oh dear - now I want a PC

[Sehnsucht]

The situation with Adobe is somewhat similar. Out of the blue, Apple decided to become Adobe's #1 competitor through the release of software like Final Cut, Motion and Aperture (with the usual price dumping, of course). Adobe became very grumpy and responded by discontinuing Premiere and After Effects for Mac (they brought them back recently, though), and to this day they seem to show just a little more love for the PC version of CS. For example, if you want Photoshop in full 64-bit glory you have to use the Windows version, which has led some Mac Pro users to reluctantly do all their Photoshopping in BootCamp.

So yeah, it feels a bit weird to use Mac software from companies who secretly hate Apple... I half expect them to crash or just short fuse the machine out of pure spite.

The Adobe snafu is both funny and sad considering that the very first ever version of Photoshop was released on the Mac:

Annoying that Photoshop for Mac is still a 32-bit Carbon app. An eight-hundred-dollar app at that.

That's an alternative too, but in any event I think I should hold off buying the Mac Pro now due to the pricing weirdness.

In the US, the basic Mac Pro is $2499, and the MacBook Pro 17" is $2799, right? Would you buy the Mac Pro right now if the prices were reversed?

Yes and after I won the $1 billion Pepsi sweepstakes.

...The MBP was introduced in November '08 when the US dollar was cheap, the Mac Pro in March '09 when the US dollar was temporarily very expensive for about a week before dropping back to November '08 levels... so the next time the MP is refreshed they will probably have to slash $250 off the price, and that's when I'll buy one. With Dell this isn't an issue because they update their prices all the time, so I wouldn't have to pay extra for a USD spike that happened 3 months ago.

Is this the same reason that UK/Australia/NZ prices are so high as well? As I recall, there was no small amount of "WTF" from our poor friends across the pond when Apple released the updated Macs in March...

 

[Anuba]

The Adobe snafu is both funny and sad considering that the very first ever version of Photoshop was released on the Mac:

And doubly funny and sad considering Microsoft was a major early contributor to the original Mac.

And triply funny and sad considering John Knoll, the brother of the creator of Photoshop, was one of the main visual FX guys responsible for the abomination we know as Jar-Jar Binks.

Annoying that Photoshop for Mac is still a 32-bit Carbon app. An eight-hundred-dollar app at that.

Yeah, I'm actually skipping CS4 for Mac... I have two CS Web Premium licenses, one for Mac and one for Windows, but I only upgraded the Windows one to CS4. Adobe can have my money when they release CS5, provided that it's 64-bit.

Is this the same reason that UK/Australia/NZ prices are so high as well? As I recall, there was no small amount of "WTF" from our poor friends across the pond when Apple released the updated Macs in March...

Yeah, probably. I think the USD peaked against most other currencies in March, which is why everyone outside the US gasped at the new Mac Pro prices. Here's a diagram for USD vs SEK...

The point where the curve is at its very highest is March 4. The only time in ages that 1 USD broke the 9 SEK barrier. The new Mac Pro, iMac and Mini were launched on March 3, when 1 USD was worth 9.19 SEK. When the unibody MB/MBPs were introduced in November '08 it was worth 7.50 SEK, and today it's also around 7.50. So there was a steep 20% rise followed by a 20% drop, and Apple somehow managed to launch the new Macs exactly when the peak occured. Something tells me their Q2 2009 international sales will turn out to be abysmal... a price hike in the middle of the recession of the century... yay!

 

[mogzieee]

Vmware Fusion! Run Windows 7 on that and set it to Unity mode. Then you have full Windows 7 compatibility on OS X.

Much better option than Bootcamp because Vmware lets you run the operating systems side-by-side.

It's what I've done and it's awesome.

 

[Anuba]

Vmware Fusion! Run Windows 7 on that and set it to Unity mode. Then you have full Windows 7 compatibility on OS X.

Much better option than Bootcamp because Vmware lets you run the operating systems side-by-side.

It's what I've done and it's awesome.

From what I've read about Fusion, it's slower than Parallels, and worse, it screws up your software activations all the time. Apparently due to creating and changing a virtual MAC address, and this address is often used to create digital ID's for software with activation and challenge/response-type copy protection.

Parallels has its shortcomings as well, but nothing could be worse than having to re-activate your software all the time until you run out of activations...

 

[celtikmind]

If that Mac runs your applications well in bootcamp stick with it. If its starting to feel sluggish get a PC since its Windows apps you seem to need most. No sense in paying all that money for a new Mac if you are going to spend most of your time in Windows anyway.

I agree.

I switched to Apple almost 2 years ago and there has been one very apparent flaw I have noticed...the software companies write for Windows and not Apple.

I have to have a PC to use Autocad, Solidworks, Spice and a few other specialized apps.

I much prefer OSX, and I think Windows 7 is not that impressive BUT Apple charges ridiculous prices for their hardware and as long as you get less for the money, keeping the masses away from Apple, not many software companies are going to create all the apps we need, and that appears to be especially true in the engineering sector.
Face it, for your needs a PC works best and will be cheaper.

And while it is true PCs have many, many aggravating problems which OSX seems to not suffer from I can say after having an application specific PC with only the apps I need installed (very few) and staying off the network I don't have many problems with it.

Until Apple entices software companies to write apps for the platform the Macintosh is not a viable solution (for engineers anyway)

As it is, I don't see Apple making any change. They're far too happy with the iPhone and the consumer market. It's just sad in that aspect, they used to be the professional choice once.

Vmware Fusion! Run Windows 7 on that and set it to Unity mode. Then you have full Windows 7 compatibility on OS X.

Much better option than Bootcamp because Vmware lets you run the operating systems side-by-side.

It's what I've done and it's awesome.

In theory, yes. But you obviously haven't tried running an app like AutoCad in that way for real.

I have just installed Windows 7 on bootcamp, and I really like it. I do love Apple and OSX, but the software I would like to use most [Acad, Revit, 3DS Max] are all windows based......

Do I jump ship!!! Wish I didn't have these thoughts but MS has hit the nail with Windows 7 and is very tempting indeed.

I wonder if Apple has some tricks up its sleeve to combat this one.

BTW - I have been running my business on a mac for the last 3 years but still find it limited for design and architecture [I have vectorworks and have no interest in Archicad btw].

It is becoming frustrating a little bit!

As another architect, trying to get by using a Mac I've come to almost the same conclusion.

For me, it works fine for everything else other than CAD but that's what brings in the money unfortunately. So professionally I'm heading back to a PC. I would, however, still like to use a Mac for personal stuff but as Anuba writes, Apple prices here in Sweden have approached ridiculous levels. You could get a good quality PC for almost half the price and you wouldn't have fiddle around with Fan Control to keep the machine from going into a state of paralysis either.

This might result in me going all Windows 7/PC though I'm still eyeing a small MacBook for personal uses... but I no longer consider Apple as either Pro or having more dependable hardware. Sad but true.

 

[areusche]

I know I am in the minority , but I used Vista home pro 32bit for quite a while and I liked it. I switched back to my valid copy of XP home because well, it was valid . I took a Vista Home Pro OEM key off of a computer at Walmart and downloaded the DVD.

Vista's cost was not worth it which I personally believed contributed to its demise.

Windows 7 has completely exceeded my expectations especially on the 64 bit side of things. On my Pennryn macbook pro it has done nothing but been a wonderful operating system.

If they price this correctly I know it will be on par with Mac OS X.

I can't wait to have 10.6 and Windows 7 both running on my hard drive. Both operating systems are incredibly polished and will definitely be a blast to use.

 

[Stridder44]

Vista's cost was not worth it which I personally believed contributed to its demise.

Not really considering most previous versions of Windows was priced similarly. There were other factors (not relating to performance, which was only a problem pre-SP1), but that's another topic.

 

[ajpl]

Annoying that Photoshop for Mac is still a 32-bit Carbon app. An eight-hundred-dollar app at that.

The situation with Adobe is somewhat similar. Out of the blue, Apple decided to become Adobe's #1 competitor through the release of software like Final Cut, Motion and Aperture (with the usual price dumping, of course). Adobe became very grumpy and responded by discontinuing Premiere and After Effects for Mac (they brought them back recently, though), and to this day they seem to show just a little more love for the PC version of CS. For example, if you want Photoshop in full 64-bit glory you have to use the Windows version, which has led some Mac Pro users to reluctantly do all their Photoshopping in BootCamp.

So yeah, it feels a bit weird to use Mac software from companies who secretly hate Apple... I half expect them to crash or just short fuse the machine out of pure spite.

The only reason PS is not 64 bit on the Mac is simply because Apple changed their minds and dropped support for the code PS CS4 was being written in, leaving Adobe to halt writing the app halfway through the CS4 cycle. Nothing whatsoever to do with Adobe not liking Apple.
Yet an awful lot of Apple fanbois attacked Adobe and ignored the fact that it was solely Apple's change of mind that was responsible for the situation.
As an aside I use both OSs and PS is nicer to use in Windows as the PS UI is more refined in several subtle ways.

 

[ajpl]

Vista's cost was not worth it which I personally believed contributed to its demise.

I'd echo post above, price was not an issue. Most people get their OS with a new computer, very few actually buy a full price copy. And if you are bothered by price and want a newer OS, you can get an OEM version very cheaply and very easily. Vista is cheaper than Leopard IIRC. Multiple flavours of Windows are not good though and this is where Apple's one size fits all methodology is better.
Bad press did it for Vista. Like most software inc Leopard, it was buggy and horrid until updates came out, but MS bashing is default behaviour, just as Apple worshiping is, regardless of how good or bad either are. And Vista wasn't up to it when first released, jusrt like all previous Windows releases. Interesting that in my local Apple store one of the geniuses said he didn't usually install the new OS until the .4 update at least, just like how in my PC store they don't use the new OS until SP1.