Once you go thin, you'll never go back (even if the air isn't for you)

[johnnyjibbs]

It did look pretty neat in the Regent Street Apple Store. But it didn't look particularly thin. ** Puts himself in the camp that doesn't quite get it **

I'd rather wait a few more years until they can get a MacBook Pro that thin, but without any compromise.

 

[rittchard]

It did look pretty neat in the Regent Street Apple Store. But it didn't look particularly thin. ** Puts himself in the camp that doesn't quite get it **

I'd rather wait a few more years until they can get a MacBook Pro that thin, but without any compromise.

You really don't get it. At the point there is a "thin MBP" as you call it, the "real" MBP will be twice as powerful and you'll be in the same quandry Engineering/tech = tradeoffs and it will always be that way.

As for price/performance, you can go and price a standard PC laptop with the same specs as an MBP. You can probably find something about half the price, but it wouldn't be a Mac. There are always compromises to be made in multiple categories, whether it be build quality, price, performance, size/weight, etc. The MBA is simply another, unique choice out there.

- - -

Back on topic, I'd agree it will be very hard to go back to a conventional size laptop. My old 6.3 pounder feels like the equivalent of a desktop now. I can't think of what would make me willing to go back. If I want/need full desktop performance (however that is defined), I'll use a desktop.

 

[Eric Piercey]

I get it, they're cool, but not everyone creams their jeans over simple lightness or prettiness for that matter. Futhermore, even if those things appeal, some applications require a powerful, portable, port-rich computer.

I like as much power and functionality as I can possibly squeeze into a portable device. Portable- to me- means can easily be moved from one location to another.

My desktop machine can't be easily moved. It weighs 50 lbs.

A MBP can accomplish many of the tasks my Mac Pro can however, and it can be moved around considerably more easily.

The MBA is even lighter still, but it costs the same and does much less than a MBP. If they could add another 10lbs to the MBP and make it 2x more powerful with 2 FW busses, a pro level 512 GPU, more storage - maybe weatherproof I'd be all over it. They could even make it butt ugly.

Some of the fashion minded people just don't get it- there are people in the world who actually need ports and actually do more than type in text. There are people who (know how to) get the computer to do real work, and the beefier the better.

edit.. I said "some of" the fashion minded. I realize there are fashion/design oriented types who do understand pro computing needs and I'm not trying to insult them. I'm just getting tired of people trying to justify their MBA purchases to the point of ramming them down our throats. Great! I can think of 100 things I'd sooner spend that amount of money on. Really. No really. ...Seriously. And yes I agree the MBA is very pretty. I'm sure you'll be the envy of the coffee house / airport.

 

[matt4077]

Some of the fashion minded people just don't get it- there are people in the world who actually need ports and actually do more than type in text. There are people who (know how to) get the computer to do real work, and the beefier the better.

Well I do genetic simulations, protein folding etc. I'd certainly call that real work. The MBA will make a great notebook. It's enough to test the algorithms, and the simulations can only be run the cluster, anyway.

It seems most people who claim to be "power users" spend most of their time obsessing about their computer instead of using it to do real work. Hint: retouching your Disney World photos is not work, it's sever dorkism.

There might be some professionals in graphics, videos or music that need fast computers, but even in that field the really great ones spend most of their time thinking or with pen&paper. These so-called "prosumers" mostly fail to realize that skill is more important than the tools you use.

 

[saltyzoo]

Well I do genetic simulations, protein folding etc. I'd certainly call that real work. The MBA will make a great notebook. It's enough to test the algorithms, and the simulations can only be run the cluster, anyway.

It seems most people who claim to be "power users" spend most of their time obsessing about their computer instead of using it to do real work. Hint: retouching your Disney World photos is not work, it's sever dorkism.

There might be some professionals in graphics, videos or music that need fast computers, but even in that field the really great ones spend most of their time thinking or with pen&paper. These so-called "prosumers" mostly fail to realize that skill is more important than the tools you use.

I'd say owning one computer to read email on the bus while looking rich and stylish, and another to "retouch your Disney World photos", neither of which meet all your needs, is more "dorkish" than having one awfully darn portable computer that you can do all your work from wherever you happen to be.

But, that's just me.

It is all about trade-offs. That's why I won't pan the air. For some people the trade-offs of the air are worth it. I'll still make fun of people who think so though. Some people think I'm silly for using a MBP as my only computer and not having a desktop. It's all about trade-offs.

 

[diabolic]

I'm just getting tired of people trying to justify their MBA purchases to the point of ramming them down our throats. Great! I can think of 100 things I'd sooner spend that amount of money on. Really. No really. ...Seriously. And yes I agree the MBA is very pretty. I'm sure you'll be the envy of the coffee house / airport.

Not half as tired as I am seeing the trolls hammering on the MBA, pretending that they are geniuses because they figured out they can get more processing power, ports, etc. for less money. For the most part, I don't see MBA owners banging on the people who want more specs, they are just saying "don't buy it then". As for the trolls who feel like they have to post 15 times "no firewire is teh suck" and "the MBA might have trouble browsing the web", they deserve worse.

We all know we are paying more money for less power. We get it. We don't care.

I don't care how anyone else spends their money and nobody should care how I spend mine.

Flipping around a quote I saw earlier, spec whores aren't the target market.

I have several Macs and PCs, desktops and laptops, and years of experience building most of them myself, so I know computers, operating systems, and specs. Part of my business involves image and it actually matters how things look, and how things are perceived. Honestly, I am able to charge more money for my work because of image and perception of quality. Using the MBA for client presentation will undoubtedly help that image and be more than worth it's cost to me.

There is nothing I will want to do on the road that I can't with the MBA.

There is a pretty big market out here for the MBA. I've already had several people plan on buying one after seeing mine.

 

[mashoutposse]

I'd still rather carry the extra 3 pounds and have a "real" computer.

Yeah, a "real" computer, like a loaded 8-core Mac Pro

 

[mashoutposse]

quantumbits does seem to have rather a large chip on his shoulder regarding the macbook air if you look at his post history.

If you really don't care about the MBA quantumbits, then why is it you can't simply 'let it go' ?

Instead you continually trawl the MBA subsection where you find any new thread and feel the need to troll attack within it.

The first week of doing this was sad, after three weeks of doing it, don't you think you should give it a rest - or try to work out what the 'real' issue you have with it is.

Either way I'm sure I'm not the only one who is bored with the same old venom and rhetoric you continually post.

They were all so sure that people would hate it once people saw it live and bought it and had to live with it -- "unfortunately," things aren't going that way

Fight the good fight, guys.

 

[kuwisdelu]

Some of the fashion minded people just don't get it- there are people in the world who actually need ports and actually do more than type in text. There are people who (know how to) get the computer to do real work, and the beefier the better.

edit.. I said "some of" the fashion minded. I realize there are fashion/design oriented types who do understand pro computing needs and I'm not trying to insult them. I'm just getting tired of people trying to justify their MBA purchases to the point of ramming them down our throats. Great! I can think of 100 things I'd sooner spend that amount of money on. Really. No really. ...Seriously. And yes I agree the MBA is very pretty. I'm sure you'll be the envy of the coffee house / airport.

I don't think it necessarily comes down to fashion/design-minded vs. pro-minded even. There are plenty of "pro" needs that can be satisfied with the MacBook Air, too, but they just happen to be different "pro" needs than a MacBook Pro would satisfy.

I think most people here understand--and I certainly do--that there are plenty of reasons not to buy the MacBook Air if it doesn't fit your needs. There are plenty of times that the power of a bigger machine is needed. But that still doesn't mean that the MacBook Air is only meant for those concerned with fashion or design or want to look cool on the train or in an airport or at Starbucks.

I help out with some advanced physics research here at my university that involves processing thousands upon thousands of events from particle collisions per second. Now that definitely needs some major computing power, and I think it qualifies as a "pro" computing need. But believe it or not, here, the MacBook Air and MacBook Pro are on level playing fields for it, because that's simply too much to ask of either of them. My professors' and my work mostly involve using SSH to remotely log in to a network (wirelessly, of course...) to submit jobs for the real machines to handle (and moreover, the machines that do that dirty work run Scientific Linux and would never fit in a laptop). And if you're a student or a professor that's also running back and forth to classes, and portability is important in that aspect, then the MacBook Air seems like a pretty good choice.

Now there are many other cases and examples that people could come up with, I'm sure, but I just thought I'd share my own. Just felt I should point out that "pro computing needs" != "high performance needs" necessarily. For some people it certainly does, like my friend in graphic design who runs Photoshop CS3 24/7, and he has a MacBook Pro. But the power of the MacBook Air definitely doesn't limit it to people concerned with fashion. Believe it or not, there are a lot of people doing some "real" important work on a lot less. My fiancee is doing research with a professor who was on the team that won the Nobel prize with Al Gore for research in global warming, and he runs Windows 95 on his laptop. I don't even want to imagine the specs on that!

 

[NAG]

Well I do genetic simulations, protein folding etc. I'd certainly call that real work. The MBA will make a great notebook. It's enough to test the algorithms, and the simulations can only be run the cluster, anyway.

It seems most people who claim to be "power users" spend most of their time obsessing about their computer instead of using it to do real work. Hint: retouching your Disney World photos is not work, it's sever dorkism.

There might be some professionals in graphics, videos or music that need fast computers, but even in that field the really great ones spend most of their time thinking or with pen&paper. These so-called "prosumers" mostly fail to realize that skill is more important than the tools you use.

Yeah, I use my MBA for pretty much the same thing. Basic lab work on the laptop and do the big stuff on a more powerful machine. I can see the Macbook Pro being useful for some people, but for completely different reasons than the Air being useful to people.

 

[Eric Piercey]

Mat and Diabolic,

Note the thread title, particularly the "(even if the air isn't for you.)" I'm not trolling at all. My response is merely this: Some of us aren't content with light and pretty. If the metaphor is to compare the MBA to women as the title intones, I'm going to have to say a thin pretty woman with little else to offer is quite inferior to the thin enough, pretty enough, woman with much more to offer.

Furthermore, if all I had to do was retouch photos of my trip to Disney I'd actually consider an MBA. That would mean I had money to spend on a Disney vacation. Diabolic is correct in that the spec whores aren't the target market, nor are people concerned with value. I do actually do video work -some of which involves direct capture from my "prosumer" camera's firewire port to the laptop's fw port... which incidentally also involves an expresscard slot.

I'm glad your customers get all gushy over your fancy laptop. Obviously you're dealing with the gadget loving yet non-technical professional sector which tends to lean toward the executive types. They see you with the latest cool toy and figure this guy is the real deal or at least doing something right.

I on the other hand film horses, and while horse people are many times well to do, they more often than not would see my excesses as a reason to question my prices. We prosumers are typically self-employed and budget minded, and deal on a personal level rather than with "reps" from and or execs from large companies. I'm clearly not as successful as yourself (which is now painfully obvious in my lack of an MBA) and will never be so without putting a third mortgage on my cardboard house if necessary to get an MBA to front success with. (just ribbing you here- but I'll admit I'm not a genetic engineer and I'm very proud of you. I'm sure it wasn't a picnic ascending to that position and you're well within your right to wave around your MBA. You should maybe just get one for the car, home, and office so you don't even have to move it around. Too bad they don't come in colors. (give it 3 months - Apple is very fond of this tactic and they know their target well)

No dude, I just pointed out that the MBA isn't for everyone and made mention that there are people to whom vanity is more important than utility. Good for Apple for catering to both. I'm not hammering the MBA- just those who keep waving them around like they're freakin' Rolexes and telling us we need them "even if they aren't for us" because they're just that great!

 

[NAG]

You seem to like attacking people for their choice in laptops. Really, your posts continually throw in negative connotations regarding people who use or like the Macbook Air.

When your main argument is attacking the person you might want to think what you are upset about.

The topic starter just talked about how much he liked the size of the MBA. If you're so hung up about the title implying that thin = better than wow. You really missed the point.

 

[diabolic]

I'm not hammering the MBA- just those who keep waving them around like they're freakin' Rolexes and telling us we need them "even if they aren't for us" because they're just that great!

If you can link to a post to back that up, I'll apologize. The thread title is obviously talking about the thinness alone, not saying it's better than more powerful systems.

EDIT: Also, no matter what your personal feelings might be, the thinness is definitely striking, and it's immediately what everyone I've shown it to has been drawn to.

 

[DPGX]

I work in a very technical portion of the industry and I have had numerous CCNA, CCIE and various other industry certified technicians stop by to check out my AIR since I purchased it and were quite impressed with it. Obviously spec for spec it doesnt compete with a Macbook Pro and I also love my MBP, but for the hardware Apple squeezed into this little unit its still pretty impressive when comparing to other ultra portable and lightweight solutions. Its not intended to compete with a Macbook Pro, and if you expect it to, obviously youre going to be let down by its performance from that standpoint however... If you travel frequently and anyone that has had to run through an airport in a hurry (and I have numerous people that will agree with me on this one) that 3 pounds is a giant difference.

If the Air doesnt appeal to you, maybe it does seem like a waste but for the market it targets, it does its job amazingly.

 

[ahaxton]

I love my MBA. I wanted something that was extremely portable and good looking. Its really amazing how a couple pounds and thinness can make it where you don't even give it a second thought to bringing it everywhere. To me and I think many others, if I need the power that you find in a MBP, I'd just use a desktop for that. I think with the launch of the MBA, I think it makes the MBP market actually smaller. I can now have the look and quality build of a MBP (maybe a little better even than a MBP) in an actual portable laptop. I was going to buy a MBP for sturdy construction, looks, LED backlight and backlit keyboard since it was my only choice for a laptop in the apple line that I would spend money on (MB is not my thing). If I needed to do something that would need the power of a MBP, I would use a desktop at home.

 

[Eric Piercey]

I'm not sure why I was even posting much less being an ass about it. I really don't care about the issue enough to warrant it, so I apologize. If your MBA makes you happy and does its job well you enjoy. MBA owners win, Apple wins.. and with Apple's success we all win. I've been bitter lately for many reasons.

 

[roland.g]

It did look pretty neat in the Regent Street Apple Store. But it didn't look particularly thin. ** Puts himself in the camp that doesn't quite get it **

I'd rather wait a few more years until they can get a MacBook Pro that thin, but without any compromise.

Sorry but the MBP is the PB case, and as evidenced it hasn't changed in some time and doubtful it will without some revolutionary changes in tech. So the MBP is not going to get any thinner for some time, at least 2-4 years if that.

As for all the MBA haters and trollers, not saying you johnny, just quantumbits and some of the others around, what their problem is, is that they anticipated an Apple ultra-portable and didn't get exactly what they wanted. It's as simple as that. They didn't think they would lose so much and expected Apple to find some ultra-Apple way to cram more ports and what not into it, defying all logic. And I have looked online at the Sony competition and it is equally priced and similarly powered. Many may say that the MBA is underpowered, however it is not a MBP nor meant to be. And for what it is meant to be, the 1.6/1.8 C2D will suffice and is competitive.

 

[ob81]

When the lights go out, the Air is just a thin computer that runs OSX with out an optical drive and has a crappy battery. It is thin. It is a thin computer that runs OSX. That's it. It is expensive also.

I think the Air is brilliant by the way, and I am in the portable market that the system claims to be in. I tend to think a little more into detail about expensive things because my son needs diapers and my wife needs shoes. After sleeping on it a few days, I figured I had to be a freaking idiot to buy that thing.

I will see you at 120gigs and under 13".

 

[roland.g]

When the lights go out, the Air is just a thin computer that runs OSX with out an optical drive and has a crappy battery. It is thin. It is a thin computer that runs OSX. That's it. It is expensive also.

I think the Air is brilliant by the way, and I am in the portable market that the system claims to be in. I tend to think a little more into detail about expensive things because my son needs diapers and my wife needs shoes. After sleeping on it a few days, I figured I had to be a freaking idiot to buy that thing.

I will see you at 120gigs and under 13".

Sorry but you have a relatively new Aluminum iMac, a new iPod Touch, an Apple TV, and a Santa Rosa BlackBook, so it doesn't seem that you're hurting too much to buy diapers and shoes, since all those purchases are fairly recent. And while I put diapers as a necessity, women's shoes can range from necessity to shoe fetish, which at this point picking up a MBA to add to your < 1yr old Apple collection is as well.

 

[leifp]

Compromise?

To those who think the MBA is a compromise and that a 'real' computer is like their MBP I just have a few words. ALL LAPTOPS ARE COMPROMISES. Don't want to make a compromise? Buy a Mac Pro and load it up. When I had my own business I had a nice dual 1GHz PowerMac with dual displays, blah blah blah and it ROCKED. Then I got a 1GHz PowerBook so that I could be portable while still doing pro-photo work. It was a compromise that no matter HOW it was tuned could not REMOTELY hold its own against my tower. I for one will only compromise for a laptop again as a secondary computer and in this respect the MBA is ne plus ultra and the moment I can afford it I will help Steve with his retirement fund... Grumpiness over. Thanks for reading...

 

[ahaxton]

To those who think the MBA is a compromise and that a 'real' computer is like their MBP I just have a few words. ALL LAPTOPS ARE COMPROMISES. Don't want to make a compromise? Buy a Mac Pro and load it up. When I had my own business I had a nice dual 1GHz PowerMac with dual displays, blah blah blah and it ROCKED. Then I got a 1GHz PowerBook so that I could be portable while still doing pro-photo work. It was a compromise that no matter HOW it was tuned could not REMOTELY hold its own against my tower. I for one will only compromise for a laptop again as a secondary computer and in this respect the MBA is ne plus ultra and the moment I can afford it I will help Steve with his retirement fund... Grumpiness over. Thanks for reading...

Exactly!

I can't believe some people don't just understand that for some of us a MBP would be overkill. Majority of us would not use all that power while being portable. There's a reason why there are powerful desktops. For a lot of us if we need power we'll use a desktop at home. Then theres of course us who don't need anything but the MBA. We need portability and sturdiness and never will need the power of a MBP or a powerful desktop.

 

[ahaxton]

Sorry but you have a relatively new Aluminum iMac, a new iPod Touch, an Apple TV, and a Santa Rosa BlackBook, so it doesn't seem that you're hurting too much to buy diapers and shoes, since all those purchases are fairly recent. And while I put diapers as a necessity, women's shoes can range from necessity to shoe fetish, which at this point picking up a MBA to add to your < 1yr old Apple collection is as well.

I'll have to agree. If you buy that much in Apple products in a short time span, you are not exactly worrying about diapers. I spend a lot on Apple and all in the past 6 months, but I'm not worrying where money is coming from for necessities. May be bad to say, but if diaper money is a worry, I think "freakin idiot" has already happened.

 

[ob81]

I'll have to agree. If you buy that much in Apple products in a short time span, you are not exactly worrying about diapers. I spend a lot on Apple and all in the past 6 months, but I'm not worrying where money is coming from for necessities. May be bad to say, but if diaper money is a worry, I think "freakin idiot" has already happened.

I refreshed my mac line-up the good old-fashioned way by selling my old stuff. Sold my old iPod, macbook, powerbook, macbook pro, and imac. I really only tacked on a few hundred extra bucks for all of my purchases.
It seems that the whole diaper thing was taken too far. This is to be expected here though. It was merely stated to emphasize that a little thinking before purchases in my situation is needed, and I would be a freaking idiot to blow money on a device that wouldn't be beneficial in the short/long-term.

 

[NAG]

Trying to win the hypocrite post of the year award? You're completely overreacting here. But I guess if you want to see idiots and enemies everywhere it would be nice if you expressed your oh so valuable opinions in a little more civil manner.

 

[QuarterSwede]

Now you all know why the 12" PowerBook was so coveted and why everyone was screaming for a smaller MacBook. Apple definitely went the extra mile. The Air even makes my 12" PB look like a cow.