Now that Apple are nearly as big as Microsoft, would they become less 'cool'?

[spinnerlys]

I'd like to see Apple deliver mid towers and possibly release OS X for free. Yes, for free. Not necessarily open-source but free to download from apple.com/mac. I know a lot of sour Vista users who now think they need to shell out coin for 7. Maybe I'm wrong but maybe a free OS X would drum up more hardware sales. Buy our Mac and upgrade the OS for free when 10.7 and 10.8 rolls around. No need to worry about Mac OS X Ultimate costing $270.

But Mac OS X is free with every new Mac, and why would a free Mac OS X boost hardware sales? For example, you have a 2010 iMac and Mac OS X 10.8 comes along in 2013, for free. Why would that be an incentive to buy a new Mac, when that new Mac comes with Mac OS X preinstalled? Just because it would be 50€ cheaper (I doubt that 120USD is added for the OS alone to any Mac price, see Mac Mini Server).

 

[KingYaba]

People already get OS X for free along with their hardware purchase. People shouldn't be entitled for a major new OS that's years in the future. Those years of development cost tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars per year, the only way Apple get those cost back is to sell it for 130$ which is already the best price you can get for an OS that's going to last you for two-three years or to push new hardware sales with the new OS.

People already get Windows for free along with their hardware purchase. It's not about being entitled, it's about restoring Apple's coolness. We can translate coolness into a business that kicks some ass. And I suspect hardware sales will pickup the slack where that $130 OS left off. Apple has a brilliant marketing team they can make it work.

I don't get this entitlement that people should get free software, seriously.

It's not entitlement and I'm not necessarily talking about software. I'm talking about OS X. Google is a stone's throw away from an OS and if any Linux OS will stand a chance against Microsoft and Apple I'm betting my dollar on an OS backed by Google. I know they're doing their cloud thing but that can change. I suspect it will. I think it would be wise to continually lower the price of OS X and eventually give it away as a free download to all Mac users. I seriously think that would continue to erode Microsoft's desktop base because they couldn't compete with that. Google has slowly done their own application stuff and it stands to reason that they'll offer an operating system to do it all on... conveniently.

I have to ask because I'd rather not assume. What's your stance on open-source software?

 

[MikhailT]

Let me rephrase my post. Non iPhone OSX development, i.e., updates/upgrades to OSX is taking a back burner as apple focuses on the mobile market.


That's my point, OSX is not getting the attention because apple is looking to leverage its other products. So in a sense you're agreeing with me that OSX is on the back burner.

Ok, my turn to rephrase. I don't agree that it's on the backburner, more like it's on the side burner that usually don't show itself. Apple doesn't have a single team just working on the iPhoneOS. Look at the intel switch, they had two parallel teams working on two different ports of OS X for FIVE YEARS. We don't know for a fact that Apple isn't working on the next generation of OS that could blow all of us away.

 

[MikhailT]

People already get Windows for free along with their hardware purchase. It's not about being entitled, it's about restoring Apple's coolness. We can translate coolness into a business that kicks some ass. And I suspect hardware sales will pickup the slack where that $130 OS left off. Apple has a brilliant marketing team they can make it work.

Restoring Apple's coolness? I'm pretty sure Apple hasn't lost any right now. If some people thinks Apple has lost their cool, it has nothing to do with the price of the OS and with something else.

There's nothing to pick up where the OS X for free will leave.

People who buy OS X separately are not going to get a new Mac, they bought the OS to give their hardware more life. No increase in hardware sales there.

People who don't buy hardware because of OS X cost are not going to buy hardware just because the OS X has gone free and not because they get two free OS upgrades. The hardware cost itself is the barrier, not the OS X.

Apple shouldn't cheapen the brand of OS X just because you think it'll restore the "coolness" of Apple.

The only benefit I could think for you, is the hackintosh people. But that won't increase the sales of the hardware that much.

Also the biggest praise people have for OS X price? One price all the time for one version. 129$ for OS X. Snow Leopard was an exception because it wasn't a user feature pack upgrade but Apple priced it accordingly and 10.1 was free because 10.0 was just a disaster.

There's never going to be a different version of OSX and the only time the price will change from 129$ is for inflation and dollar value going down.

There's no reason for dropping the price down to zero, Google releasing an OS will not change anything against Apple. Only to Microsoft. People don't normally like to install their own OS and normally just buy a desktop and use the OS that comes on it.

If Google wants to get their OS out, they need to have it preinstalled just like MS and Apple. Again, the price of the OS doesn't come in the factor here. Nobody sees the price of the OS when buying them.

If People are going to install an OS themselves, than what's the difference between Google's OS and any other distro?

It's not entitlement and I'm not necessarily talking about software. I'm talking about OS X. Google is a stone's throw away from an OS and if any Linux OS will stand a chance against Microsoft and Apple I'm betting my dollar on an OS backed by Google. I know they're doing their cloud thing but that can change. I suspect it will. I think it would be wise to continually lower the price of OS X and eventually give it away as a free download to all Mac users. I seriously think that would continue to erode Microsoft's desktop base because they couldn't compete with that. Google has slowly done their own application stuff and it stands to reason that they'll offer an operating system to do it all on... conveniently.

Chrome OS for desktop itself is the one that's going to erode MS market share, not Apple and dropping the price to OS X to zero will not increase the erosion of MS because once again, you have to buy Macs in order to use OS X.

That's the biggest difference between Google/Microsoft and Apple.

Google's application stack is entirely online based. People can continue to use their applications on any OS they choose. What will make Chrome OS different from any other linux OS? Google will face the same fragmentation issue that they're facing with Android, they'll be battling not with just Microsoft but with the clones as well.

I have to ask because I'd rather not assume. What's your stance on open-source software?

I don't have any problem with the open source movement, my problems are with some people behind the movement who thinks other companies should be freeing their source code and people who thinks everybody should be using open source software only and ban all closed sourced code.

I encourage open source, I agree with that everything should be open and accessible to all mankind but I can't force the ideology onto mankind.

It's practically the same way I feel about religion.

 

[Tanto]

It appears to me that apple is dedicating more energy and focus on their phone/tablet offerings then their desktop lines at the moment. My concernis that this will turn into a trend.

They've already stated that they're a mobile device company not a computer company.

I think that stems from the power of laptops these days. Sure, it used to be that desktops were king (and they still are in strict terms of power and expandability) but laptops can run everything but games with ease these days and most people DON'T play intensive games so it's a market shift IMO. I travel a lot so although I do have a desktop at home, I don't use it nearly half as much as my MacBook Pro.

I think the convenience of having a highly portable laptop and something like an iPhone is the real future of computing and since Apple does not necessarily have a whole lot going for it in the business sector (to be fair the iPhone IS being used more and more) so to focus on the trend of consumers is smart business.

The other thing that I've seen from my travels is that in most other countries, families are large and they don't have huge houses so the bulk of a desktop, monitor, desk, etc. is a bit too much in terms of space so they use a laptop or netbook to fufill their computing needs.

Apple's products are still cooler than most anything else in the market as far as ease of use, simplicity, and general construction but there is always room for improvement. Apple is sitting on a massive amount of liquid assets at the moment, $25 Billion if I remember the article I read correctly so it has made some people speculate as to what Apple intends to do with so much "cash" on hand. HTC has grown a lot in the past couple of years with their touch interface cellphones and now that they are a threat (albeit small) it seems Apple is trying to force out competition with brute force tactics because HTC just can't fight Apple with the amount of money each respective party has to fight a lawsuit battle. One of the high execs on Google's board also sits on the Apple board so I think Apple is well-positioned to at one point formally join sides with Google. Android is certainly a well-thought out product and sure it competes with Apple in the cellphone market but the reality is that both use open standards which will boil down to how well each company utilizes and presents their respective OS's functionality and overall appearance.

 

[Tanto]

@King_Yaba:

When you purchase a computer with Windows on it, the price is already built into the overall cost so although it's transparent to the consumer, it's actually not free.

Interestingly, most of the netbooks offer a very basic version of Windows called Windows Basic that leaves you wanting for the full functionality and MS wisely peppers you with the option to upgrade to a Home/Pro/Ultimate version online for a hefty fee. That's smart in terms of generating revenue, but I personally find it appalling because it just gives you a taste of what you can have and then you feel compelled to shuck out another $140 or so for the full monty.

 

[DaReal_Dionysus]

Lets not be deceived everyone into believing that the computer side of apple is as big as the MS customer base. What has made Apple big is iPhone, iPod and iTunes and thats the bottom line. Apple computers are still a very very small piece of the proverbial pie.

 

[maflynn]

Lets not be deceived everyone into believing that the computer side of apple is as big as the MS customer base.

Agreed, apple only enjoys around an 8% marketshare.

I also understand that apple's greatest opportunity for increased profits is in the mobile sector. However the Macintosh is one of their core products and letting that whither on the vine is a disservice to its customers and to themselves. Just look when apple updated the Mac Pro line, they just updated the MBP line after an extended delay. People got tired of waiting and moved on to windows 7 where some people do believe its an excellent product.

I think apple is enamored with the mobile sector and its affecting new products on their desktop/laptop lines.

 

[MikhailT]

Apple is sitting on a massive amount of liquid assets at the moment, $25 Billion if I remember the article I read correctly so it has made some people speculate as to what Apple intends to do with so much "cash" on hand.

It's practically doubled now, $42B. $23B in pure cash and another $20B long term investments that's almost as pure as cash. Remember that Apple has zero debts. This compares to MS $40B in cash with $6B in debt. This is based off Sept 09 numbers. I dunno the latest numbers right now.

 

[Yiako]

Agreed, apple only enjoys around an 8% marketshare.

I also understand that apple's greatest opportunity for increased profits is in the mobile sector. However the Macintosh is one of their core products and letting that whither on the vine is a disservice to its customers and to themselves. Just look when apple updated the Mac Pro line, they just updated the MBP line after an extended delay. People got tired of waiting and moved on to windows 7 where some people do believe its an excellent product.

I think apple is enamored with the mobile sector and its affecting new products on their desktop/laptop lines.

What a crap load of bu...it. I'm sorry but I'm TIRED of reading / hearing that argument since the Ipod explosion.

The FACTS (just note: facts; not "thinking", not "understanding") is that Apple is selling more Macs that ever, and quarter by quarter they're breaking its own records selling Macs. So the idea of that they are just putting mac developement aside is just laughable.

 

[Consultant]

Size doesn't matter.
Apple can no longer play the underdog card, but recently it has pushed "cool". If its products don't continue to innovate and be "cool" (in a way that Microsoft's product line NEVER were), then it will lose it's cachet.

Perhaps someone does not know Apple is still the underdog in an industry dominated by the Microsoft monopoly?

Apple had (using past tense on purpose) been viewed by many as cool in part because they were the underdog, producing some very different products that no one else was. Being non-mainstream seems to be a coolness facet.

Now that they are a dominant force in many of the sectors and are acting very big brother like and they are also dealing with potentially 3 different government inquiries/investigations to anti-competitive business practices are they still being viewed as cool? Will their dominance, negative press or even the government investigations (even if they don't amount to anything) impact apple's perceived coolness factor.

I've noticed an uptick in anti-apple sentiment, in both the intarweb and the real world. Yeah there's always been apple-haters but now it seems many people who would have been attracted to apple, are pushing back.

Does familiarity breeds contempt, will it be uncool to have an apple device because everyone and their mothers own apple devices?

Apple is cool because its products change the world.

The more successful a company is, the more FUD its competitors throw at it.

apple will always remain 'cool' in my opinion cause they will always be different. Its not just another computer company, its one that stands out from all the rest. I know you can't really compare apple to, lets say, HP, cause HP are windows orientated, but lets face it - apple is always going to have that unique niche user base - the aforementioned cult - the people like us on this site - whilst their products may be more consumer orientated, and as someone mentioned the latest fashion can change things - is the iPhone already not like the most popular phone? Has that made it less cool? Not in my opinion. Also, as someone mentioned, alot of people won't know that apple are bigger than Microsoft anyway. Macs will always have that magic that is 'mac' - Its mostly gone away for me now, but I remember when I used to dream of having a mac! I just think that cause they will always be different, they will always stand of from the rest, keeping their 'cool'.

This explains it pretty well.

 

[maflynn]

Perhaps someone does not know Apple is still the underdog in an industry dominated by the Microsoft monopoly?

On the desktop perhaps, but in the mobile devices, they are a dominant player. That's the problem they've been accused of using their position to harm competition.

Apple is cool because its products change the world.

Oh please stop drinking the kool aid and you'll see that apple has not changed the world.

The more successful a company is, the more FUD its competitors throw at it.

Usually its the other way around, the more successful company uses FUD to keep their competitors off balance. Microsoft did it to apple and ibm, intel did it AMD, Heck Lotus was doing it to Microsoft back in the day. Now its Apple's turn to use FUD, its not FUD when they do it is it.

 

[iMac4Ever56]

It appears to me that apple is dedicating more energy and focus on their phone/tablet offerings then their desktop lines at the moment. My concernis that this will turn into a trend.

They've already stated that they're a mobile device company not a computer company.

If There a Mobile Device Company Then Why Do They Bother Making Mac Pro Computers & iMac Computers & MacBook Computers & iMac Computers for The Kids to Play Games on Them & iPads & Why Did they Make The Apple TV & Why Do They Make Software Applications for The Computer?, They Specialize in All These Things & They Say there a Mobile Device Company? There a Lot More then just a Mobile Device Company if there Gonna Sell iMac Computers & all those other Computers they Have

 

[Schtumple]

To clarify, they exceeded market cap, which is useful for investors. In many ways, Apple is bigger and smaller than Microsoft. Market cap is not some magical number that makes one company suddenly bigger than another.

Exactly, in real world comparison, Apple is actually quite small compared to Microsoft, people just know Apple is a better investment than Microsoft.

 

[longball11]

Google is the next apple in computing industry. Or eventually someone will.

 

[iMac4Ever56]

Google does not make Computers right now just there google webpage & Apple is Bigger then Google, Cause Google don't have Stores Worldwide Yet

 

[TheSVD]

Google does not make Computers right now just there google webpage & Apple is Bigger then Google, Cause Google don't have Stores Worldwide Yet

Yeah, i guess its a point that google are not really a retail establishment as such, but they're slowly moving that way with android, chrome OS (if thats what its called?) and trying to compete with apple in a sense... But its hard to compare them in terms of computers at the minute because they're vastly different in that sense. To me it seems like goog will actually become a new microsoft of sorts, spreading their software through an array of different hardware rather than bespoke hardware....

An interesting comparison to make though my friend

I wonder what a google store would sell/look like

 

[294307]

I read about the rumour when Apple would have two different WWDC keynotes, one for OS X / Mac and another for iOS / iPhone / iPod ... and I think this is really needed because Apple are becoming ever more mainstream in the sense of customer base, etc. - more people are buying Apple products and it is true what others say, this means they're likely to purchase other Apple products. If someone bought iPhone they may end up buying their first Mac the year after as they love their iPhone experience. As Apple become more mainstream they need to be a bit more conservative with decisions that may get regulators eyebrows going (like in the case of modifications to iOS developer agreements - although I can understand why they made the developer agreement modification) so they don't get anti-trust eyebrows going with authorities in the US as Apple become ever more mainstream.

HP, Toshiba and other companies need to be worried because once people buy one Apple product they may end up buying others like their Mac lineup. Because of the Apple ecosystem Apple's market share can increase so much in a short term of time - its obvious. Antitrust regulators love it when they have companies to chase after. After all its their job.

I don't think it could cause Apple a lot of harm as you become mainstream, but Apple rely's on competition to make the very best products. They love competition as it drives them to innovate further and be perceived as the best company in the world with the very best products. What if Apple become to have one of the biggest market share's in terms of computers with consumers? - could it cause problems, failure, etc due to Apple's business model, niche, etc? Who knows.

 

[*LTD*]

Apple rely's on competition to make the very best products.

They don't actually do that.

They simply capitalize on the competition's stupidity, lack of taste and imagination. There's no focus on the User Experience, but feature-cramming. So Apple simply steps in with alternatives in a segment that lacks products with class, style, and ease of use. And presto, Apple delivers what's perceived as "premium" product, and the result is mad differentiation.

Have you seen the new Lenovo monstrosity? The A70z? It's dogs**t with a circuit-board attached.

These jokers make it way too easy for Apple.

 

[maflynn]

Google is the next apple in computing industry. Or eventually someone will.

Google does not make Computers right now just there google webpage & Apple is Bigger then Google, Cause Google don't have Stores Worldwide Yet

Difficult comparison because google doesn't make computers, and given the failure of the nexus experiment, I suspect google will stick with software over hardware. Google and Apple are competing more and more because google is entering business sectors that apple currently does business in, i.e., android OS.

 

[TheSVD]

Google and Apple are competing more and more because google is entering business sectors that apple currently does business in, i.e., android OS.

Yeah that sums it up pretty well... If I remember correctly Apple are annoyed because Google are entering the sectors of Apple, and Apple is not doing the same to Google - A rough quote was something like "well you don't see us going into the search business do you?"