Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

zalle

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jun 2, 2008
261
13
Hi guys,

I bought mini, m4, and a 4tb external NVME (Crucial T500), as well as an Orico 40gbps enclosure.

I get just under 3000Mbps speeds with the internal 250gb drive, and just over 3000Mbps speeds with the external one.

Problem is, I keep getting the drive disconnected. A few times a day. Could this be the enclosure or the NVME giving me this problem?

I'm thinking about buying a "better" (meaning more expensive) external enclosure, but maybe the Orico is not the culprit.

What do you think?

Thanks
 
Hi,

Only troubleshooting was changing port, checking if cable is well connected.

It is now connected to a USB A 3.1 (10gbps) hub, using the same cable, with a USB-C to USB-A adapter, and so far, it seems reliable, but it's 3x slower...
 
The hardware limitation of ONLY two bus powered external nvme/ssd just bit me hard.
Somehow, corrupted my system in the process during disconnecting/reconnecting.

I wont buy another apple product until this is corrected.
 
  • Like
Reactions: zalle
Mine is disconnecting even if it's the only SSD/HDD drive connected...
 
Both!!!!

During sleep, and sometimes, when I'm working, it just disconnects. What do you think could be?

I have it plugged into a hub now (about one day), only 10gbps, instead of 40... And it seems reliable, has not failed yet.

The thing is I invested in a 40gbps to use 40gbps, not 10...
 
Might need to update the firmware. Often these devices ship out with usable firmware but you need an in-field upgrade to the reliable firmware.
 
  • Like
Reactions: zalle
Have the disconnects recently started or have they happened from the very first time you started using the enclosure?

I did use an Orico 40Gb enclosure but returned is for an OWC 1M2 40Gb unit. The fan in the Orico drove me mad. But I have to say I didn’t suffer any disconnects while using it.

The OWC 1M2 has been rock solid and is basically a big heatsink so doesn’t need fan. I encloses a 4TB Samsung 990 Pro.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ruftzooi
Might need to update the firmware. Often these devices ship out with usable firmware but you need an in-field upgrade to the reliable firmware.

Can't find firmware for it... It's OricoM234C3-U4


Have the disconnects recently started or have they happened from the very first time you started using the enclosure?

I did use an Orico 40Gb enclosure but returned is for an OWC 1M2 40Gb unit. The fan in the Orico drove me mad. But I have to say I didn’t suffer any disconnects while using it.

The OWC 1M2 has been rock solid and is basically a big heatsink so doesn’t need fan. I encloses a 4TB Samsung 990 Pro.

My Orico has no fan.
 
Thanks for your help, but I wouldn't know where to start... If it was in Chinese, it would be the same for my thick skull...
 
Do you find it is related to sleep or is it just disconnecting while you are working and/or using it?
Both!!!!

During sleep, and sometimes, when I'm working, it just disconnects. What do you think could be?

A lot of other people have had issues around this. There doesn't seem to be one thing but rather any number of things that can lead to this and they are hard for the average (or even above average) consumer to diagnosis. It seems like to fully debug such things one needs protocols analyzers and the like that likely only engineers at related companies have.

Here is the thread that I remembered that prompted me to ask if it was sleep related:

Assuming you just have one Thunderbolt/USB4 device connected, your issue is likely not power related. Also with an M4 running Sequoia you are likely past early Apple bugs in this area (it's been debated whether early Apple Silicon's Thunderbolt/USB4 implementations were buggy at the hardware level).

As others have mentioned it is likely the Orico enclosure that is failing you based on what you've mentioned. Although relatively amazing compared to the hardware a few generations ago, the protocols involved in these things are complex. Even the cables can have microprocessors in them and the controller on your NVMe is faster than supercomputers from a few decades ago. It's really quite a stack of protocols sitting between the computer and the raw NAND chips to make them appear like the nice filesystem interface we all know and love. I am sure a lot of workarounds working around other's workarounds throughout. At this point however, it is unlikely Apple is going to change something to address whatever is going on with this enclosure and/or NVMe (note NVMe also have firmware and some NVMe/firmware combinations work better with some versions of macOS than others).

As such your two most practical options are:
a) Upgrade firmware on Orico -- either contact them and see if they have a solution or an on-request firmware upgrade (likely requiring a Windows system to load) or as others suggested hack the firmware from other brands of enclosures into this one
b) Buy and try other enclosures until you find one that works better

Although I am still amazed at SSD/NVMe technology relative to the old HDD, the consumer versions are very much an 80/20 technology. 80% chance they work and work well for 20% of the cost of enterprise/professional solutions. But if they don't, it's a bit of your time lost to debugging it all. Some hardware brands include better support.

I have it plugged into a hub now (about one day), only 10gbps, instead of 40... And it seems reliable, has not failed yet.

The thing is I invested in a 40gbps to use 40gbps, not 10...

Understood I would feel the same way.

Note for day-to-day productivity work I haven't noticed much benefit from Thunderbolt over USB3. Thunderbolt/NVMe is obviously much faster for dealing with large data files, video, etc but lots of other work is more bound by small operations that are latency bound. The performance of the two are similar enough that system responsiveness usually feels the same between the two. Although not having the performance you paid for may be irritating, restoring that performance may not be worth more of your time and/or money.
 
  • Like
Reactions: zalle and Brian33
My SanDisk Extreme SSD ( NVME ) also disconnects from my M4 Pro Mini when sleeping and resuming. It's frustrating.
 
  • Like
Reactions: zalle
No disconnects with my OWC 1M2 with Samsung 990 Pro in my M4 Mac Mini Pro. Perhaps I got lucky?

OWC is one of the companies that seems to invest time in ensuring their products meet standards and work well with Macs. For example:

Note a lot of the work they did there was getting Apple to address core OS issues.

Also note I don't have any OWC products at the moment but would definitely consider them for future purchases for Macs. I've also been impressed by the support I've gotten from Plugable (unfortunately last I checked they don't make an TB/NVMe enclosure so nothing to buy from them at the moment).
 
Note that I don’t have the same issues with my SanDisk on my M2 Pro MacBook Pro 16” or MacBook Air M1
 
  • Like
Reactions: zalle
A lot of other people have had issues around this. There doesn't seem to be one thing but rather any number of things that can lead to this and they are hard for the average (or even above average) consumer to diagnosis. It seems like to fully debug such things one needs protocols analyzers and the like that likely only engineers at related companies have.

Here is the thread that I remembered that prompted me to ask if it was sleep related:

Assuming you just have one Thunderbolt/USB4 device connected, your issue is likely not power related. Also with an M4 running Sequoia you are likely past early Apple bugs in this area (it's been debated whether early Apple Silicon's Thunderbolt/USB4 implementations were buggy at the hardware level).

As others have mentioned it is likely the Orico enclosure that is failing you based on what you've mentioned. Although relatively amazing compared to the hardware a few generations ago, the protocols involved in these things are complex. Even the cables can have microprocessors in them and the controller on your NVMe is faster than supercomputers from a few decades ago. It's really quite a stack of protocols sitting between the computer and the raw NAND chips to make them appear like the nice filesystem interface we all know and love. I am sure a lot of workarounds working around other's workarounds throughout. At this point however, it is unlikely Apple is going to change something to address whatever is going on with this enclosure and/or NVMe (note NVMe also have firmware and some NVMe/firmware combinations work better with some versions of macOS than others).

As such your two most practical options are:
a) Upgrade firmware on Orico -- either contact them and see if they have a solution or an on-request firmware upgrade (likely requiring a Windows system to load) or as others suggested hack the firmware from other brands of enclosures into this one
b) Buy and try other enclosures until you find one that works better

Although I am still amazed at SSD/NVMe technology relative to the old HDD, the consumer versions are very much an 80/20 technology. 80% chance they work and work well for 20% of the cost of enterprise/professional solutions. But if they don't, it's a bit of your time lost to debugging it all. Some hardware brands include better support.



Understood I would feel the same way.

Note for day-to-day productivity work I haven't noticed much benefit from Thunderbolt over USB3. Thunderbolt/NVMe is obviously much faster for dealing with large data files, video, etc but lots of other work is more bound by small operations that are latency bound. The performance of the two are similar enough that system responsiveness usually feels the same between the two. Although not having the performance you paid for may be irritating, restoring that performance may not be worth more of your time and/or money.


Thank you so much for the time and effort invested in this answer.

I guess I agree with you, maybe it's not worth the hassle. Maybe just use it as a 10gbps, and get a better one in the future. I was so happy with the 3200 write speed though...

One thing I did notice, is that the drive is MUCH cooler, when connected to a slower (10gbps) port, it was running very hot before. Could that be the issue? Temperature?
 
Note that I don’t have the same issues with my SanDisk on my M2 Pro MacBook Pro 16” or MacBook Air M1
What read/write speeds do you get when connected to the different computers?
 
If I were you, I would get the OWC. These are my r/w speeds to it.

DiskSpeedTest.png
 
  • Like
Reactions: zalle
Hi guys,

I downloaded Drive DX, and measured temperature. I put the nvme drive connected to the M4 mini's back port (40gbps), and put it under load (Blackmagic reading and writing).

It started to warm up pretty fast, and disconnected when it reached 80 degrees Celsius.

So the problem is... Temperature! Could it be the Crucial T500 gets too hot? Or is it the Orico enclosure that does not manage heat well, and is not up to the job?

With a fan pointed directly at the drive, temperature will stay under 55º Celsius under load, and it doesn't seem to disconnect.

When connected to normal usb-c ports, 10gbps, the enclosure does not heat up much, and I haven't seen it disconnecting.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: MacCheetah3
I use USB powered fans for my external drives.
I also have one pointed to the front of my elevated M4 Mac Mini Pro.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.