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on the fence? skip TF2!

The benefit from using the regular cloaking watch is that ammo replenishes the counter. I swear by the motion one now, I've been playing long enough (only go on Dustbowl) to know the spots that you can wait out in and never get caught. They're all spaced 10 seconds apart too so I'm willing to bet Valve put them in intentionally ;).

All I play as is the Demoknight now. Demo+sword+shield, once you get 4 heads you're unstoppable.
 
Dagless said:
Actually it IS a level playing field. Valve are very good at balancing, and any new weapon that is too powerful will be nerfed swiftly. The Demomans seen so many nerfs :(.

None of the unlockable weapons are clearly better than the originals. Every single weapon has good and bad points. Take the pyro's flamethrower and backburner. The flamethrower has random crits, can airblast enemies/projectiles. The backburner has no random crits, but every hit from behind is a crit and theres no airblast.
The soldiers rocket launcher and Direct Hit? The Direct Hit's splash damage is non-existant but the rockets are much faster.
Sasha and Natasha? Natasha slows you down but does 25% less damage.

It's because of the new weapons having no clear advantage that people want them unlocked from the start.
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If they aren't clearly better, than why are so many people using them?
 
MrBean said:
And the reason why.... there is no level playing field. Almost every time I died, it shows me the weapon of the dude and it has some 25% chance to insta-kill or somesuch.
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I think you're reading too much into the other weapons. As Dagless mentioned, none of the new "unlocked" weapons (which I've actually gotten all of them through the random drop system or crafting) are "better" per se then the originals, they all have tradeoffs. They only offer advantages in certain situations, it isn't like once you get the different weapon you'll never use the original again. For example as a Pyro I hardly ever use the Backburner anymore, the original flame thrower's air blast is just too useful.

That is part of the strategy, deciding which weapons to use in a given situation. As a Heavy do you carry the shotgun for offensive value or the Sandvich (which regenerates health when eaten) or the chocolate bar (which boots total health for a short period of time when eaten). There is no one size fits all solution for every player.

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I can see why people would hate on this game at first. I tried talking a few people at work who swear by online games like MW2 into playing, and they said they hated it for the same reasons oftheheavens had; not realistic, kept getting killed in one shot by players who it seemingly takes an excruciating amount of time to kill.

That's the problem, though, with current online shooters, and it all started with Halo's "shield recharge" mechanic. Many gamers today are conditioned so that if they spend enough time not getting shot at, their health is automatically restored. But in TF2, that's where getting to know the maps come into play... knowing where the location of health packs are, knowing where the rest of your team is (and the likely Medic that's with them).

I pretty much started out the same way, disliking the unfamiliarity, but I guess the reason I kept playing was that it fascinated me -- it fascinated me because everyone seemed to know what they were doing, and that there wasn't a single "favorite" class that people were abusing to get easy kills. Even on 32 player servers, with 9 different classes, I never see more than 2-3 of any class on a single team.

And much of this is thanks to the sheer number of counters there are. Snipers can kill anyone with a well-placed headshot, but spend a lot of time in their scope and can't see anyone coming up beside them, and are hard-countered by spies. Spies have a timed cloak and are able to disguise as anyone from the opposite faction, making backstabs very easy, but can easily be discovered by the random Pyro spamming his flamethrower. Pyros are great at ambushing players around corners and the damage-over-time effect can be a real bother to anyone not near water or a medic/medkit... but they are weak at anyone attacking them from a distance.

There are plenty more, but these attributes are exactly what keeps me coming back to the game. I never get bored because I'm constantly switching classes during my respawn timer to make up for a team deficiency or because I simply want to get back at that Sniper that keeps picking me off.
 
MrBean said:
If they aren't clearly better, than why are so many people using them?
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1) Psychologically they're perceived to be better since you "achieved" them.
2) A lot of players, like myself, have been playing the game since it was in beta. A lot of those players either mastered the stock weapons or became bored with them.
3) They're a lot more fun. The game has become more silly throughout the years. The initial batch of weapons are bland, the "regular" versions. Whereas new weapons/items include boxing gloves, bow and arrows, a sandwich, a fizzy drink, a sword and shield, a pickaxe.

I like to switch between weapons personally. They totally change the play style for each character. The Flamethrower is more strategic than the Backburner, which is better for defence and sneaking up on the enemy. The Snipers bow forces him to become a more close-range fighter. A heavy might decide to switch to the Sandvich if there are no medics on the team. etc.
 
And that is another thing to mention, you can switch between "items" after each life. Just hit M and adjust your load out to fit the situation. This makes the game very flexible.

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Well I Loved it, I played it this week end (free demo) and I enjoyed it a lot. Sadly off line because my macbook can't handel this game. I was forced to play engineer, because my turet frags way better than me :).
 
I couldn't really get into Team Fortress Classic back in the day and when I finally tried this one I didn't like it at all. I'll take Bad Company 2 over TF2 any day of the week.
 
oftheheavens said:
ahh this comment made me mad and laugh at the same time. I am a Marine stationed now in Japan and have done 2 tours. One in Jordan and one in Afghanistan. Had my fair share of realism...

Back on topic. I think the main part i don't like about this game is how long it takes to kill someone. I have tried soldier with a rocket launcher and heavy with a gatling gun (have also tried other toons) and you can sit there and unload on others and they just won't drop. Best I got was 2 kills which were scouts.

O and i never completed the even 25% of the storyline in MW2 i bought it for the multiplayer.
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Strategy in TF2 is different than auto-aim, spray and pray shooters.

The game is for those who are skilled; the weapons in TF2 are designed to benefit those who can maintain accuracy. You need to keep hitting the target.

That's why people with no accuracy thinks it "takes a long time to kill someone." Again, spray and pray 1 shot kill does not work.

The thing is, each class / weapon has its benefits, but there is also a counter.

Btw if you know what you are doing in TF2, then it's like you are james bond, pretty much untouchable.
 
MrBean said:
What a crock o' ****.

Hopping up and down constantly does not equal skill.
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Actually it is a skill. It's not a matter of pressing space, you have to time crouches at the right time too. And chances are by doing that you're in a heavy battle so you've also got to focus on aiming and shooting too.

It's something that takes practice, that others can't do and gives you an advantage. Sounds like a skill to me!

As Consultant said, it's a PC FPS so aiming is important. The faster/better controls also allow for more complex evading tactics. You can't just fire wildly into a crowd (unless you're a Pyro or Heavy up close) and expect to win.
 
Another thing I really like about TF2 compared to games like Counter-Strike is the team based aspect lets my wife and I play together. She loves teaming up as a heavy/medic, pyro/medic or pryo/engineer and working together.

This is something you can really take to a higher level in TF2 compared to simply being on the same team together in other games.

.
 
I disagree with you completely. I'm guessing you probably didn't play a whole lot, or you suck at the game, that could ruin a game for anyone. Maybe you played with bad groups of people or something. Your opinion is your opinion and everything, but its hard to imagine anyone disliking the game.

TF2 is one of my favorite games I've ever played, and so many people would agree.
 
OGDaniel said:
I disagree with you completely. I'm guessing you probably didn't play a whole lot, or you suck at the game, that could ruin a game for anyone. Maybe you played with bad groups of people or something. Your opinion is your opinion and everything, but its hard to imagine anyone disliking the game.

TF2 is one of my favorite games I've ever played, and so many people would agree.
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It's like movies, books, cars, etc. What you may like, I may not.

I think it's a well made game but it just doesn't hold the interest for me. My favorite shooter is still CTF in the original UT.
 
chiefroastbeef said:
Well aside from the Spy's dead ringer and clock and dagger watches (though no weapons), I don't think any spy used the regular silver watch anymore. Even though the silver watch has a long clock time.

Valve is so active in TF2, and I love the humor, the videos they make, their writings etc is absolutely creatively hilarious. Read the description from this page:

"Mac users can experience the head-covering excitement by getting online this weekend and playing America's #1 war-themed hat simulator for themselves."

http://www.teamfortress.com/macupdate/earbuds/
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No good spy uses the CND. No self respecting spy uses the DR either.
 
^ I saw a fairly capable spy last night using the DR. It's great for getting heads with the Eyelander though, 1 spy with the DR=2 heads in quick succession.

Plutonius said:
My favorite shooter is still CTF in the original UT.
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That explains it all, you like unsupported, glitchy, unbalanced FPS games no wonder you don't like TF2 ;).
Nah I used to love UT as well, played it offline for years before getting a net connection and then years following. Then Valve showed up with their online games.
 
=/

Hearing someone say they won't play TF2 because it's unrealistic, is like hearing someone pass on the starcraft series, the warcraft series, the diablo series, the half life series, Unreal Tournaments and every single classic and new nintendo games (to name a few).

TF2 is a ton of fun, and in the beginning you should try to focus on one class. They all play so differently (speed/health/weapons and utility) that it's important not to spawn as one class, get killed and then rage-switch. In the beginning, find your niche and work on it...when you're comfortable, grab a new class. It's one of those "Easy to pick up, hard to master" games, where even after years of playing it, you still encounter people with new strategies (team or solo) that blow your mind and make you rethink the way you're playing.

Not to say I don't enjoy BFBC2 or MW2, but they are far from "realistic" in my mind...we're talking about video games here!
 
I've played it for pretty much the first time today. And it is the best and most fun online multiplayer I have played yet.
 
You should try http://www.ukcs.net/ them servers. They're quite local so the pings are low, they have very short respawn times and they've upped the capacity on most servers to 34 players.
 
MrBean said:
What a crock o' ****.

Hopping up and down constantly does not equal skill.
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First, there is nothing to stop you from doing the same thing, but good snipers can actually kill bunny hopping people with ease.

And no, I don't bunny hop. Actually it's rare to see bunny hop at the servers I play. As to classes that might seem hop:

Soldiers - their advantage is to shoot from high, but rocket jump hurts themselves

Scout - their advantage is evasion, but they have low health

Dagless said:
Actually it is a skill. It's not a matter of pressing space, you have to time crouches at the right time too. And chances are by doing that you're in a heavy battle so you've also got to focus on aiming and shooting too.

It's something that takes practice, that others can't do and gives you an advantage. Sounds like a skill to me!

As Consultant said, it's a PC FPS so aiming is important. The faster/better controls also allow for more complex evading tactics. You can't just fire wildly into a crowd (unless you're a Pyro or Heavy up close) and expect to win.
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Exactly. Rocket jumps and scout movement take skills and practice.

Yeah, even with heavy and pyro, you need to prioritize your target too, otherwise you'll die quickly because everyone would be aiming at you.
 
Yeah, and again about the inability to kill anyone quickly... that's definitely where skill comes into play. I know the Solider's rocket does more damage the more on target you are... and that comes from being able to mentally visualize where your opponent will be in the next second or two, however long it takes the rocket to reach that destination.

But in general, Team Fortress is a TEAM game. The more you run off alone, the easier you are killed... and the more you stick close to a few other players, the more you will kill together. Aside from the Spy or Sniper, I don't think there's any other class that you can go alone and still be successful. (Pyro with Backburner comes close, but even he/she needs to stay close to the team for heals and such.)
 
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