Thats the way it should be. Apple is committed to bringing the best OS to market running on high quality parts. The mystic of Apple is the experience of the whole computer package. I have heard this before from PC users who don't understand this simple concept. They are offering an alternative to Windows. The vertical intergration serves as a model of total control, the assurance that everything works and is easy to use. This concept presents a choice for the consumer, the wacky world of Windows and cheap hardware or rock solid, easy to use Macs. If you don't like that, then keep your bitching to yourself, because you made a choice to use a cheaper computer system. I believe quality products will always be in Apple's business plan and the OS will drive MS crazy for years because they have to run on everything from the cheapest PC to most expensive. And, MS has to be backward compatible because of their market share. Loyal Mac user for 16 years and loving it. I use Macs and Windows at work, DELL, Gateway and Custom-built box, all crap, from the hardware to the OS. They breakdown frequently and require way too attention (constant patches, constant anti-whatever updates and just plain ugly). The Macs just keep on ticking, like the Energizer bunny
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OS X running on PC?
- Thread starter DevinC
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I must be lucky than, our work computers and my personal ones were first generation and only have had one major failure, a power supply on a G4/DP 867. The computer I am typing this on is Rev A B/W G3/300, with the original HD, going on 7 years old now come Jan. From my PC buddies, I hear stories of failed MBs, failed HDs (after a year or two), power supply failures, leaking parts on the MB, the list goes on.
OS X runs smoothly because it only needs to support a limited amount of hardware. But the point of Apple offering better quality hardware is a dead point now after the intel transition. Macs use the same components as PCs, they may use more expensive and higher quality parts but you can get the same for PC if you're willing to pay for it.
I'll run these numbers again as the same question keeps coming up...DevinC said:
For the sake of argument lets work with these numbers... we'll say Apple makes $100 on each copy of Mac OS X, and we'll also say that the average price for Apple hardware is $2000 and the average profit on that hardware is $800. Let us also put Apple's market share at 4% for this.
Apple would need to sell 8 copies of Mac OS X for every Mac that isn't bought because someone put Mac OS X on another companies PC. If this cuts Apple's hardware business in half (dropping their new hardware market share to 2%) how much market share would Apple have to gain with Mac OS X on PCs to brake even?
Apple would have to have 16% market share (a total of 18% including the 2% from their own hardware sales) to make up for the loss of half their hardware sales.
And we are strictly talking about profits above and beyond what it cost Apple to make these things.
Now factor in the fact that Microsoft has pointed out that about 35% of Windows installations are pirated. Why would Apple get off any easier than Microsoft in this area?
So Apple would actually need to reach nearly 23% market share (or 25% total) to brake even with where they are now. And that is only if they lose half their hardware business. If they dropped their hardware all together they would need about 50% market share to stay as profitable as they are right now.
Even if they could reach 10% market share (which they possibly could by dropping their hardware business and letting everyone just buy Mac OS X for any PC), that is about one fifth of the current profits they are currently making at 4% market share restricting Mac OS X to Apple hardware.
No company is going to take a path to less profits... and Apple is no different. Mac OS X at 50% market share is a complete fantasy, and that number is the only one that could make them break even... we aren't even talking about an increase in profits, we are only talking about breaking even here.
*ahem* It is actually possible and has been done. Theres a legal way of doing it (PearPC) and an illegal way of doing it (OSX86)
Now see, why Apple doesnt do it, is if they open their platform, they have to support a metric a**load of hardware from all sorts of part makers, and there'd be lots of buggy drivers/buggy hardware, and lets see kitties, when you take buggy drivers, and add them to your OS, you get the nice "You need to shutdown your computer" box, which is the equalivent of the Windows XP STOP error! If Apple did that, Mac OS X wouldnt be much more stable than Windows is, and we all know how stable Windows is.
Oh, and BTW, those 400 dollar computers have some pretty s***ty specs. And then everythings also integrated into the motherboard, and they come with B-grade hardware, like off-brand PSUs and RAM and such. Trust me, I'd know, since I work at a Best Buy selling the damned things. The really cheap computers, theres a reason for their cheap prices, because they use lower quality components. The only company that makes a decent 500-below PC is Compaq, which uses HP drives, Western Digital HDs, Micron RAM, and ASUS motherboards (ASUS is the one of the ones who actually make your MB/MBPs), as well as Delta PSUs.
Now see, why Apple doesnt do it, is if they open their platform, they have to support a metric a**load of hardware from all sorts of part makers, and there'd be lots of buggy drivers/buggy hardware, and lets see kitties, when you take buggy drivers, and add them to your OS, you get the nice "You need to shutdown your computer" box, which is the equalivent of the Windows XP STOP error! If Apple did that, Mac OS X wouldnt be much more stable than Windows is, and we all know how stable Windows is.
Oh, and BTW, those 400 dollar computers have some pretty s***ty specs. And then everythings also integrated into the motherboard, and they come with B-grade hardware, like off-brand PSUs and RAM and such. Trust me, I'd know, since I work at a Best Buy selling the damned things. The really cheap computers, theres a reason for their cheap prices, because they use lower quality components. The only company that makes a decent 500-below PC is Compaq, which uses HP drives, Western Digital HDs, Micron RAM, and ASUS motherboards (ASUS is the one of the ones who actually make your MB/MBPs), as well as Delta PSUs.
yellow said:
From Apple's financial reports
They regularly report hardware profit margins in the range of 23-29%, which by retail standards, is HUGE, whereas most PC hardware makers average between 3-12%.........
The difference here being that 90% of costs of a new peecee stem from the licensing fees the mfgrs have to pay to M$ & Intel/AMD, leaving very little room for margin (profit) on the actual hardware itself.......
ReanimationLP said:
HAHAHAHAHA
How exactly did you come to that (ill-advised) conclusion, huummmmm ?
Compaq uses the exact same p.o.s, bottom of the barrel, mass produced, lowest cost components that all the other mfgr's use in machines of the same price ranges. Perhaps not in the same exact configurations at any given time, but still the same crappy parts nonetheless......
and btw, HP does not "make" their drives, they buy the components enmasse like everyone else does, from nec, fujitsu, mitsubishi etc etc....SAB: large qtys = lowest costs = no concern for actual quality or reliability!
SmurfBoxMasta said:
not quite. ms windows doesn't cost as much as you think for the oem. the reason the profit margins are so low on windows machines is because there are numerous other manufacturers producing similar computers. thus they are beholden to market forces. apple, on the other hand, is the only manufacturer to produce computers that can run os x. thus they can set their own prices independant of other manufacturers (at least to some degree). their main competition is themselves.
yellow said:But can Apple survive the revenue loss if they switched to your model?
After all.. who is going to buy a $2000 Mac when they can get OS X on a $400 piece of **** Gateway or Dell?
Can they charge a $1600 licensing fee? I don't think so.
This is the answer everyone should receive.
Ah okay. Thank you for the insight everyone.
I think it's a good deal to buy a MacBook that are capable of duel booting into OSX or Windows. Yet have quality hardware.
And an added bonus, Mac don't deappreciate nearly so much as a normal PC.
It is still a good investment though.
Cheers,
Devin
I think it's a good deal to buy a MacBook that are capable of duel booting into OSX or Windows. Yet have quality hardware.
And an added bonus, Mac don't deappreciate nearly so much as a normal PC.
It is still a good investment though.
Cheers,
Devin
MacOS X is what it is because Apple develops the OS to run on a specific range of hardware.
One of the reasons Windows runs so crappy is because they have to write an OS that will run on just about anything you feel like putting it on.
Really.. it's amazing that Windows works as well as it does, when you consider the wide range of computers it will work on.
Can you imagine if you were a musician, and had to make a CD that would play on thousands of different format CD players?
Apple could release their OS to PC owners, but two things would happen: First, their already meager share of the hardware market would collapse. Who's going to buy a $3,000 Mac when they can buy identical hardware in a PC for half the price? Second, MacOS X would run like dog crap. Like Windows with a prettier interface.
Apple makes it's money by inflating the cost of the computers. Don't give me this rot that Apple uses 'superior' hardware and thats why it costs more.. it costs more because they know the Mac faithful will shell out the bucks.
The truth is, all Apple needs to do is what it's doing right now to increase market share. Sell customers a low cost machine (MacMini) that lets the customer run both XPee and OSX.
That way, the average PC user can get a neat little computer at an affordable price, and run Windows, and get a first hand taste of OSX.. and hopefully, people will start to see the significant difference, and start using OSX more than XP.
A taste is all they need, and the proof is in the proverbial pudding.
Many people who have used or experimented with the osx86 bootleg installs on their PC hardware have gotten enough of a taste to go out and buy a real Mac.. heck, even one of the guys responcible for cracking the Developer OSX version for use on PC's has a website soliciting donations to fund a 'real Mac' purchase.
One of the reasons Windows runs so crappy is because they have to write an OS that will run on just about anything you feel like putting it on.
Really.. it's amazing that Windows works as well as it does, when you consider the wide range of computers it will work on.
Can you imagine if you were a musician, and had to make a CD that would play on thousands of different format CD players?
Apple could release their OS to PC owners, but two things would happen: First, their already meager share of the hardware market would collapse. Who's going to buy a $3,000 Mac when they can buy identical hardware in a PC for half the price? Second, MacOS X would run like dog crap. Like Windows with a prettier interface.
Apple makes it's money by inflating the cost of the computers. Don't give me this rot that Apple uses 'superior' hardware and thats why it costs more.. it costs more because they know the Mac faithful will shell out the bucks.
The truth is, all Apple needs to do is what it's doing right now to increase market share. Sell customers a low cost machine (MacMini) that lets the customer run both XPee and OSX.
That way, the average PC user can get a neat little computer at an affordable price, and run Windows, and get a first hand taste of OSX.. and hopefully, people will start to see the significant difference, and start using OSX more than XP.
A taste is all they need, and the proof is in the proverbial pudding.
Many people who have used or experimented with the osx86 bootleg installs on their PC hardware have gotten enough of a taste to go out and buy a real Mac.. heck, even one of the guys responcible for cracking the Developer OSX version for use on PC's has a website soliciting donations to fund a 'real Mac' purchase.