Officially giving up on the Mac Mini 2018 + 4K monitor dream

[thirdsun]

They really don't. "Normal" sized elements would be 4k @ 21" (hence the 21" 4K iMac and 21" 4k Ultrafine). It's better than 4k@27" but it's not usable IMO at plain 2x.

Absolutely. 4K at 22" is even better, but 1080p at 24" has been so common for a long time that I think it's fine to recommend 4k at 24". Still, it's not even close to 5K at 27". A lot of compromises indeed.

I don't really see why using DisplayPort would be considered a problem. I have this exact display and it works well (currently paired with a 2018 MBP15, will be paired with the 2018 MM once its here).

Display Port is fine. It's actually preferred these days. I simply mentioned the limitation of the HDMI input in case the user wants to connect a console. However it seems the monitor my post was referring to has been updated to HDMI 2.0 at some point according to @kaibob - good to know.

 

[jpine]

I know you want to save money, but 16 GB of memory is kind of becoming the norm for a smooth working computer. Yes, it will turn on with 8 GB, but consider 16 GB to start off with.

 

[dmsea1]

Ok, doing 2 monitors - 3440x1440 and 3840x1440 - one is a 34" Wide Screen and the other is a 60" 4k TV - I will have PSVUE TV playing on one, and Youtube streaming 4k on the other with GarageBand in the background and iMovie playing. No stuttering, at around 11-14GB of Ram getting used and very little pressure at all on CPU - i7. Not sure what else you could need unless editing massive 4k for Disney or something, but this thing handles it. Not scaling the monitors, keeping at default and Mojave looks and works beautifully. Am I missing something?

 

[zaphoyd]

I'm using a pair of P2415Q 24 inch 4k displays scaled to 5K "looks like 2560x1440" on an i7/16GB mini and UI performance is excellent. This seems to me the easy sweet spot for mini displays. Its not quite 5K@2x scaling quality, but it is the same effective screen real estate, 186dpi is close enough to 220 that it still looks great, and it costs 1/5 of a 5K display. My mini is quite happy driving 2 of them (planning to test with a third display as soon as I can get the right cables).

The P2415Q (all manufactured after early 2016) support HDMI 2.0. I'm using one of these displays at 60Hz using HDMI on my mini right now and have used this display at 60Hz with HDMI on my PS4 Pro as well. The method of enabling HDMI 2.0 is not well documented and it is off by default but is easy to enable.

 

[philipma1957]

Any 2560x1440 display will be fine. There’s no scaling at all since the resolution is too low. Of course that also means the image won’t be anywhere near as crisp as a 4k, let alone a 5k display.

Yeah but a lot depends on your eye qualty.

I have 2x cataract surgery. With two implanted lens. One eye sees better then 20 20 the other sees 20 100.

So what happens is a 27 inch 4K or 5k is pretty much a worthless option. For an up close monitor.

Now a 65 inch 4K set to 1080 works cause I don’t sit near it. I think the 32 inch will work for me. I have a 24 inch 1080 for close up it is decent.

I have a 46 inch 1080 for far which works.

 

[djc6]

I'm using a pair of P2415Q 24 inch 4k displays scaled to 5K "looks like 2560x1440" on an i7/16GB mini and UI performance is excellent.

Thank you for posting this! I feel like all these posts about UI lag appeared right after I ordered my i7/16GB/1TB mac mini! It hasn't arrived yet.

I have a pair of existing LG 27UD58P-B 27” 4K displays I was going to use at scaled resolutions, so I was a little concerned. I naively assumed integrated graphics were OK for my needs - only general use, no gaming or creative/artistic work.

 

[thirdsun]

Yeah but a lot depends on your eye qualty.

I have 2x cataract surgery. With two implanted lens. One eye sees better then 20 20 the other sees 20 100.

So what happens is a 27 inch 4K or 5k is pretty much a worthless option. For an up close monitor.

Now a 65 inch 4K set to 1080 works cause I don’t sit near it. I think the 32 inch will work for me. I have a 24 inch 1080 for close up it is decent.

I have a 46 inch 1080 for far which works.

Good for you. Personally, I think vision and sight benefit a lot from high pixel density and appropriate scaling, particularly after long days in front of the display. Comparing my native WQHD iMac and a 5k iMac, the latter is much easier on the eyes to me. Of course, it also depends on the use case - I work in software development, seeing editors, documentation and text all day - high PPI displays are a godsent.

 

[InquiringMac]

That's it! I think I will give up the whole Mac Mini dream altogether. The fact that a $1k computer causes you either have a laggy UI because of a high-res monitor (4K + 1440p scaling) or restricts you to a lower-res monitor (1440p) isn't a good thing. It's bad enough that you cannot do any gaming (an acceptable trade-off for being able to use OS X instead of Windows) but I don't need a computer that presents bottlenecks even at the basic stuff.

I feel your frustration, and am in the same boat...
Considering:
Mac Pro 2013 + X > Mac Mini 2018 -> Is there a feasible solution here, I wonder?
or
MM 2018 + eGPU -> What would be your recommendations here, dear experts?
or
Mac Pro 2019 (base, most probably) -> Can we reasonably estimate the cost of entry here?

 

[tthkbw]

Definitely better better as they have a higher pixel density than 4K at 27" and the effective resolution of 1920x1080 is a natural fit for 24" displays - UI elements will have the right size. It's a good option. However even 4k at 24" is very rare. Dell's P2415Q is one display that comes to mind - it's very affordable, but its HDMI port is outdated. Doesn't support HDMI 2.0 (which is required for 4k at 60 Hz) as far as I know - so expect to be limited to the display's Display Port input (which supports 4k at 60 Hz).

To me personally, 1920x1080 isn't enough screen real estate though - even if it's sharp. I want 5k aka 2560x1440 at 2x scaling and I guess I'm willing to wait for the next iMac.

I just received my Mac mini (i7, 16GB, 512GB) yesterday along with a Dell P2415Q monitor which I connected via a 4K capable HDMI cable. Everything came up and ran nicely, but I noticed a jumpiness to both scrolling and large fast mouse movements (across the screen). If you look at About this Mac/System Report/Graphics/Displays it will tell you in the UI Looks Like: item what resolution and refresh rate you are running. I was running 30Hz.

So, take a look at this page: https://www.dell.com/support/articl...ith-hdmi-20-that-support-4k-x-2k-60hz?lang=en

this explains how to enable HDMI 2.0 on the Dell P2415Q monitor. Follow the procedure, but it is a bit tricky. When you get the screen that shows enable/disable, you can't select using the cursor keys. I think it just does a toggle each time you do the procedure and shows the result. Anyway, I did this and now I am running at 60Hz for all resolutions available.

The jumpiness in the scrolling and the mouse are now gone and I am a happy camper.

I am still trying to decide on whether I like the superior quality of the default 1080P selection, or the large screen real estate of the 2560x1440 option. Either way, the clarity of this monitor is much better that my old 17" iMac with 2560x1440 resolution. I don't notice any performance degradation when using the 2560x1440 selection, but it feels less sharp than the 1080P.

The monitor cost me $357 from Amazon, new. The mini was $1699 and I had to purchase a Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 adapter for my external drive.

At this point, I'm pretty happy. Performance is snappy and I love the display. My only concern is that I had a runaway process eating the CPU and the fan came on and is pretty loud. In normal operation is has been silent, but we'll see.

 

[blairh]

I sold my Mini some months back and got a base model 5k 27" iMac. I highly recommend that.

 

[ElectronGuru]

Mac Pro 2019 (base, most probably) -> Can we reasonably estimate the cost of entry here?

As I recall the big cost factor on the current MP is the dual mandatory video cards. If they allow one, it could be cheaper. OTOH, if they make a render farm in a box, no.

I did this and now I am running at 60Hz for all resolutions available.

The jumpiness in the scrolling and the mouse are now gone and I am a happy camper.

Thanks for the report. Wonder if other makes are defaulting to 30 as well?

Also demonstrates an important point. iMac Apple controls everything. Mini has to contend with hundreds of other companies that are not used to supporting Mac users.

 

[campyguy]

Dell's P2415Q is one display that comes to mind - it's very affordable, but its HDMI port is outdated. Doesn't support HDMI 2.0 (which is required for 4k at 60 Hz) as far as I know - so expect to be limited to the display's Display Port input (which supports 4k at 60 Hz).

Just chiming in with input, starting with the A03 builds of both the P2415Q and P2715Q in February 2016, these two displays were built with HDMI 2.0, it's just not enabled by default. Dell's US link.

 

[Stephen.R]

starting with the A03 builds

Out of interest, how do you find the build/firmware version on the P2415Q. I don't need to use HDMI, but I'm curious if the stock here is new enough to have it.

 

[Gherkin]

can anyone answer this?

I have a 2018 Mac Mini with i7 arriving on Monday.

I have the LG 24” 4K monitor (LG 24UD58-B UHD). This monitor has HDMI and Display port.

If I buy a HDMI to USB-C cable, will that work with 4K 60hz?

This is the cable I bought:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B075V5JK36/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

All should be good?

 

[Stephen.R]

All should be good?

Both the display and cable say they support 4K@60Hz, so yes you should be fine.

 

[dmsea1]

can anyone answer this?

I have a 2018 Mac Mini with i7 arriving on Monday.

I have the LG 24” 4K monitor (LG 24UD58-B UHD). This monitor has HDMI and Display port.

If I buy a HDMI to USB-C cable, will that work with 4K 60hz?

This is the cable I bought:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B075V5JK36/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

All should be good?

I have the same hookup - I picked up 4k HDMI to USB-C cable from Amazon, plugged in 3440 34" Widescreen and I get the following display reading:

Resolution: 3440 x 1440 (UWQHD - Ultra-Wide Quad HD)

UI Looks like: 3440 x 1440 @ 60 Hz

 

[campyguy]

Out of interest, how do you find the build/firmware version on the P2415Q. I don't need to use HDMI, but I'm curious if the stock here is new enough to have it.

The build number is on the Service Tag. The Service Tag on all EMEA displays is on the rear part of the panel; Dell didn't put the Service Tag on US versions of the P2415Q until build version A03 - you should be covered either way. If you don't see a Service Tag on the display, send it back. FWIW, I buy my Dell displays only from Dell - it's much simpler for me and the company I own/run. Dell put Service Tags on their P2715Q displays from Day 1 (Build A00).

If you buy from Dell, you'll get the latest build.

My GF splits time in the US and parts of the EMEA, and we're both geeks - we talk about this kind of stuff...

 

[MRrainer]

That's it! I think I will give up the whole Mac Mini dream altogether. The fact that a $1k computer causes you either have a laggy UI because of a high-res monitor (4K + 1440p scaling) or restricts you to a lower-res monitor (1440p) isn't a good thing. It's bad enough that you cannot do any gaming (an acceptable trade-off for being able to use OS X instead of Windows) but I don't need a computer that presents bottlenecks even at the basic stuff.

It's decided... I'm sticking with my Mid-2010 iMac and continue to wait for the inevitable space grey iMac with 5K screen, proper GPU and a SSD drive as standard. Yup, those iMacs are expensive. However... If you think of the cost of a i5 Mac Mini + 16 gigs of RAM (to help the GPU) + a good 27" mixed-use display... Well you are not far off from what the base iMac 27" 5K (2019) will cost. Oh yeah, you get an expensive keyboard with the iMac plus a mouse you can sell to those who don't like Logitech stuff.

The Mini isn't about price.
It's about flexibility (choosing your own displays, how you place it, how often you replace it).
The Mini is also far easier to open and repair, which should give it an edge over the iMac in such a case.

 

[wdwpsu]

If you buy from Dell, you'll get the latest build.

I wonder about Newegg. The P2415Q was $299 last night and I almost pulled the trigger (price jumped back up today), but I was afraid of getting a HDMI 1.3 version that I'd then be stuck with a restocking fee if I wanted to return it.

 

[Chiromac81]

I'm in the same camp. See my posts over in this thread: https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...-mini-with-multiple-4k-60hz-monitors.2155184/

On macOS you want 2x scaling, which will look sharp and crisp, won't tax the GPU but sacrifices screen real estate due to that god awful 4K at 27" combination that is ubiquitous.

Considering waiting for a refreshed iMac right now, or going with classic WQHD temporarily until we see affordable 5K options. However that may be risky as it seems many customers don't see the benefit of 5k aka WQHD at 220 PPI.

Would getting a 4K screen that is 32 inches avoid this problem? Or still have a lag? I was thinking of getting a Mac mini with a 32 inch 4K LG screen...is it worth it or is the GPU a problem for this combo?

 

[kaibob]

I wonder about Newegg. The P2415Q was $299 last night and I almost pulled the trigger (price jumped back up today), but I was afraid of getting a HDMI 1.3 version that I'd then be stuck with a restocking fee if I wanted to return it.

I've also decided to buy the Dell P2415Q monitor. The change to HDMI 2 was made by Dell in 2016 and there seems little chance that Newegg would be selling monitors with a production date earlier than that. I regret not buying the monitor from Newegg when it was available for $300; perhaps there will be an equal or better deal on Black Friday.

 

[Fishrrman]

Gherkin wrote in #39 above:
"This is the cable I bought:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B075V5JK36/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
All should be good?"

As others have said, that should work.

Could you please post here again AFTER you've tried it, to let us know if the results are good with that particular cable?

 

[tthkbw]

I've also decided to buy the Dell P2415Q monitor. The change to HDMI 2 was made by Dell in 2016 and there seems little chance that Newegg would be selling monitors with a production date earlier than that. I regret not buying the monitor from Newegg when it was available for $300; perhaps there will be an equal or better deal on Black Friday.

In a previous post, I told of my experience with the P2415Q monitor. Once I got it to run at 60Hz over HDMI, everything is very good. I see no lag in the UI at any chose resolution on my Mac mini (i7, 16GB, 512GB).

My only complaint is how long it takes the monitor to come alive from sleep. When the monitor has slept (system to, but I don't think this is the mini), it takes it a good 5-7 seconds to come alive. Then, when it does, Dell happily provides an overly, right on top of the password box telling me I am using HDMI.

I actually verified that this is the monitor by hitting the monitor power button to turn it off while the mini is running and not sleeping. It takes the monitor 6.5 seconds on average to provide video after I turn it on.

 

[jdiamond]

I'm in the same camp. See my posts over in this thread: https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...-mini-with-multiple-4k-60hz-monitors.2155184/

On macOS you want 2x scaling, which will look sharp and crisp, won't tax the GPU but sacrifices screen real estate due to that god awful 4K at 27" combination that is ubiquitous.

Just to add to this point: If you don't do an integer multiple of the native resolution, than MacOS starts with a screen DOUBLE the size (always greater than the native resolution) and scales it down to native resolution to reduce blurriness - that's a 4x performance hit for a lower resolution - meaning it takes more work than viewing a 5K display. With the LG 5K, the key is to NOT shoot for 4K or 1920 but for a clean multiple of its resolution - namely, 2,560 x 1,440. If this isn't available via the default scaling options, you could try using something like QuickResX.

But the 2018 Mac Mini is designed to need an eGPU - its integrated GPU is even lower end than the lowest end 13" Macbook Pro. But I'd be amazed if it couldn't do 2,560 x 1,440 well.

 

[strawbale]

In a previous post, I told of my experience with the P2415Q monitor. Once I got it to run at 60Hz over HDMI, everything is very good. I see no lag in the UI at any chose resolution on my Mac mini (i7, 16GB, 512GB).

My only complaint is how long it takes the monitor to come alive from sleep. When the monitor has slept (system to, but I don't think this is the mini), it takes it a good 5-7 seconds to come alive. Then, when it does, Dell happily provides an overly, right on top of the password box telling me I am using HDMI.

I actually verified that this is the monitor by hitting the monitor power button to turn it off while the mini is running and not sleeping. It takes the monitor 6.5 seconds on average to provide video after I turn it on.

have you tried a USB-C to DP cable?