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Oh Dear, intel integrated graphics
- Thread starter Macmadant
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Eidorian said:Someone please read my posts. I cover all of this.
well same here. i've repeated myself like 50 times today.
people don't read through the threads though. just happens sometimes.
cube said:
This is quite a different point, but a good one. I was hoping, back when the mini was just a rumor, that the new low-cost modular Mac would be a small pizza-box with an AGP slot. Apple opted to go for a smaller and cooler form-factor, but I still think the more upgradable machine is a sweet-spot they've yet to hit.
TBi said:
yeah i mean, how can it not be better? yes, the graphics card is less than what people would prefer. fine. but what about the shiny new Core Duo CPU? no seems to care about that. this is a huge leap forward from the G4. c'mon people, how long have we had to put up with that slug?! now the next generation of cool chips are here and we're bitching about the graphics. the glass is half full. well, maybe a third? cheer up.
Yeah, I don't like spouting out numbers like "ZOMG it'll use 224 MB of system RAM!!111 teh Mac mini for teh F41L!11one ".tjwett said:well same here. i've repeated myself like 50 times today.
I'd rather link to official specifications pages and tech statements. I have 1.5 GB of RAM in my iMac G5 and I've never used all of it at once. I still keep it around though since it makes OS X perky. We've bought every Mac Mini at work with 1 GB of RAM. Just because the new one will only have 920 MB available doesn't mean we won't stop buying them.
I'm much more concerned about the CPU power. Duo Core Mac Mini for video encoding? Hell, even the $599 model makes a nice second Mac for me. But I want Dual Core.
Oh, please - Apple can barely meet demand for the "crappy" products they ship - ones with poor graphics, too little RAM, too high a price tag. If they'd actually produce a marketable product like you suggest, we'd never get them!IJ Reilly said:
I'm just happy that I am willing to use such useless junk, because at least this way I can get my hands on it.
I cant believe how much people are carrying on about this.
If you want to play 3d games, dont buy a mac mini, simple.
The Intel Mac Mini is a huge leap forward from the G4 based one.
The Core Duo processor is comparable to the low end AMD X2 cpu's, but with nowhere near the heat output.
I suggest you take a look at the RRP for a core duo processor, add up all the other parts, and see if you think its a good deal
If you want to play 3d games, dont buy a mac mini, simple.
The Intel Mac Mini is a huge leap forward from the G4 based one.
The Core Duo processor is comparable to the low end AMD X2 cpu's, but with nowhere near the heat output.
I suggest you take a look at the RRP for a core duo processor, add up all the other parts, and see if you think its a good deal
It seems a lot of people on here like to ignore facts. I think its an Apple fan thing though since for years they've had to try to defend the G4 chip when comparing it to the later Intel and AMD solutions.
I've posted decent, organised facts. In fact I produced a thread with as much technical information as I could find but it was ignored by the majority of users. Maybe mac users are scared of facts. Who knows.
I've posted decent, organised facts. In fact I produced a thread with as much technical information as I could find but it was ignored by the majority of users. Maybe mac users are scared of facts. Who knows.
cube said:
This post sums up my thinking more than any other. I'd be very surprised if the graphical performance of the new Minis isn't very much below-par. Intel integrated graphics have a shady history, and that hasn't changed just because our beloved company has decided to shave some costs in this area.
To me, it's most troublesome that the Mac Mini has likewise crept up in price quite considerably since its introduction, and as others have pointed out, this puts it out of the bracket of switcher machine. I'd rather see them forgo bluetooth and the novelty remote for a better graphical offering.
IJ Reilly said:
i think there are a bunch of things that factor into why Apple don't have a super upgradable product line. one being that in order to upgrade well, there has to be something to upgrade with. and the fact is that there just aren't that many 3rd party upgrades when compared to the PC. go to Compusa and check out the Mac section, it's that little 2 shelf area in the back corner. not a whole lot to choose from. and when a major player like ATI make something we can use it is called the "Mac Edition" and it uses last years technology and costs twice as much. it would be a waste of time for the machines to have a ton of PCI slots because there is nothing to put in them, for the average home user at least.
another issue is probably aesthetics. this is Apple's big thing, in case anyone hasn't noticed.
they make products that look good. there is a huge focus on this and it is obviously paying off for them. that's why we've had one mouse button for 20 years. it looks pretty. it's not like they are doing it for spite or to be stubborn. it helps them make money. the buyer needs to understand that Apple is a giant mega corporation just like any other. just like MS, just like Nike, just like Enron. they are trying to make money, lots of it. the only thing that sets them apart is they happen to make really cool products.What's the big deal? A 9200 is barely better than a GMA950, especially the crippled one that apple used, hell at least it has core image now, this is really an upgrade this GMA950 will work with typical OSX apps a lot better due to core image. The 5x faster CPU will probably make up for any minor difference between the GPU's. Come on apple wouldn't have done this if it was sigificantly slower for games. Besides this is not a gaming machine no low end machine is. If you are going to be gaming, neither the mac mini g4 or the core duo one will be satisfactory and you'd be silly to pick anything but an imac, which has a x1600 and that is a killer GPU. The main problem I have with it is I think it's a shame that the core duo has raised the price of the unit so much. Too bad there was really no other laptop CPU with SSE3 to use. Celeron M mac mini could have made it really cheap. Come on it's a budget mac, low price is the best thing for it and best thing for apple.
Although the optical out and gigabit ethernet are really handy additions to it, makes it useful as a cheap server or home theatre computer.
Although the optical out and gigabit ethernet are really handy additions to it, makes it useful as a cheap server or home theatre computer.
cube said:
Macs are not - and will never be - priced like PCs. this is not new and anyone who's been using a Mac for more than a month knows this. a few years ago the G4 Power Mac ranged up to $3500. that was an even cheaper CPU. people bought millions of them. this is ancient history. if people are coming to the Mac from the PC world expecting to find similar prices just because there is an Intel inside they are in for some really bad news. be careful what you wish for. think about it. do you really want Apple to start making things like PCs? think about the build quality. the ugliness. the United Nations of components inside. the ribbon cables, twisty ties, spray painted tin and screws that make up a PC. it's all part of the deal. and just to state the obvious, the Intel Core chips are more expensive than the PPCs were anyway.
Why does Integrated Graphics come as a surprise to anyone in the Macintosh community is to my surprise. We knew well some of us where this was all heading when Apple switched to x86/Intel. Apple gets a deal for using Intel CPU and its IG and in the end Apple profit marine is higher and Intel gets more support for its IG.
I was going to buy one of these Intel Mac Mini's and after seeing IG, I said forget it and wait. My PPC G5 is more than up to the job.
I feel that Apple and Jobs have have been on the rise for a few years now, and its going to head the other way if they do not listen to they customers as far as components go. Gigabit Ethernet, finally after Mac customers have been asking for this for over a year or so.
What goes up must come down, look at Google for example.
I was going to buy one of these Intel Mac Mini's and after seeing IG, I said forget it and wait. My PPC G5 is more than up to the job.
I feel that Apple and Jobs have have been on the rise for a few years now, and its going to head the other way if they do not listen to they customers as far as components go. Gigabit Ethernet, finally after Mac customers have been asking for this for over a year or so.
What goes up must come down, look at Google for example.
tjwett said:
That is due to R&D costs by Intel, once that cost is recouped the price will head south. This is just one of those things that Apple and others want to be on the edge of technology and the customer has to pay for it, nothing new.
If you wait close to the end of this year or early 2007 the price should drop a fair bit. As for me I can wait.
tjwett said:
Yes, this is what my big gripe with the system is. Seems like Apple is always needlessly shorting the graphics in their consumer models. The first G5 iMac was a similar situation with a super low end graphics chip.
tjwett said:
We're here bitching about graphics because that's the title of the thread.
Seriously though, you're right about the CPU. Damn pleased with a Core Duo CPU in these. For some people having a dual core system is a huge boon and I'm happy for them. Should be a fun little system.
Furthermore, many posters here are correct that real benchmarks aren't available yet. It is possible that once the statistics are out that things might not be as bad as some of us (including myself) are making it out to be. I hope many of you will be back to discuss this when some of the reputable review sites give us some data.
In the meantime I'll still be happily running OS X as I'm sure many of us do.
The mac mini is priced well for what it is, I dare you to find a cheaper dual core machine. the 950GMA is no worse and perhaps better due to the core image than the 9200. Some benchmarks have appeared in this thread of the 950GMA, comparing it to a geforce 6200. Well, the 9200 is a lot slower than the 6200.
cube said:
This Intel Mini is overpriced however that is due to cost set by Intel for its R&D and the implementation of a new Macintosh dept that is raising the cost of the Intel Mini. Once there are a few rev's the price will drop and hopefully better specs.
28 Feb Event:
Intel Mac Mini : Do not buy
iPod Leather Case: Do not buy
iPod Hi-Fi: Do not buy
Well this seems to be a great event.
Spanky Deluxe said:
Welcome to the world of mac fanboys and the apple cult.
A large portion of apple followers are blind idoits who treat anything apple says or does at the word of god. Apple can do no wrong. There is a reason I make myself not pay attention to close to 50% of the post here because they are made by the poeple who have no opinan of there own (they are of the fact that apple can do no wrong and anything apple does is great).
This people will not pay any attention to the facts. A case and point is a lot of the people singing praise of the integreated graphic crap they are using now a few days ago where the same ones trashing it and saying how much better the 9200 was.
Or you can go look back and the rumor of apple going intel. One day before a lot of people where trash talking intel and saying how crappy it is. next day those same people are sing high praises of intel saying how great it is.
There the HP iPod that has a pattern closer to it. People hated HP until work with apple and then said they are best PC builder out there. Things start falling appart and they go back the other way.
Those are just 2 of the many examples out there.
cube said:
I forgot to mention that it should use a 3.5" hard disk, not this 2.5" sillyness.
(even with good graphics this would be a very possible deal breaker for me).
And now SODIMM? C'mon. Isn't this supposed to be a cheap machine?
And of course, Core Solo, a terrible expensive choice (costing $30 less than a Duo), when Celeron M would be perfectly good for the lowest-end machine (although I would have waited until April so that no Macs lack SSE3).
Where are people singing its praises? People are arguing that it was a reasonable compromise. No one is saying they prefer IG to a better card, if they could have it in the same form factor and at the same price.Timepass said:
Timepass said:
there are certainly some that literally worship Apple and think that Apple actually cares about them individually and they are trying to make their lives better, which is silly of course. some of us just make our living off of Apple and its products and need to care what goes on and buy a lot stuff. we have to be excited about the technology so we can sell it, install and implement it for our clients. Apple has ate its foot more than a few times. the Intel-bashing page touting the G5 for example. it's all business at the end of the day. for Apple consultants, sys admins, developers etc and Apple's products are our business. some of us can't just buy a $300 PC and do the work we do on it.