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s.m.t.

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Mar 7, 2010
285
22
I noticed this morning my Northbridge temp as reported in iStat Menus was reporting really high (128c)... This was on idle, so I bumped my fans up to see if it would come down, but it stats rock steady at that level. There is not even a single degree fluctuation. All other temps are really low, ambient is 29c, both CPUs are around 60c, and the Northbridge heatsink is around 55c...

So I thought it might be an issue with iStat Menus reporting it incorrectly, but when I check in MacFan Control or TG Pro, IOH Tdiode isn't even listed. Only the IOH Heatsink.

Anyone seen this before?
 

Snow Tiger

macrumors 6502a
Dec 18, 2019
854
634
If your Mac Pro 4,1 really had a Northbridge temp of 128 C , it would have shut down by now . It's TDP isn't that high . I think it shuts down the System around 105 - 110 C . The boiling point of water !

Bumping up the system fans speeds with MFC to compensate for a failing Northbridge Controller Heatsink is a fools dream .

You have a ten year old high powered dual processor 2009-12 Mac Pro and its Northbridge cooling system is failing ( it's thermal paste is dry and not allowing enough thermal conductivity to occur ) .

This is a time based issue . They are all failing now .

If you love your Mac , you must learn to maintain it properly and that means rethermal pasting the Northbridge controller chip / heatsink . It's the small heatsink in between the two large heatsinks on your CPU Tray . It's a complex operation , but if you self installed your CPUs you can handle this .
 

h9826790

macrumors P6
Apr 3, 2014
16,656
8,587
Hong Kong
iStat menu is correct, 128°C should be the max it can report, the actual temperature may be above that

[automerge]1577034146[/automerge]
If your Mac Pro 4,1 really had a Northbridge temp of 128 C , it would have shut down by now . It's TDP isn't that high . I think it shuts down the System around 105 - 110 C . The boiling point of water !

TDP has nothing about temperature. and 128°C on the NB chip won't cause hard shutdown on cMP. You mixed it up with the CPU diode temperature.

And it's not the thermal paste problem, but the rivet broken (of course, OP still need to re-apply the thermal paste anyway)
 

Snow Tiger

macrumors 6502a
Dec 18, 2019
854
634
iStat menu is correct, 128°C should be the max it can report, the actual temperature may be above that

[automerge]1577034146[/automerge]


TDP has nothing about temperature. and 128°C on the NB chip won't cause hard shutdown on cMP. You mixed it up with the CPU diode temperature.

And it's not the thermal paste problem, but the rivet broken (of course, OP still need to re-apply the thermal paste anyway)

They're not rivets . They are push pins . The Northbridge Controller Heatsink of a Mac Pro 2009-12 is retained to the CPU Tray via two Apple custom made push pins .

If one of them broke , the System almost certainly wouldn't even start up .

The OP should put his System through a CPU benchmark test ( 2 - 3 minutes ) and push all his cores at load briefly . If his Mac is still online then both his NB push pins are retained properly . His NB thermal paste is dry , though .

TDP is a manufacturer designated thermal safety limit for a system component . It's how a power virus can artificially push a System component beyond a TDP rating , so its not an absolute physical limitation . Upper limits of the thermal sensors are supposed to be closely related to TDPs , when a System is designed . It's a safety feature .

And yes , I guarantee his NB Chip needs re-thermal pasting at this late date . I've torn down hundreds of these Systems and the Dual Processor Systems have their NB go offline before the Single Processor Systems on average . At any rate , all the DP Systems I've seen in the last year have completely dried thermal paste on the NB chips .

I've never seen a Northbridge Chip or Heatsink sensor reading as high as 128 C in one of these Macs , for the simple reason is that the System would have shut down by then . It's an over temp situation .

If someone is currently getting a reading that high in an OS session , it has to be a false report . iStat is wrong . Guaranteed . They need to rewrite their utility .

This Mac model has an Intel X58 class controller chip which according to Intel Arc has a Tcase of 100 C . That's a sensor near the outside of the chip and the one likely to be read by a sensor utility . So, manufacturers like Apple would not permit their Systems to operate with this component much above this temperature , if they follow Intel's guidance .

 
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flowrider

macrumors 604
Nov 23, 2012
7,323
3,003

Lou
 

h9826790

macrumors P6
Apr 3, 2014
16,656
8,587
Hong Kong
They're not rivets . They are push pins . The Northbridge Controller Heatsink of a Mac Pro 2009-12 is retained to the CPU Tray via two Apple custom made push pins .

If one of them broke , the System almost certainly wouldn't even start up .

The OP should put his System through a CPU benchmark test ( 2 - 3 minutes ) and push all his cores at load briefly . If his Mac is still online then both his NB push pins are retained properly . His NB thermal paste is dry , though .

TDP is a manufacturer designated thermal safety limit for a system component . It's how a power virus can artificially push a System component beyond a TDP rating , so its not an absolute physical limitation . Upper limits of the thermal sensors are supposed to be closely related to TDPs , when a System is designed . It's a safety feature .

And yes , I guarantee his NB Chip needs re-thermal pasting at this late date . I've torn down hundreds of these Systems and the Dual Processor Systems have their NB go offline before the Single Processor Systems on average . At any rate , all the DP Systems I've seen in the last year have completely dried thermal paste on the NB chips .

I've never seen a Northbridge Chip or Heatsink sensor reading as high as 128 C in one of these Macs , for the simple reason is that the System would have shut down by then . It's an over temp situation .

If someone is currently getting a reading that high in an OS session , it has to be a false report . iStat is wrong . Guaranteed . They need to rewrite their utility .

This Mac model has an Intel X58 class controller chip which according to Intel Arc has a Tcase of 100 C . That's a sensor near the outside of the chip and the one likely to be read by a sensor utility . So, manufacturers like Apple would not permit their Systems to operate with this component much above this temperature , if they follow Intel's guidance .


Please just read the links that flowrider and me posted.
 

s.m.t.

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Mar 7, 2010
285
22
So I ended up booting from another OS disk to rule out a software issue. But it exhibited the same problem. I was leaning that way as I would agree, temps that high shouldn't even be stable...

I had already blew out all the dust earlier, but I figured let me just pull the NB heatsink and reapply some fresh thermal compound.

Much to my surprise I found the ever too common issue of a broken pin on the heatsink!! :eek:

I pulled it off completely, applied new thermal compound, and used some bolts and spacers in place of the spring clips on the heatsink. Powered back on and temps are back to normal... Those symptoms really threw a curve ball in what I would have expected the issue to be... Even TG Pro now reports the temp again... That alone was odd...
 

Sean__Wong

macrumors member
Oct 17, 2018
74
26
So I ended up booting from another OS disk to rule out a software issue. But it exhibited the same problem. I was leaning that way as I would agree, temps that high shouldn't even be stable...

I had already blew out all the dust earlier, but I figured let me just pull the NB heatsink and reapply some fresh thermal compound.

Much to my surprise I found the ever too common issue of a broken pin on the heatsink!! :eek:

I pulled it off completely, applied new thermal compound, and used some bolts and spacers in place of the spring clips on the heatsink. Powered back on and temps are back to normal... Those symptoms really threw a curve ball in what I would have expected the issue to be... Even TG Pro now reports the temp again... That alone was odd...


@s.m.t. Thanks for posting your experience as a noob it helped me quickly diagnose my cMP 5,1 problem with its NB push pin ( not rivet ) breakage.

I went with a steel 3mm 15 mm long pan head bolt and insulator washers topped with a nylon nut with load spreader and re used the original springs did you grab any photos of your set up?

Checking for space above it once the CPU heat sink was tightened down
Mac PRo5,1 Northbridge Heatsink with new 15 mm Steel panhead bolts and nylon Top Nuts from sid...jpg


Heres how it looked before CPU heat sink was refitted
Mac PRo5,1 Northbridge Heatsink with new 15 mm Steel panhead bolts and nylon Top Nuts side.jpg
 
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MIKX

macrumors 68000
Dec 16, 2004
1,815
691
Japan
s.m.t.

In iStats Menus you can add or delete items to appear in it's prefs. Eg: Northbridge Tdiode

This might also be informative.

Glad you fixed the problem.
 

eksu

macrumors 6502
Aug 3, 2017
329
151
I've seen some Mac Fan Controller recommended profiles here before to keep Northbridge temperature down, but am having trouble finding it via search.

Can anyone share what they are using? IIRC Intake or Exhaust or BoostA/BoostB could be tied to the Northbridge Diode to keep temperatures down, but I don't recall which or what temperatures are good targets.
 

bmoraski

macrumors regular
May 27, 2020
102
40
Just re-pasted cpu and northbridge heat sink. Problem solved. No more fans to full when booting up. Temps are normal. Using Macs Fan Control. Happy camper here.
 

KeesMacPro

macrumors 65816
Nov 7, 2019
1,453
596
Can anyone share what they are using? IIRC Intake or Exhaust or BoostA/BoostB could be tied to the Northbridge Diode to keep temperatures down, but I don't recall which or what temperatures are good targets.

This is my fan setup. similar to what lots of people recommend.
The PSI/PSU fans are set like this because of a hot and power consuming GPU and summer Temps:)

Basically the Intake and Boost A are the most effective to lower the NB Temp.
They're depending on the NB diode T and set : starting to increase rpm at 55 Celsius , max rpm at 80 Celsius.
This way the NB stays around ~60-62 Celsius.
 

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MassMacMan

macrumors regular
Jul 12, 2012
180
66
Boston MetroWest
24 degrees
Let me get this straight. You claim that system ambient is 24C. That is believable. But, a few of your reported temperatures are at or below 24C. How do you achieve that - do you have active cooling somewhere not reported? As an engineer, I have to state that these numbers are not credible.
 

KeesMacPro

macrumors 65816
Nov 7, 2019
1,453
596
@MassMacMan

The sensor called "ambient" is not somewhere outside the enclosure of the MP, but somewhere on the LoBo.
So the room Temp could be anything below T ambient.
These Temps are correct .
 
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bmoraski

macrumors regular
May 27, 2020
102
40
Let me get this straight. You claim that system ambient is 24C. That is believable. But, a few of your reported temperatures are at or below 24C. How do you achieve that - do you have active cooling somewhere not reported? As an engineer, I have to state that these numbers are not credible.
There are no temps listed there that are below ambient. Im not sure what your looking at. I assure you those are real temps. Not sure why you would say they are not credible.
 

w1z

macrumors 6502a
Aug 20, 2013
692
481
The actual ambient temperature is between 22C ~ 23C and not as the backplane reports 24C as wind, generated by the PCIe Fan, accelerates the time it takes for temps to reach a steady state within the mac pro enclosure which in this case is 23C.

Onboard ambient sensors are always off by 1C ~ 5C due to the surrounding heat generated by the various components, especially in dual-proc macs.
 

fatespawn

macrumors regular
Feb 22, 2009
244
112
Chicagoish
There are no temps listed there that are below ambient. Im not sure what your looking at. I assure you those are real temps. Not sure why you would say they are not credible.

How long has your computer been on in that picture? Assuming the room you're working in is somewhere around 20-25c, how are all your components around those temps too?
 
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