement court cases and see how they transgress... A lot of times the patent holder makes a claim for the license, but there is also many times where the person or company who infringes on the patent has a variable that is only brought up till it goes to court.
-Apple dismissed Nokia's allegations on patent infringements since 2007 for a reason.
-Nokia waited for a lawsuit until now for a reason.
Nokia did its' fair share of notifying Apple, and Apple didn't do anything about it.
The lawsuit(s) on Patent Infringements is quite complicated, so if you think Apple is totally liable or unliable, or negligent - just wait till this goes to court. They may ultimately just get the license from Nokia and pay the respective millions, but I wouldn't doubt Apple has a side to the story that will be released at due time.
I may even be wrong, by saying above "Apple is in the wrong." Looking at it now from all the factors I know, Apple seems to be in the wrong, but I guarantee there are other variables that Apple will entice the courtroom with.
If you think Apple doesn't have something up their sleeve for this court battle, I would look at other Patent Infringement court cases and see how they transgress... A lot of times the patent holder makes a claim for the license, but there is also many times where the person or company who infringes on the patent has a variable that is only brought up till it goes to court.
-Apple dismissed Nokia's allegations on patent infringements since 2007 for a reason.
-Nokia waited for a lawsuit until now for a reason.
I don't think Nokia would deliberately wait any longer than they had to.
Each day that Apple delayed them with negotiations, Nokia was losing marketshare to Apple, with no guarantee that a jury would help them reclaim (or even could reclaim) damages for that.
I also think Nokia is being pretty nice. They could easily ask for an injunction against iPhone sales until the trial was over, and would probably get it... at least in some countries.
Remember a similar case a couple of years ago when Qualcomm's chips were barred from the USA, and Verizon finally had to come up with license fees on its own, just so they could get their new phone models released for sale.
Each day that Apple delayed them with negotiations, Nokia was losing marketshare to Apple, with no guarantee that a jury would help them reclaim (or even could reclaim) damages for that.
I also think Nokia is being pretty nice. They could easily ask for an injunction against iPhone sales until the trial was over, and would probably get it... at least in some countries.
Remember a similar case a couple of years ago when Qualcomm's chips were barred from the USA, and Verizon finally had to come up with license fees on its own, just so they could get their new phone models released for sale.
Nokia has patented wireless radio communication involving speech? They invented encryption? That's like saying Gore invented the internet....I wonder if Apple will receive support from other phone manufacturers to challenge the patent. In fact, I'm surprised Nokia's competitors haven't banded together and litigated Nokia's patent into the long grass.
Did you even read the patents? By your post, I doubt it.
I wonder if Apple will receive support from other phone manufacturers to challenge the patent. In fact, I'm surprised Nokia's competitors haven't banded together and litigated Nokia's patent into the long grass.
Nokia has not "patented wireless radio communication involving speech".
And they never claimed to have invented encryption either.
Talk about hyperbole.
They do however own the patents for (key word here for you beginners and blind Apple followers) how it is done in the GSM and UMTS world.
Nokia is well within their legal rights to demand compensation for the use of their patents.
QFT...the stupid level of fandom here is incredible. You'd think their mom invented the iphone or something
Did you even read the patents? By your post, I doubt it.
Nokia has not "patented wireless radio communication involving speech".
And they never claimed to have invented encryption either.
Talk about hyperbole.
They do however own the patents for (key word here for you beginners and blind Apple followers) how it is done in the GSM and UMTS world.
Nokia is well within their legal rights to demand compensation for the use of their patents.
Champ, Champ! iPhone's been the bee's knees of AT&T, so what's the bottom line here? If Nokia gets their way, will the iPhone go the way of the dodo (quick, fast, and in a hurry) or will Apple pay a huge settlement+residuals to Nokia, thus keeping the iPhone off the extinct list?
Sheesh. Why does everything have to be black and white? Go Apple or Go Nokia. If these patent claims are as clear as they appear to be, than this case is about negotiation.
Apple was not part of the group that made the GSM standard based on Nokia technology. It appears Nokia wants to charge them more to use these patents than anyone else. (By charging a percentage, since an Apple probably has the highest average selling price in the market.) There are actually laws against companies banding together to create barriers to new companies entering the market, so Nokia can't charge whatever they want.
Apple is likely using this and probably other leverage to negotiate a better deal with Nokia. The court will assist in that process.
Apple was not part of the group that made the GSM standard based on Nokia technology. It appears Nokia wants to charge them more to use these patents than anyone else. (By charging a percentage, since an Apple probably has the highest average selling price in the market.) There are actually laws against companies banding together to create barriers to new companies entering the market, so Nokia can't charge whatever they want.
Apple is likely using this and probably other leverage to negotiate a better deal with Nokia. The court will assist in that process.
Champ! Champ! Now you're on the trolley! So you're saying that the fat cats may try to cash in on what's been deemed the cat's meow of the telephonic industry. What're the chances Apple'll pass this on to the little folk, the average joes, and charge us for some more clams?
Did you even read the patents? By your post, I doubt it.
Nokia has not "patented wireless radio communication involving speech".
And they never claimed to have invented encryption either.
Talk about hyperbole.
They do however own the patents for (key word here for you beginners and blind Apple followers) how it is done in the GSM and UMTS world.
Nokia is well within their legal rights to demand compensation for the use of their patents.
Actually, one cannot patent an information processing method, algorithm or software, so the patent is not about how it is done, but the hardware for doing it (and hence the use of ROMs in the Mac to prevent cloning). Second, patents should not be awarded for ideas that are not novel or innovative - a standard is not an invention. I am a research scientist and I am frankly shocked at the cr*p that gets patented. The patent offices are overwhelmed with applications they barely understand and they award patents for just about anything....
I am thinking of applying for a patent for a left-handed windshifter....
Yes. Because the others who invade territory should have to pay too. It's called the "Patent Wars".
What Nokia are asking for amounts to about $6 per unit in licence fees.
Here's my prediction:
There'll be a court case. Some lawyers will make some money. And Apple will settle by paying $3 per unit.
$3 on a device on which Apple makes makes some $400+ profit per unit.
No one even blinks.
Over the duration of the case, Nokia will lose another 5% of the global smartphone market share.
C.