OS 9 no longer shipping?

[alex_ant]

Originally posted by AlphaTech
So I gather you have yet to run any utilities on your computer. You are the reason the system is so crash prone. As for not needing to run utilities, what the f*ck gave you THAT idea???

What gave me that idea? Hmm. Linux. BeOS. QNX. Free/Net/OpenBSD, Solaris, AIX, VMS, RISC OS, IRIX, HP/UX... shall I continue? All operating systems which do not require "regular maintenance."

Filesystems which do not require "regular maintenance" in order to preserve their "health": XFS. BeFS. FFS, UFS, ext2fs, ext3fs, JFS. Those are only the ones that I can name off the top of my head - I'm sure there are at least three times more.

As for OS 9 being the "only operating systems in existence that is so crappy it actually REQUIRES you to run "utilities"", I guess you forgot how buggy the previous OS's were.

Sorry, yes, when I say OS 9 I mean all versions of classic Mac OS up to and including OS 9. All are crap.

Just because you are either too damned lazy, or stubborn, to run utilities on your computer, doesn't mean the OS is crap.

Yes it does.

One of the reasons you don't see utilities for unix systems, is because of how few there are out there. They have even less market share then Apple does. Linux is starting to become popular, mostly in niche markets. IBM is advertising that SOME of their servers come with it installed, which I am sure it does well on.

Firstly: Are you saying that Unix has less total market share than Apple does, all markets considered? I highly doubt that's true. It's almost as big on the server as Windows is on the desktop. Linux is huge on the server, where its market share is far larger than any Apple product by far.

Secondly: The notion that there are few third-party "maintenance" utilities on Unix systems is because Unix systems do not have large enough market share is ridiculous. If there's room in the market for a $10k Oracle database, I think there's plenty of room for a $99 disk utility. No, I think the reason there are no third-party maintenance utilities for Unix is, as I said before, because Unix does not suck.

Contact your local Apple store (or authorized service provider) and see what they tell you about running utilities on OS 9. I never give time frames for how often to run them, it all depends on what kind of work you are doing, and what they symptoms are. Someone doing a lot of Photoshop (or any other application that uses the drive often, or as a scratch disk) work, will need to run the utilities more often then someone simply checking email and surfin the net. If you have virtual memory active under OS 9, and your drive gets fragemented, you will see even more issues cropping up. Run the utilities, and surprise, surprise, they go away.

Are you understanding my argument at all, or are you merely ignoring it? For about the fifth time, I'm saying that you wouldn't have to run "system health" utilities on an OS if that OS were not crap.

Do what you want, but don't b*tch about OS 9 being crap and then refuse to run utilities to restore the system health.

OS 9 is utter poo and I refuse to run utilities to restore the "system health." Bugger that.

Oh, and documents DO go corrupt (all over the place, on all operating systems), and font damage can bring your system down pretty damn fast.

"Font damage." Keep telling yourself that - it doesn't happen on non-crap operating systems. Shall I wrap my OS 9 computer in tinfoil to protect my documents against harmful solar gamma rays as well?

"You used OS 9 without wrapping your computer in tinfoil first??? Way to go, now your fonts are all damaged! And you have the nerve to blame OS 9 for sucking??? How dare you!!!"

Alex

 

[eyelikeart]

re: utilities & maintaining one's system

it's quite simple...

if u don't regularly defragment & run some sort of utility on your system....u are going to subject yourself to a hellish experience....everyone knows that...

I almost never have a single problem with any of our systems at work or my TiBook because I regularly maintain them...

it's just like a car....it'll take care of u if u take care of it...

and your refusal to run a utility shows that u obviously don't really want to fix the situation and just want to complain about it...

if u aren't going to at least take AlphaTech's advice...then u should just drop it....he knows best out of most of the people here...

 

[alex_ant]

Re: re: utilities & maintaining one's system

Originally posted by eyelikeart
if u don't regularly defragment & run some sort of utility on your system....u are going to subject yourself to a hellish experience....everyone knows that...

Yes, everyone who runs OS 9 and before, and everyone who runs DOS and the non-NT based Windows knows that, because their OSes suck and they simply don't know that they shouldn't have to perform regular maintenance on their systems. Ask a BeOS user about regular maintenance and he'll say, "what are you talking about?"

I almost never have a single problem with any of our systems at work or my TiBook because I regularly maintain them...

it's just like a car....it'll take care of u if u take care of it...

Have you been following the thread? The car analogy has been brought up. A good OS does not need regular maintenance of any kind. Try telling a Solaris admin, who is used to seeing uptimes measured in years, "um, hello idiot, you need to reboot and run a disk utility every month!" He'll laugh uncontrollably. And Solaris is not exceptional - many other OSes have managed to be just the same. What I'm saying is that one (but definitely not all) of the reasons OS 9 sucks is because it requires regular maintenance.

and your refusal to run a utility shows that u obviously don't really want to fix the situation and just want to complain about it...

My whole purpose in this thread has become to explain that I shouldn't have to run (and pay lots of money for) a utility which should not even be needed by a good OS. What I'm saying is that if your OS requires regular maintenance, then there's something wrong with your OS.

if u aren't going to at least take AlphaTech's advice...then u should just drop it....he knows best out of most of the people here...

Personally I disagree with him strongly and I don't understand how he can possibly maintain that OS 9 is not technologically crap and still consider himself a card-carrying member of the anti-zealots, which is the whole point of our argument, as I see it. It's nothing personal. I understand though that he is your pal and you will defend him no matter how wrong he is, and that's fine. Another day, another flamewar.

Alex

 

[eyelikeart]

dude...it's not about defending anyone...it's about calling on someone for being stubborn and insensible...

just because u feel that u shouldn't have to maintain a system does not make your arguement valid...

and no I'm not going to read all of the quotations previous to where I jumped in here...that would be a waste of time...

on second thought....this isn't even worth the argument...I've read enough already to know that it won't matter anyway...

 

[alex_ant]

Originally posted by eyelikeart
dude...it's not about defending anyone...it's about calling on someone for being stubborn and insensible...

And I'm the stubborn and insensible one. Oooookay.

just because u feel that u shouldn't have to maintain a system does not make your arguement valid...

But because AlphaTech feels that you should have to maintain a system, his argument is valid by default - I see.

and no I'm not going to read all of the quotations previous to where I jumped in here...that would be a waste of time...

That's understandable. I'll summarize it for you:
- AlphaTech: Don't blame OS 9's instability on Apple, because it's all the fault of the software you run.
- Me: AlphaTech would call a blue translucent bag of poo compact and innovative if it had an Apple logo on it.
- AlphaTech: OS 9's not that bad. It only crashes once in a while.
- Me: And you don't do much multitasking, do you?
- AlphaTech: "Windblows" is 100x worse than OS 9.
- Me: Yes, but OS 9 still blows.
- AlphaTech: When was the last time you optimized your computer? You have to do this and this every X period of time etc.
- Me: The fact that you have to do that is further proof that OS 9 blows.
- AlphaTech: Run the utilities!
- Me: You're not understanding me. OS 9 blows because it requires regular maintenance whereas no other decent OS does.
- AlphaTech: Quit bitching and run the utilities!

See, it's like arguing with a Scientologist. You're just not going to get very far.

on second thought....this isn't even worth the argument...I've read enough already to know that it won't matter anyway...

Oh, come on, jump in. Flamewars are fun! What would Macrumors be without them? Pretty boring, I'd say.

Alex

 

[Beigean]

this awesome flamewar

i think alex has a point about alphatech's responses being kinda off topic. but alex, i think (as do most of the other posters, it seems) OS 9 isn't crap. we all know that technologically it's pretty inferior to modern operating systems.

but perhaps you should consider what the OS 9 engineers were able to do on top of that rickety 1984-single-user-single-task foundation. They were able to eek out a superior platform for several tasks (color correction, video, audio, etc).

it's not just because Apple spent hundreds of millions of dollars on development. Microsoft spent more money, i'm sure, on NT, which was technically superior to 9 but fell short in the areas of 9's excellence.

 

[alex_ant]

Re: this awesome flamewar

Beigean, I agree, the fact that Apple was able to make OS 9 into what is is today is amazing. In other ways, it is very nice. Nice GUI (although I'm not keen on the Finder), very easy to use, and relatively less overhead than (most) other modern operating systems, which is all great.

I do feel, though, that at least for my needs, OS 9 is crap, just based on its multitasking and memory protection capabilities and on its stability (which is reduced dramatically when multitasking). For people who use only one app at a time, I will concede that OS 9 can actually be quite good. But OS 9 has a lot of fundamental problems and I'll be glad to see it go. (Wow! Back on topic! )

Alex

 

[StealthRider]

Originally posted by j763
Reading between the lines, I doubt that Jobs was planning on no longer shipping OS 9... I wish he WOULD say that as OS 9 is an embarrasment for apple and should not be used by _anyone_ (excluding people who want an unstable OS which crashes every 5 minutes...)

OS 9 does NOT crash every five minutes. I've been running 9 ever since it came out, and i can tell you that it's almost never crashed, except for the time my sister put a floppy in the DVD-RAM drive on my B/W G3.

 

[eyelikeart]

all I know is that OS 9 does run much smoother than any Windows system I have had worked with...

OS 9 is not crap...it's just an updated version of the original Mac OS from nearly 20 years ago...I'd say it runs quite well on old technology...

and yes it is prone to crash....hence the typical Mac OS way...but it does a hell of a lot less than the Windows system we have at work which sits & does nothing...

alex u are stubborn...simply stating u should have to use a utility for OS 9 is dumb man...every system needs a utility at some point or another...I think u are getting off from this more than anything else...

 

[AlphaTech]

alex_ant, if you feel OS 9 is such crap, then why are you using it?? Utilities can also be compared to going to a doctor. Sure, most of the time you feel fine, and don't need to go. When you are sick though, do you go, or suffer through it for weeks (when you could have been all better in days, or less)? I get the impression that you go to dentists about as often as you run utilities on your computer (never). Go brush your few teeth and shut the f*ck up (if you bother to brush, since 'you shouldn't have to').

Good point StealthRider...

Hey eyelikeart... I would be that the dumb-a$$ alex will continue to feel that no utilities should be used on any computer. But he will continue to b*tch about OS 9 crashing on him. Any tech (especially Mac tech's) worth his daily coffee intake KNOWS that utilities are an essential part of support. Just as antivirus software is a much needed item in this day and age. Do you bother to have that alex??? Or do you gleefully accept all the viruses that are sent to you, and pass them along to your friends (if you have any)? How often do you get the updates to the definitions, if you even have an antivirus package?

I don't have the time to b*tch-slap you today alex... I actually do work for a living, and need to get back to helping people.

 

[alex_ant]

Originally posted by eyelikeart
all I know is that OS 9 does run much smoother than any Windows system I have had worked with...

You don't multitask much, do you.

OS 9 is not crap...it's just an updated version of the original Mac OS from nearly 20 years ago...I'd say it runs quite well on old technology...
and yes it is prone to crash....hence the typical Mac OS way...but it does a hell of a lot less than the Windows system we have at work which sits & does nothing...

Point taken. I'm just saying, though, that just because Windows sucks does not give OS 9 an excuse to. Thank golly for OS X.

alex u are stubborn...simply stating u should have to use a utility for OS 9 is dumb man...every system needs a utility at some point or another...I think u are getting off from this more than anything else...

Stubborn? What can I say, I'm not an Apple buttlicker. The notion that "every system needs a utility at some point or another" is simply wrong, and that's all there is to it. Yes, I kind of do like these flamewars, but only because they are fun and exciting. (Although I do believe I am right, of course.)

Alex

 

[alex_ant]

Originally posted by AlphaTech
alex_ant, if you feel OS 9 is such crap, then why are you using it?? Utilities can also be compared to going to a doctor.

Okay, I like that analogy - utilities can be compared to going to a doctor. In that case, OS 9 can be compared to an old man with herpes and prostate cancer who needs to see a doctor for treatment regularly. Windows could be considered similar. OS X could be considered much healthier, and most plain Unix could be compared to healthy 20 year olds who never get sick and don't even need health insurance.

Sure, most of the time you feel fine, and don't need to go. When you are sick though, do you go, or suffer through it for weeks (when you could have been all better in days, or less)?

I'd prefer not to get sick in the first place! Wouldn't you, if you had a choice? All I'm saying is that a good OS should not "get sick" and need "maintenance." Ever. Both OS 9 and earlier Windows are guilty of this, and even OS X and NT-based Windows are to a lesser degree - however, since you have apparently never used anything but any of these operating systems, you don't know what it's like to never "get sick," because you don't understand how that's possible.

I get the impression that you go to dentists about as often as you run utilities on your computer (never). Go brush your few teeth and shut the f*ck up (if you bother to brush, since 'you shouldn't have to').

OS 9 & dental hygiene. I am not making the connection. Please elaborate.

Hey eyelikeart... I would be that the dumb-a$$ alex will continue to feel that no utilities should be used on any computer. But he will continue to b*tch about OS 9 crashing on him. Any tech (especially Mac tech's) worth his daily coffee intake KNOWS that utilities are an essential part of support.

I'm glad you've taken to brazen insults, because it shows 1) that your argument is shallow and empty and that 2) since your reasoning has collapsed completely, calling me names is the only way you can think of to save face.

As I've been maintaining throughout this entire thread, utilities are only an essential part of supporting systems that are so shabby they need them. If I have to repeat that yet again, I think I'm going to have to resort to cut & paste, because retyping it is simply not worth the effort.

Just as antivirus software is a much needed item in this day and age. Do you bother to have that alex??? Or do you gleefully accept all the viruses that are sent to you, and pass them along to your friends (if you have any)? How often do you get the updates to the definitions, if you even have an antivirus package?

I'm a Unix person. What's a virus?

Alex

 

[eyelikeart]

u know what...