NVME vs SSD sata Mac Pro 5,1

[Fnstrom]

Hello all,

I have a small annoying little experience that I wonder if its common or normal.
I have installed an name drive "samsung 970 eco" in my Mac Pro 2010, it boots up and all seems to be working, until....... I discovered that it takes very long time for it to boot.
I measured the time between the chime and apple logo to be around 25 seconds. And I had disconnected everything, all USB ports, no usb three card.

I started to search for possible causes, but nothing helped, pram, smc and all I could think of.

Today I installed in the same machine an ssd via data 2 port, and now it takes around 6 seconds between the chime and apple logo, it boots much quicker.

Is this something to expect, or is something bad with my drive or mvmd adapter card?

Has anyone seen/experienced this before?

/Fredrik

 

[AidenShaw]

"samsung 970 eco"

Did you mean "970 Evo" or "970 Pro"?

How is it connected?

 

[bsbeamer]

NVMe is known to be a "slower" boot vs. SATA boot. Change to a SATA SSD if it's that big of a deal. It's been reported on this forum many times.

 

[crjackson2134]

Hello all,

I have a small annoying little experience that I wonder if its common or normal.
I have installed an name drive "samsung 970 eco" in my Mac Pro 2010, it boots up and all seems to be working, until....... I discovered that it takes very long time for it to boot.
I measured the time between the chime and apple logo to be around 25 seconds. And I had disconnected everything, all USB ports, no usb three card.

I started to search for possible causes, but nothing helped, pram, smc and all I could think of.

Today I installed in the same machine an ssd via data 2 port, and now it takes around 6 seconds between the chime and apple logo, it boots much quicker.

Is this something to expect, or is something bad with my drive or mvmd adapter card?

Has anyone seen/experienced this before?

/Fredrik

That’s actually pretty fast both for the NVMe and the SATA SSD.

A Few more seconds to boot, but much faster operations depending on your activities. If booting is your primary activity, then use the MVMe as a fast scratch disk, and boot from the conventional SSD.

 

[Fnstrom]

Hello, ah ok, i was mostly curious to know if my system had some kind of problem.

@AidenShaw, i use some kind of adapter on one of the Pcie slots, its a no name. Samsung 970 evo.

I really appreciate all your answers, if its normal, i can sleep easier :-D

 

[bsbeamer]

If you’re using a no name adapter, make SURE you have a heatsink before you fry the blade.

 

[zedex]

I know this comment is a little redundant in light of the remark by @crjackson2134 BUT your NVMe boot speed is ULTRAFAST (at 25 seconds) compared with many of us. Mine is getting seriously close to the 2 minute mark from the time I hit the power button to 'desktop ready'.

 

[bsbeamer]

@zedex I have noticed faster start times with Mojave (10.14.3 18D109) vs previous OS versions. Noticeably faster with recommended Sapphire Pulse RX580 8GB vs previous GTX 1080 FE with NVIDIA Web Drivers (in HS 10.13.6). Using NVMe for boot (970 EVO via PX1) and was previously using SATA SSD via PCIe. No spinning drives in system at all. All SATA sleds/bays are full with SATA SSDs right now (4 sled, 2 PCIe, 1 optical bay).

For some reason, it seems having a SATA SSD in the second optical bay actually seems to speed up the boot process. Someone else may be better able to comment on that, but just an observation.

 

[zedex]

In fairness, I mess around with the config of my cMP a lot (obsessively) and I'm always looking for high lane usage PCIe cards. There's 36 lanes there and I'm trying to find a super combination of multi-lane PCIe cards that optimally uses them all.
It's kinda good to know the speed might improve if I change/upgrade my macOS version, but for whatever reason, faster boot times aren't a big deal for me

I get fired up by the ability to stuff the hardware equivalent of 5 "lesser" (PC?) workstations in to one perfectly engineered extruded aluminium box

 

[Fnstrom]

But just so you all know, when i wrote 25 seconds, i meant the time between the chime, and when the apple logo first appears. So its not 25 seconds total, but when i now use the ssd via sata port, i get 6 seconds between chime and apple logo.

About the heatspreader, is there any adapter you recomend for the nvme drive? because today, i have no heatsink.

/Fredrik

 

[zedex]

The Angelbird PX1 is pretty legendary. Other members frequently recommend a Kyro AQUA adapter. They do make a big difference because it not just frying the blade to worry about, it's thermal throttling as well. Speeds will drop by as much as 75% if it gets too hot. That can happen within 1 minute of use.

 

[flowrider]

^^^^The Angelbird is no longer available. There is a substitute made by the same folks, but UK only AFAIK:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/blade-ssds-nvme-ahci.2146725/page-28#post-27172477

Lou

 

[zedex]

@Fnstrom -- Where are you located? I'm happy to put my ANGELBIRD PX1 on ebay and ship it to you provided it's not prohibitively expensive. I received a Highpoint SSD7101A yesterday so technically it's surplus to my needs.... just an opytion it you want it
[doublepost=1553188419][/doublepost]

^^^^The Angelbird is no longer available. There is a substitute made by the same folks, but UK only AFAIK:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/blade-ssds-nvme-ahci.2146725/page-28#post-27172477

Lou

@flowrider -- I know it's out of production (EOL) and widely believed to be 'unavailable' but it can still be purchased from RAMCITY - see the following link: https://www.ramcity.com.au/accessories/adapters/m.2-pcie-pcie/WIPX1-FWKF

I've copied in my product review below which highlights one of the reasons it's better than ALL the alternatives - sad it won't be available for much long

----
Perfect for the SM951
In addition to great design and exceptional build quality this adapter has a special feature that few people are aware of - it contains a chip that allows Mac Pro (5,1) users to insert this adapter in to SLOT 2 and get full data throughput (PCIe x4). It's a small bonus, but for anyone that has been frustrated with using one of the popular alternative adapters that refuse to connect at a link width better than "PCIe x2" in SLOT 2, this is a wonderful additional benefit beyond the well documented thermal advantages and great looking design of the PX1.
----

Special credit should go to @tsialex for first making me aware of the PX1's onboard switch that eliminates the "why is my SM951 on my Lycom DT-120 only connecting at x2" problem that perplexed many owners over the years.

 

[bsbeamer]

If you're outside of the US, MegaMac appears to have PX1 in stock and shipping basically all over Europe. It's completely sold out in US, unless you can find an eBay or Amazon style private seller. UK also has the alternate Wolftech Pulsecard version without LEDs available for the same price at MegaMac. (Never purchased from them, no clue how reputable they are.)

One reason so many recommend Aquacomputer kryoM.2 evo is because it's the only available in US right now AND it comes with thermal pads and heatsink for decent price. The cheaper options do not include heatsink or thermal pads.

 

[flowrider]

@flowrider -- I know it's out of production (EOL) and widely believed to be 'unavailable' but it can still be purchased from RAMCITY - see the following link: https://www.ramcity.com.au/accessories/adapters/m.2-pcie-pcie/WIPX1-FWKF

That's a usurious price. They're robbers That's more than twice the retail price

Lou

 

[bsbeamer]

That's a usurious price. They're robbers View attachment 827507 That's more than twice the retail price View attachment 827508

Lou

Think that quote/link was all @zedex, but 100% agree that's an insane price.

 

[MarkC426]

If you're outside of the US, MegaMac appears to have PX1 in stock and shipping basically all over Europe. It's completely sold out in US, unless you can find an eBay or Amazon style private seller. UK also has the alternate Wolftech Pulsecard version without LEDs available for the same price at MegaMac. (Never purchased from them, no clue how reputable they are.)

One reason so many recommend Aquacomputer kryoM.2 evo is because it's the only available in US right now AND it comes with thermal pads and heatsink for decent price. The cheaper options do not include heatsink or thermal pads.

FYI megamac in the UK do NOT have Angelbird in stock.
I tried to order one, and they are obtained per order, so basically unavailable.
They offered me the Wolftech as an alternative.

 

[Fnstrom]

Thanks all for your help, this adapter actually exists here, so i will buy it tomorrow.

 

[MarkC426]

If your referring to the Angelbird, check it is actually in stock in their warehouse.
I found it in 2 places in the UK to order, but actually they only order from Angelbird upon recieving your order (and as they have been discontinued, there are no new ones).

 

[Fnstrom]

keeping my fingers crossed, will let you know if it really works, they say they have one left.

 

[tsialex]

I've copied in my product review below which highlights one of the reasons it's better than ALL the alternatives - sad it won't be available for much long

----
Perfect for the SM951
In addition to great design and exceptional build quality this adapter has a special feature that few people are aware of - it contains a chip that allows Mac Pro (5,1) users to insert this adapter in to SLOT 2 and get full data throughput (PCIe x4). It's a small bonus, but for anyone that has been frustrated with using one of the popular alternative adapters that refuse to connect at a link width better than "PCIe x2" in SLOT 2, this is a wonderful additional benefit beyond the well documented thermal advantages and great looking design of the PX1.
----

Special credit should go to @tsialex for first making me aware of the PX1's onboard switch that eliminates the "why is my SM951 on my Lycom DT-120 only connecting at x2" problem that perplexed many owners over the years.

You are mixing two things. Let's me explain.

1) About the chip:

Angelbirds Wings PX1 has an integrated circuit that other cards don't have. Initially I thought that this chip was a SPI flash memory, it's a SOJ-8 like almost all SPI flash memories, to do the PCIe ID and identify/differentiate multiple cards. This was my first idea.

Recently I tried to read the contents of that chip and didn't succeed, this intrigued me and I started to analyse the circuit from the chip to the PCIe slot and saw that this SOJ-8 don't connect to PCIe data lines, just to the power ones. So, can't be a PCIe ID.

Days later, I bought another PX1 and with this one the markings on the SOJ was readable with an USB microscope. It's an oscillator and it's used to control the card illumination. So my first hypothesis was totally wrong, sorry for that, and PX1 is a dumb card too.

2) About the 5GT/s:

This is Apple doing, not PX1. With BootROM 138.0.0.0.0, Apple started to support PCIe 2.0 with all cards, not just the ones that had a Mac EFI. This made all PCIe cards operate as PCIe 2.0 cards with Mac Pro.

So, using M.2 adapters with slot 3 and 4, the ones connected by a PCIe 2.0 switch on the Mac Pro backplane, to get PCIe 2.0 was a necessity before 138.0.0.0.0, but after the changes Apple made, all slots work as PCIe 2.0 for all cards. So, slot 2 now can be used with M.2 adapters and has 5GT/s.
[doublepost=1553199791][/doublepost]I've edited my previous posts about the option ROM to correct my wrong idea, again sorry for that.

 

[zedex]

I appreciate the additional clarification there @tsialex - thorough as always.

Love that expression 'usurious' - and I do agree with you @bsbeamer - I only sought to point out it continues to exist through retail channels. Not sure how pricing appears to US visitors but I would remind you to divide by 1.4 to get AUD. It's still about $25 more than it should be however.....

 

[Fnstrom]

Hello all, now I have installed the Angelbirds adadpater, thanks for the tip zedex.
But, now I wonder.... is there a way for me to view the temp of my samsung 970 evo drive?
Just to see if the heatsink is helping?

/Fredrik

 

[bsbeamer]

DriveDx: https://binaryfruit.com/drivedx

Displays current temperature, power cycle temperature and lifetime temperature. Also tells you recommended and temp limits. In addition to a ton of other reporting.

 

[Fnstrom]

Ah super, thank you bsbeamer

/Fredrik