iPad Pro Not convinced iPad needs OLED

[sparksd]

One day I'm seeing awful jelly scroll effects on the iPad mini 6. I see what all the fuss is about. It looks bad.

Months later I'm at a different store—I go up to completely different device (but same iPad mini 6) and can't reproduce the jelly effect! It looks fine. The model next to it also didn't have it.

It seems there are many variables to this (the device's display and artificial lighting) and how our brains/eyesight works. I'm no electrician but I believe theres power phasing and light-types that can cause "frame rate" effects, and so maybe that also contributes to why some people can and can't detect it. Plus our optic nerves have a frame rate so to speak, and theres a signal processing factor because our brain is taking in many signals and has to decide what it's seeing by using algorithms.

The majority of things we see similarly, but the items that we can categorize as fringe or abnormal or artifacts, the signal processing in our brain processes them very differently. Especially at night. And especially as our optical lens shape changes. At night, a 56 year old woman is going to process headlights and street lights very differently from her 5 year old grandkids, and how those two process motion will also differ.

In addition to the ability to detect, I think there's also a personal reaction element to it. I can clearly see the jelly scroll but it doesn't bother me in the least - I never noticed it until reading about people being bothered by it. It's akin to fingernails on a blackboard - it will drive some people crazy while to others it's just a sound.

 

[6749974]

In addition to the ability to detect, I think there's also a personal reaction element to it. I can clearly see the jelly scroll but it doesn't bother me in the least - I never noticed it until reading about people being bothered by it. It's akin to fingernails on a blackboard - it will drive some people crazy while to others it's just a sound.

Yes, completely agree. That too. Three areas of the brain are responsible for OCD—and while we may not have OCD—I'm assuming those regions of the brain are what get triggered by errors, artifacts, and abnormal patters. Whether blooming, jelly scroll, or noticing Geek Squad mounted our 85-inch TV unevenly—Super Bowl party ruined!—our brains choose for us whether we are distracted by them or not, bothered by them or not.

And some can get used to it after day three, and others not. How many of us have bought an expensive Apple device only to notice an imperfection on the chassis or in assembly of keyboard and screen? Many will return it because they are annoyed, many will not be bothered enough to return it.

 

[Antoniosmalakia]

Having the Mini LED technology in the MacBook Pro, and using my non Mini LED screened iPad Pro and OLED iPhone next to one another frequently, I'm not offended by any of them with regard to quality. Early reviews of the iPad and MacBook Pros showed they suffered from blooming, so the OLED would eradicate that, but I'm not sure for me either the Mini LED or OLED would be enough for me to upgrade. A12z is still super snappy.

 

[nj-morris]

It doesn't need it by any means, but it's very nice to have. I'm looking forward to watching Netflix shows on a 13-inch OLED screen.

 

[TheRealAlex]

I’ve had my 2021 12.9” iPP with MiniLED since it released and it’s just as good as it was day one.

I am intrigued but not excited by the upcoming OLED iPads. I’m not convinced it’s an upgrade. I certainly don’t need the speed, so the display alone may not make sense either.

MiniLED is already better for peak HDR brightness and the blooming is either not noticeable with this many dimming zones or doesn’t ever bother me. The only gripe I have is the response time. 120hz is nice but there’s motion blur due to relatively poor response times. OLED would improve on this and I can see where artists might notice the difference, especially if they make it 240hz because that would be buttery smooth.

So yeah, my theory is they are going to have to improve the refresh rate for it to be a worthwhile switch, unless they have sourced some insanely bright OLED panels.

Years ago, I converted everything I own in Tech to OLED, now I’ve switched to QD-OLED and switching to 240hz QD-OLED as fast as I can. It’s just magical. And that’s enough I like pretty things.

 

[teh_hunterer]

I’ve had my 2021 12.9” iPP with MiniLED since it released and it’s just as good as it was day one.

I am intrigued but not excited by the upcoming OLED iPads. I’m not convinced it’s an upgrade. I certainly don’t need the speed, so the display alone may not make sense either.

It's not necessarily supposed to entice people like you with the very latest model to upgrade.

It's definitely an upgrade to those on the 11" LCD iPads though.

For the recent 12.9" users the screen itself won't be that much of an upgrade, but that's not the point. The screen tech might allow thinner and lighter iPads though.

 

[ric22]

miniLED display on iPad Pro has two big problems:

1. For 120Hz displays to work properly (ie. crystal clarity during motion) the pixel response needs to be 8.3 milliseconds or lower. Guess what the pixel response is on the 12.9-inch iPad Pro? Answer: 37.53 milliseconds (source). That means its 4.5x too slow. Result: instead of clear imagery, you get smearing and loss of detail during motion, which is the opposite result of what 120Hz is supposed to bring to our computing experience. Here is a gif showing what smearing looks like on an iPad Pro (try to read the text, or see icon detail, while its moving).
2. The main sell of mini LED backlighting is that dark scenes in movies and TV shows are supposed to no longer distract with IPS glow (the light behind the panel, which is why black looks more like a very dark gray). The problem is Apple's implementation and algorithm isn't good enough on such a thin device. So instead of perfect cinematography, you'll watch dark scenes get halos and blotches of light around people and light objects. Here is an image of the iPad Pro displaying blooming during AppleTV's own Severance (great show by the way!). Also when people move, a trail of light follows them (which I'll call ghosting). Here is a gif of the MacBook Pro doing it, which also has mini LED backlighting.

How does OLED solve this?

1. 120Hz needs a pixel response of 8.3 ms or less. Well OLED has a pixel response of less than 1 ms. This is why ProMotion on OLED iPhones are crystal clear.
2. OLED pixels are self-emissive, so there is no backlighting behind the pixels to create blooming. This is why OLED iPhones have no blooming.

[By the way, these issues apply to the MacBook Pros. In fact, the MBP pixel response is 2x worse than the iPad Pros. Apple will resolve that when they move to OLED in 2026]

Haven't MBP screens been getting gradually better? Perhaps getting "less bad" is more fitting. The pixel response is very poor, still, though.

Isn't white uniformity the big problem with OLED on a tablet? Most OLED screens seem to suffer uniformity problems, and it'll be exposed more on a tablet than a phone, I suspect. My own 15PM screen is very nice, but in landscape is noticeably cool on one side and warm on the other, especially at night with night shift turned on.

 

[ric22]

I think it's actually smaller due to bezel shrink and aspect ratio change (it's close)

The joke doesn't land here as much as on other products, but I worry their desire for MOAR SCREEN!! will lead to a larger Mini next time around at some point

I do suspect we'll get an 8.7" Mini before long- especially if the phones grow again this year!

I would have gifted the last Mini to my mum, but I was put off by the 50% price bump the thing got in the UK vs the previous generation, and still with a pathetic and unacceptable 64GB of storage. My 12 year old iPad had that amount!

 

[6749974]

Haven't MBP screens been getting gradually better? Perhaps getting "less bad" is more fitting. The pixel response is very poor, still, though.

My guess is that blooming hasn't gotten any better because any notable improvements would have likely been publicized by reviewers and emphasized by users on social media.

Regarding pixel response, Apple made improvements for the M2 MBP Pro generation—yey!!!—then surprised us all by reversing that improvement for the M3 Pro MBP generation—and seemingly made it way worse! Check out these numbers:

	M1 Pro, 14-inch MBP	M2 Pro, 14-inch MBP	M3, 14-inch MBP
Response Time Grey 50% / Grey 80%	58.4 ms	35.2 ms	69 ms
Response Time Black / White	40.4 ms	26.4 ms	75.2 ms
Source	Notebookcheck.net	Notebookcheck.net	Notebookcheck.net

[Notebook check didn't publish these numbers for the M3 Pro or M3 Max review because I assume its redundant testing from the M3 review.]

 

[ric22]

My guess is that blooming hasn't gotten any better because any notable improvements would have likely been publicized by reviewers and emphasized by users on social media.

Regarding pixel response, Apple made improvements for the M2 MBP Pro generation—yey!!!—then surprised us all by reversing that improvement for the M3 Pro MBP generation—and seemingly made it way worse! Check out these numbers:

	M1 Pro, 14-inch MBP	M2 Pro, 14-inch MBP	M3, 14-inch MBP
Response Time Grey 50% / Grey 80%	58.4 ms	35.2 ms	69 ms
Response Time Black / White	40.4 ms	26.4 ms	75.2 ms
Source	Notebookcheck.net	Notebookcheck.net	Notebookcheck.net

[Notebook check didn't publish these numbers for the M3 Pro or M3 Max review because I assume its redundant testing from the M3 review.]

Wow, that is bad! I saw another review with different figures recently that suggested the M2 wasn't as quick as above, and the M3 was a little better. Either way, it's very poor.

 

[Rafterman]

I do suspect we'll get an 8.7" Mini before long- especially if the phones grow again this year!

I would have gifted the last Mini to my mum, but I was put off by the 50% price bump the thing got in the UK vs the previous generation, and still with a pathetic and unacceptable 64GB of storage. My 12 year old iPad had that amount!

8.7 for a Mini doesn't make sense, since regular iPads are already 9 inches and change. Its not a Mini anymore, if it gets any bigger.

 

[Kevinm1]

I was thinking in the same lines as the OP. When I compare the screen on my iPhone 15 Pro Max to my IPP 12.9 M1, I don't see any noticeable differences.

Also, while I don't have a MBP, from all the reviews I've seen, the screen seems to hold its own against OLEDs on windows (granted they don't have the double OLED layers).

 

[prospervic]

I was thinking in the same lines as the OP. When I compare the screen on my iPhone 15 Pro Max to my IPP 12.9 M1, I don't see any noticeable differences.

I did the same comparison and I did notice that the colors appear richer (more saturated) on the OLED iPhone 15PM.
But this could be due the increased pixel density of the much smaller screen. The colors on my M1 12.9 look similarly richer/bolder compared to the miniLED display on my 16-inch M1 MBP.

 

[nawoo]

my OLED ip 15P's screen is way better than MBP. The black levels are absolute black. How can people not tell the difference?
With the MBP, you can see it's clearly not absolute black

 

[ric22]

8.7 for a Mini doesn't make sense, since regular iPads are already 9 inches and change. Its not a Mini anymore, if it gets any bigger.

I didn't claim it made sense, just that I suspect it'll happen. If the regular one is 9.7 now, I bet that'll grow eventually too...

 

[Jackbequickly]

I just do not see OLED will improve my experience over my M2 iPad Pro. Some additional feature my change my mind but it will take more than a landscape camera.

 

[ric22]

I just do not see OLED will improve my experience over my M2 iPad Pro. Some additional feature my change my mind but it will take more than a landscape camera.

Apple do not expect people to upgrade from one generation to the next, on iPhones, iPads or Macs. There can be no justification for it unless the users simply have money to burn.

What features would you like that would justify an upgrade from an M2 iPad Pro in the future?

 

[6749974]

I just do not see OLED will improve my experience over my M2 iPad Pro. Some additional feature my change my mind but it will take more than a landscape camera.

Will reluctant buyers change their mind when they see OLED in person?

Still—ric22 is right—Apple doesn’t expect urgent upgrading from people who just spent $1000+ mere months ago.

• Apple is advertising to the 60% of tablet owners that have non-Apple tablets (Eg android, windows).
• Apple is targeting the 40% of tablet owners who do have iPads but they are older with edge-lit LCD screens and non-M chips, which is most of us iPad owners.
• Finally Apple are targeting non-tablet owners which is the largest market of customers to convince.

So Apple is targeting the 99% of the human population that does not have an 12.9” M2 iPad Pro, and those people will be impressed guaranteed.

 

[rkuo]

Will reluctant buyers change their mind when they see OLED in person?

Still—ric22 is right—Apple doesn’t expect urgent upgrading from people who just spent $1000+ mere months ago.

• Apple is advertising to the 60% of tablet owners that have non-Apple tablets (Eg android, windows).
• Apple is targeting the 40% of tablet owners who do have iPads but they are older with edge-lit LCD screens and non-M chips, which is most of us iPad owners.
• Finally Apple are targeting non-tablet owners which is the largest market of customers to convince.

So Apple is targeting the 99% of the human population that does not have an 12.9” M2 iPad Pro, and those people will be impressed guaranteed.

I think the reality is most of those people won't care. There still isn't a compelling reason to get an iPad for most people ... it's in third string after the smartphone and a PC/Mac. The iPad is undoubtedly the best tablet, but the pricing makes it a tough sell since you have to see the value in the tablet sized form factor and a largely content consumption only usage model.

 

[ric22]

I think the reality is most of those people won't care. There still isn't a compelling reason to get an iPad for most people ... it's in third string after the smartphone and a PC/Mac. The iPad is undoubtedly the best tablet, but the pricing makes it a tough sell since you have to see the value in the tablet sized form factor and a largely content consumption only usage model.

The prices do seem out of synch with the reality of iPads as predominantly a consumption device. A 'decent' iPad with a modernish processor costs double what I paid for my then top of the range iPad, 12 years ago, and the storage amount is a decade out of date now. They're not even a consideration for most people that have a modern larger iPhone and a laptop. They're handy for kids and the elderly, but the pricing for those markets is much too high, IMO.

Add multiple user accounts and they'd be worthwhile for many more households, including mine. But it still wouldn't be an essential buy.

A proper file system and grown up OS would also make them more useful for uni students, who sometimes use them because they like to annotate slides- at the moment most students seem to be going for Windows convertibles because those have a proper OS and a screen they can write on without forking out for a hideously expensive Apple Pencil, and also don't need to buy a separate keyboard. The prices for the accessories are prohibitive. They're crazy.

 

[6749974]

I think the reality is most of those people won't care. There still isn't a compelling reason to get an iPad for most people ... it's in third string after the smartphone and a PC/Mac. The iPad is undoubtedly the best tablet, but the pricing makes it a tough sell since you have to see the value in the tablet sized form factor and a largely content consumption only usage model.

Apple sells 3x more iPads than Macs.

And 1/3rd of iPads sold are the 12.9-inch iPad Pro.

So Apple sells more iPad Pros (when including the 11-inch) than Apple sells Macs.

So who doesn't care about iPad Pros?

 

[6749974]

The prices do seem out of synch with the reality of iPads as predominantly a consumption device. A 'decent' iPad with a modernish processor costs double what I paid for my then top of the range iPad, 12 years ago, and the storage amount is a decade out of date now. They're not even a consideration for most people that have a modern larger iPhone and a laptop. They're handy for kids and the elderly, but the pricing for those markets is much too high, IMO.

Add multiple user accounts and they'd be worthwhile for many more households, including mine. But it still wouldn't be an essential buy.

A proper file system and grown up OS would also make them more useful for uni students, who sometimes use them because they like to annotate slides- at the moment most students seem to be going for Windows convertibles because those have a proper OS and a screen they can write on without forking out for a hideously expensive Apple Pencil, and also don't need to buy a separate keyboard. The prices for the accessories are prohibitive. They're crazy.

I think you're rightly touching on a design problem that Apple could have solved a decade ago but Apple—being stubborn or whatever—want it to be this third product that doesn't replace Macs, so their OS development is like watching a snail climb a tree—and they want every kid in the household to have their own iPad so there is no sharing accounts. Its infuriating.

It feels like they are headed in the right direction, but instead of having done it in 10 years (so 2020) they're dragging their feet so it takes 30 years. So expect the perfect iPad in 2040. Only 16 years to go.

 

[ric22]

Apple sells 3x more iPads than Macs.

And 1/3rd of iPads sold are the 12.9-inch iPad Pro.

So Apple sells more iPad Pros (when including the 11-inch) than Apple sells Macs.

So who doesn't care about iPad Pros?

Source, please? Mac revenue is still well above iPad revenue... though perhaps the average iPad costs under 1/3 the cost? But then the average iPad can't be a Pro? 🧐

 

[ric22]

I think you're rightly touching on a design problem that Apple could have solved a decade ago but Apple—being stubborn or whatever—want it to be this third product that doesn't replace Macs, so their OS development is like watching a snail climb a tree—and they want every kid in the household to have their own iPad so there is no sharing accounts. Its infuriating.

It feels like they are headed in the right direction, but instead of having done it in 10 years (so 2020) they're dragging their feet so it takes 30 years. So expect the perfect iPad in 2040. Only 16 years to go.

I agree. They don't want to have to stop gimping it. It's infuriating they advertise it as a laptop replacement, they make its hardware laptop class, then cripple it in software!

 

[Ludatyk]

It feels like they are headed in the right direction, but instead of having done it in 10 years (so 2020) they're dragging their feet so it takes 30 years. So expect the perfect iPad in 2040. Only 16 years to go.

And even then… it still won’t be enough lol.

I agree. They don't want to have to stop gimping it. It's infuriating they advertise it as a laptop replacement, they make its hardware laptop class, then cripple it in software!

Because it can be for a vast number of folks… you might not fall into that group, but for some they can make it work. Eventually the features you want from macOS could trickle down to the iPad, but until then… there’s the Mac.