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NVME enclosure failing on me...
- Thread starter zalle
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That's one of those things that I should have remembered to ask but yes overheating could cause disconnects. NVMe drives typically start throttling at 70-85 deg C. If it gets above that it could just turn itself off. Or at least pause in a way that the system decides it is offline anyway.
USB3/10Gbps provides a natural throttle.
I don't know the Orico but it sounds like the enclosure isn't dissipating the heat from the drive -- perhaps the drive's thermal pad isn't pressing tightly enough against the enclosure walls? Or maybe it just isn't good at dissipating the drive's heat....enclosures with fans do keep drives cooler but of course that could mean fan noise. Or course pointing an outside fan right at the enclosure might do the same thing but guessing that is suboptimal for you.
I've managed to get temperature under control, I believe. I guess I was making some mistakes myself: I had the encasing cover open (I thought it would be cooler, but I guess it's the other way round). I also put a 2nd thermal pad under the nvme (only had one on top, under the mini thermal sink).
It's now about 50º Celsius, and it will go up to 62-64ºC under load. Is this still too hot? I'm also at a warm location, about 25ºC inside the room.
But, it did disconnect tonight, when I put my mini to sleep. Maybe I'll just turn off the monitor next time, to see what happens.
It's now about 50º Celsius, and it will go up to 62-64ºC under load. Is this still too hot? I'm also at a warm location, about 25ºC inside the room.
But, it did disconnect tonight, when I put my mini to sleep. Maybe I'll just turn off the monitor next time, to see what happens.
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Cooler is always better with these things but I'd say you're now fine if it stays under 65 deg C even under full load.
You may be on to a different issue with similar symptoms. If it can go days to weeks without disconnects as long as you don't put the system to sleep then I'd say your main issue was heat which you've solved. Then the sleep-related disconnects likely a separate issue and more likely on Apple's side.
In which case you might try Sequoia 15.6 if you haven't already upgraded. There was a report that it solved the headphone output disappearing after sleep. Completely different subsystems but its repair indicates that Apple was working on bugs of that nature as late as 15.5->15.6.
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I’ve stacked thermal pads in some enclosures. It’s not as optimal, but any physical contact (with a thermal conductive material) is better than none as air doesn’t have a superb conductivity — hence the explanation to the previous.
Those temps seem much more reasonable. FYI, you should be able to see the drive’s temperature threshold (“Temperature Limit Min/Max”) in DriveDx.
Here are mine:
The TM drive runs a little warmer, most likely because the enclosure doesn’t have quite as much surface area as the OWC 1M2. Room temp varies between ~21ºC and 27ºC.
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I'm no expert on nvme drives and enclosures.
I only have one -- a USB3.1 gen2 enclosure (don't even remember who made it) that accepts an nvme blade SSD.
But it's worth noting that the very first thing I noticed when using it is... it gets HOT under load. It also seems to "throttle back" as it heats up -- runs at slower speeds.
From other posts I've read here, nvme v. overheating seems to be a common problem. Something about this form factor just causes many (most?) blade drives to run "on the hot side".
Another issue may be the way the drive enclosures (or, the controller boards IN the enclosures) handle "sleep" on the Mac. Or, it could be the way Apple's thunderbolt (and USB) controllers deal with the presence of connected devices when initiating sleep AND later when "waking back up".
Perhaps the controller in the Mac just "shuts down" the tbolt/USB bus, without making note of "what's there". And then, when waking up, either the Mac doesn't have "a recollection" of what was there, or doesn't send out some kind of "query" to see what actually IS there. And perhaps some devices, upon the "livening up" of the bus, don't automatically resend (to the Mac) an alert to re-mount them.
Aside:
Who here remembers "SCSI Probe"?
We could use something like that for tbolt AND for USB...
As may have already been mentioned, this may have something to do with the particular controller chip in the enclosure. How many here remember back with firewire, when the "Oxford 911" (I think that was it) was the preferred chip to have in external firewire enclosures...?
Again, no expert.
Just some thoughts...
I only have one -- a USB3.1 gen2 enclosure (don't even remember who made it) that accepts an nvme blade SSD.
But it's worth noting that the very first thing I noticed when using it is... it gets HOT under load. It also seems to "throttle back" as it heats up -- runs at slower speeds.
From other posts I've read here, nvme v. overheating seems to be a common problem. Something about this form factor just causes many (most?) blade drives to run "on the hot side".
Another issue may be the way the drive enclosures (or, the controller boards IN the enclosures) handle "sleep" on the Mac. Or, it could be the way Apple's thunderbolt (and USB) controllers deal with the presence of connected devices when initiating sleep AND later when "waking back up".
Perhaps the controller in the Mac just "shuts down" the tbolt/USB bus, without making note of "what's there". And then, when waking up, either the Mac doesn't have "a recollection" of what was there, or doesn't send out some kind of "query" to see what actually IS there. And perhaps some devices, upon the "livening up" of the bus, don't automatically resend (to the Mac) an alert to re-mount them.
Aside:
Who here remembers "SCSI Probe"?
We could use something like that for tbolt AND for USB...
As may have already been mentioned, this may have something to do with the particular controller chip in the enclosure. How many here remember back with firewire, when the "Oxford 911" (I think that was it) was the preferred chip to have in external firewire enclosures...?
Again, no expert.
Just some thoughts...
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You’re not wrong. I’ve had several enclosures over the years. The latest, I’ve opted for USB4. In fact, the 1M2 and the knockoff both use a variant of the Asmedia 246 chipset.
ASMedia Technology Inc.
ASMedia Technology was founded in 2004 and went public in 2012 (stock code: 5269.TW). Headquarter is located in Taiwan. ASMedia specializes in high-speed interface technologies with strong expertise in high-speed SERDES in house development. Company strives for continual innovation and the...
As far as (USB) controller/bridge options, the household name brands are Asmedia, JMicron, Realtek, and Intel.
List of fastest USB4 ASM2464PD, JHL9480, and JHL7440 SSD enclosures (Feb 2025)
[2025/02/21 – Additional TB5 JHL9480 models] IntroductionFastest external M.2 SSD enclosuresThunderbolt 5 JHL9480 enclosuresUSB4 ASM2464PD SSD enclosuresRetail modelsODM modelsThunderbolt 3 J…
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Most definitely, they run hot. They are high performance devices, nonetheless, another problem is the physical size. Just like the heatsink, the physical size of the thing you’re trying to cool matters. Even if the heatsink itself is massive, the heat dissipation from a 1 cm squared die is not great. In other words, it’s a lot of concentrated heat to move through a tiny space. Also think about it like this, HDD are warm to the touch, and they’re substantially larger, even the 2.5-inch form factor. Tradeoffs.
P.S. The vast majority of heat is generated by the SSD’s controller chip, not the NAND modules.
Well, this is the second time I leave it for hours (put the monitor to sleep, and let the mini manage it's own energy.
I believe I will leave it plugged to a normal usb-c port, and just use it at 40gbps when I need it (editing photos and video). Sounds like a safer bet.
Thanks for all the help guys.
I believe I will leave it plugged to a normal usb-c port, and just use it at 40gbps when I need it (editing photos and video). Sounds like a safer bet.
Thanks for all the help guys.
Guys, thanks for all your help. I've been using it for the last 10 days without issues. The trick is to place the enclosure on top of the stand (under the screen). The iMac's aluminium stand acts as a heat dissipator. It does not heat up, but controls the heat.
Haven't disconnected since.
I can probably tie it to the back of the stand, but for now it's just lying on the base of the stand, and it's fine.
Haven't disconnected since.
I can probably tie it to the back of the stand, but for now it's just lying on the base of the stand, and it's fine.
Only now found this post, would have chimed in earlier... I had to heat sink my NVME enclosure to the body of my Mini (using thermally conductive tape) to keep it running reliably. I was running it permanently with app reading/writing low volume of data all the time and it was getting really hot.
And that was Al enclosure with thermal pad inside, which heat sinked the NVME SSD to the enclosure. So yes, you may need to heat sink everything or you run into troubles.
And that was Al enclosure with thermal pad inside, which heat sinked the NVME SSD to the enclosure. So yes, you may need to heat sink everything or you run into troubles.
Thanks Zalle for sharing the final solution. I would have thought after you made the initial round of tweaks to heat dissipation that your remaining issues weren't heat-related but clearly they were. Also surprised you were still getting heat-related disconnects when you were away from your computer (presumably not running anything) but I guess the background activities of current versions of macOS were enough to drive the drive to overheat when not fully heat-sinked.
I like your approach, but I don't know how to do it... Is there any guide for that?
My system report says it's a 246X controller by ASMedia, fw version 54.17.
Searching on the www, I found this fw update. Is this it? If so, how do I go on about installing it? Can I do it on Mac? Or do I need Windows?
Asmedia ASM2464 NVME/USB 4.x Controller Firmware Version 240913_85_01_09
Windows
Thanks
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There's a link to the Mac version of mptool here:I like your approach, but I don't know how to do it... Is there any guide for that?
My system report says it's a 246X controller by ASMedia, fw version 54.17.
Searching on the www, I found this fw update. Is this it? If so, how do I go on about installing it? Can I do it on Mac? Or do I need Windows?
Asmedia ASM2464 NVME/USB 4.x Controller Firmware Version 240913_85_01_09
Windowswww.station-drivers.com
Thanks
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@zalle
Different topic I was dealing with (OWC Express 1M2 not recognized as TB / USB4 device on CalDigit TS4, therefore only slow transfer speeds), but looks like we (may) talk about the same controller from ASMedia (ASM2464PD).
Therefore, feel free to have a look into my little “manual” I create at this moment (just a first draft, still in process) to explain how to do the firmware update AND certain configurations (as necessary to solve my problem) on the ASMedia controller.
The manual includes the link to the most actual firmware for the controller. The downloadable firmware package also includes the application to do the firmware update and configurations on the controller.
The only problem(s): The application is Windows only and does not work (at least I didn’t get it to work) in a Windows virtual machine on my MacBook Pro (as the drive was only recognized as a virtual drive, not physical drive, therefore didn’t show up in the application). Also, the application has some "quirks" and the provided information may leave some question marks, therefore I am doing my own little manual, it may save some time of trial and error and guessing.
Without understanding your case now in detail, you may want not just to update your firmware, but also check / play around with the “Idle Timer” setting and the “U4 Mode” setting (where the “U4 Mode” setting resolved my problem!).
Good luck, have fun and maybe let me / us know if it helped!
Herbert
I like your approach, but I don't know how to do it... Is there any guide for that?
My system report says it's a 246X controller by ASMedia, fw version 54.17.
Searching on the www, I found this fw update. Is this it? If so, how do I go on about installing it? Can I do it on Mac? Or do I need Windows?
Asmedia ASM2464 NVME/USB 4.x Controller Firmware Version 240913_85_01_09
Windows
Thanks
Different topic I was dealing with (OWC Express 1M2 not recognized as TB / USB4 device on CalDigit TS4, therefore only slow transfer speeds), but looks like we (may) talk about the same controller from ASMedia (ASM2464PD).
Therefore, feel free to have a look into my little “manual” I create at this moment (just a first draft, still in process) to explain how to do the firmware update AND certain configurations (as necessary to solve my problem) on the ASMedia controller.
The manual includes the link to the most actual firmware for the controller. The downloadable firmware package also includes the application to do the firmware update and configurations on the controller.
The only problem(s): The application is Windows only and does not work (at least I didn’t get it to work) in a Windows virtual machine on my MacBook Pro (as the drive was only recognized as a virtual drive, not physical drive, therefore didn’t show up in the application). Also, the application has some "quirks" and the provided information may leave some question marks, therefore I am doing my own little manual, it may save some time of trial and error and guessing.
Without understanding your case now in detail, you may want not just to update your firmware, but also check / play around with the “Idle Timer” setting and the “U4 Mode” setting (where the “U4 Mode” setting resolved my problem!).
Good luck, have fun and maybe let me / us know if it helped!
Herbert
It does not recognise the driveThere's a link to the Mac version of mptool here:
Steps to Upgrade Firmware for iMac/Mac Mini Dock
If you own our Mac Dock, model DS802 and Mac Mini Dock, model BD201A. And are experiencing issues with the SSD randomly disconnecting, don't worry, please follow the steps below to upgrade the firmware for your iMac Dock or Mac Mini Dock. For Mac: Please use this link to download the firmware...
Thanks for sharing Herbert. I now see some discussion of this "U4 Mode" in other forums. Unfortunate that ASMedia's Auto mode (the default) can't handle situations like yours (and from other discussions full speed connection to TB3 computers like Intel-based Macs). The "1. PD + PCIe + Lgcy" mode you reference seems to retain enough support or autonegotation to retain PCIe tunneling which is enough to get at least 3xUSB3 speeds. It's unclear the exact different between "Auto" and "PD + PCIe + Lgcy" (PD + PCIe + Lgcy is explained in a manual elsewhere as PD + PCIe tunneling + legacy USB is only somewhat helpful) but someone in another forum suggested it downgrades the PCIe tunneling from USB4's ~32Gbps to TB3's effectively ~22Gbps. Which may also solve using the OWC Express 1M2 on an Intel-based Mac at full TB3 speeds rather than USB3 speeds.
For Zalle's issue, I'd say if keeping it fully heat sinked to the aluminum iMac keeps it from disconnecting, I would stick with that as otherwise it implies an overheating issue. Everything else aside, I would try to keep my SSD < 70 deg C at all times.
However, if the drive is still disconnecting when the Mac goes to sleep or otherwise, playing with the Idle Timer parameter you mentioned is worth exploring (for those who like playing with firmware and have a Windows machine available).
Mine is working well if I leave it on top of the iMac's base.
Usually around 40-55° Celsius. I've seen 65 max. Has not disconnected yet.
Yes.
Not frequently, just occasionally. Maybe once an hour when the Mac briefly wakes for Time Machine.
Do you think the unsafe shutdowns are a cause for concern?
Mine power cycles a couple of times an hour, which I find excessive, not sure why though.
@bzgnyc2
Finally, I am glad that I could resolve my topic, more or less on my own by searching in the web and then some trial and error. While both technical support areas (OWC and CalDigit) have been very friendly and responsive I felt more interest in the topic at CalDigit, where some feedback helped me to look into the "right direction", than at OWC. That was in a certain way a little disappointing, especially as I really like OWC products. But maybe I just expect too much in here and most likely the complexity of these topics make it impossible to support and resolve every problem occurring in the combination of products from different companies.
Herbert
To be very honest, your interesting and informative response is a little above my knowledge and experience level concerning all these topics. At the end of the day I am just an enthusiastic user, definitely not an IT person or anything close to a specialist.
Finally, I am glad that I could resolve my topic, more or less on my own by searching in the web and then some trial and error. While both technical support areas (OWC and CalDigit) have been very friendly and responsive I felt more interest in the topic at CalDigit, where some feedback helped me to look into the "right direction", than at OWC. That was in a certain way a little disappointing, especially as I really like OWC products. But maybe I just expect too much in here and most likely the complexity of these topics make it impossible to support and resolve every problem occurring in the combination of products from different companies.
Herbert