OSX and Exchange Server: Confirmed Fail

[Alameda]

Microsoft officially announced that MS Outlook 2011 will not work at all with El Capitan. It crashes when synchronizing with an Exchange server. No date of a fix yet.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3098396

Shortly after you start Microsoft Outlook for Mac 2011 on Mac OS X El Capitan (version 10.11), Outlook hangs when it tries to sync with the server. The Spinning Wait cursor is displayed, and the application status is displayed as "Not Responding."

Workaround: To work around this issue, run Outlook for Mac 2011 on Mac OS X Yosemite (version 10.10) or an earlier version.
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Why did Apple release an OS that does not work at all with the widest-used email client and server in the world? Did they do any QA testing whatsoever? i'm pretty certain that every QA hack in the entire universe knows to test against MS Office. "Oops! We forgot to see if MS Office works?" What kind of utter nonsense is that?

Is it possible to uninstall El Capitan? Do I have to roll back using Time Machine?

 

[Beavix]

There is a much newer version of Outlook for Mac, you know.
Apple is not responsible for old 3rd party apps not being up-to-date.

 

[Akitakoi]

I can't get Outlook 2011 OR 2016 to work, lucky I have webmail set up and my iPhone works fine but it's a PITA.

 

[kryten42]

2016 resolved this for me. It migrated my settings fine too.

 

[Beavix]

For me Outlook 2016 works well with El Capitan (I'm using an Office 365 account).

 

[fishkorp]

It's not Apple's fault. They're not responsible for 3rd party products and services. It's the reason they have a long beta period, so the developers of the products can fix them/get them ready for the new OS. More than likely, Microsoft just wants all Office 2011 people to upgrade to 2016.

 

[Alameda]

It's not Apple's fault. They're not responsible for 3rd party products and services. It's the reason they have a long beta period, so the developers of the products can fix them/get them ready for the new OS. More than likely, Microsoft just wants all Office 2011 people to upgrade to 2016.

SERIOUSLY?
Nobody at Apple tests for compatibility with MS Office? Of course they can't test every app, but MS Office? I think Apple's got the resources to test it.

 

[MacFrag]

Thread title is completely wrong.

Apple is not responsible for this.

Users should upgrade there software if they want it to work on the latest OS X.

 

[Alameda]

Thread title is completely wrong.

Apple is not responsible for this.

Users should upgrade there software if they want it to work on the latest OS X.

The failure is also reported with the newer Outlook as well.

 

[Akitakoi]

The failure is also reported with the newer Outlook as well.

Brand new install of office 2016 and it will not connect to sync mail, server is 2010 fully updated so that's not the problem either.

 

[MacFrag]

The failure is also reported with the newer Outlook as well.

It's not Apple's fault.

I do understand your frustration but you are directing your frustration in the wrong direction.

Please understand that Apple can't do anything about this. You are blaming Apple for something they have zero influence on.

It's not Apple's responsibility to make sure all third party apps work with any Operating System they have.

 

[iamasmith]

SERIOUSLY?
Nobody at Apple tests for compatibility with MS Office? Of course they can't test every app, but MS Office? I think Apple's got the resources to test it.

It's usually up to the application developer to support the OS.

Personally I can't afford the approximately 2Gb RAM that Outlook uses and need all my RAM at work for Fusion virtual machines - for that reason I use the Mail.app, Calendar.app and Contacts.app for all my Exchange stuff and at home the only reason I still have Office installed is the extra fonts.

 

[tony_glasgow]

It's not Apple's fault.

I do understand your frustration but you are directing your frustration in the wrong direction.

Please understand that Apple can't do anything about this. You are blaming Apple for something they have zero influence on.

It's not Apple's responsibility to make sure all third party apps work with any Operating System they have.

If next year iOS10 where to break compatibility with ALL existing applications, requiring you to either buy all new apps from a new app store would you be upset? Of course you would be. But according to your logic it's not Apple's job to support existing applications...

To give an example of why it's an issue for Apple...

• Outlook 2011 worked until El Capitan BETA 3
• Apple changed something to break Outlook
• My company uses Exchange 2007 and so Outlook 2016 is out the question in the short term
• Upgrading the entire company's Exchange infrastructure is being planned but takes time to roll out
• My company's senior management team all use Macs + Outlook 2011 (among many other staff)
• The first one to upgrade to El Capitan isn't going to wait weeks for a solution

It's not a stretch that in this situation given a choice of 1) giving up their machine to allow someone to downgrade to Yosemite, 2) waiting weeks for a solution, 3) jumping onto a Windows 10 PC there is a good probability that Option 3 is the most likely. Once the first one moves back to PC then it's easier for the next to justify the move, and so on...

This isn't a hypothetical scenario, but one likely to play out in my company over the next week.

Yes Microsoft have to fix this, but Apple also have to know that when they break compatibility they are introducing these kinds of discussions in companies across the world. An OS and 3rd party applications have a symbolic relationship - one can't exist without the other. Just ask Blackberry or Windows Phone.

Just look at the grief Vista got for deciding to break driver compatibility or introducing UAC. That cost MS big in lost Windows revenue. Apple are risking the same situation here....

 

[masotime]

You're not completely shut off from Exchange. You could just use the native Mail and Calendar apps provided by OSX in the meantime.

 

[Alameda]

You're not completely shut off from Exchange. You could just use the native Mail and Calendar apps provided by OSX in the meantime.

Pretty certain that using Time Machine to back out El Crapitan will be a way easier solution.

 

[simon lefisch]

it's not Apple's job to support existing applications...

To give an example of why it's an issue for Apple...

• Outlook 2011 worked until El Capitan BETA 3
• Apple changed something to break Outlook

• 
  Correct. It's not Apples job to develop an OS that works with apps. It's the app devs job to adapt. As stated previously, they have betas for a reason. Even though they changed something that broke Outlook 2011, it may have been something that improved the OS itself. It's Microsoft devs jobs to keep up with the beta cycle in order to change their code and update their apps as necessary.
  
  Don't get me wrong, I understand the frustration, however it is in no way Apples fault that a Microsoft product does not work properly. The same applies for iOS.

 

[campyguy]

One of our Macs had issues with Office 2011 Pro - Outlook and Word, the two apps used in the suite on that Mac. The short-term fix was to disable - in the Spotlight Pref Pane - "Contacts", "Events", and "Mail & Messages".

I use those two apps in the 2016 Office suite, and made the same changes to Spotlight's Prefs - no problems with either app. FWIW, we run all of our apps in a Standard User Account. Connecting to both Office 365 email and a 2013 Exchange Server.

 

[Alameda]

• 
  Correct. It's not Apples job to develop an OS that works with apps. It's the app devs job to adapt. As stated previously, they have betas for a reason. Even though they changed something that broke Outlook 2011, it may have been something that improved the OS itself. It's Microsoft devs jobs to keep up with the beta cycle in order to change their code and update their apps as necessary.
  
  Don't get me wrong, I understand the frustration, however it is in no way Apples fault that a Microsoft product does not work properly. The same applies for iOS.

It is 100% Apple's fault. 10,000% Apple's fault.
WHO released El Capitan? WHICH company has a product manager who read through the bug reports and decided that his product was ready for his customers to use? It wasn't somebody at Microsoft. They could have called them up, gotten the fix, waited a day or two, put out a warning, scanned your drive and told you not to install for a week.

Apple is turning into a "We Don't Care" company. They did this in 1994 and they're doing it again. I understand that you can never be compatible with everything, but Exchange e-mail is what a majority of corporate users require for their day-to-day work.

NO product manager at Dell or Lenovo would DREAM of shipping a laptop that didn't work with MS Outlook. A PM who did that would be fired on the spot. No question. I don't know what this PM was thinking. If it's not fixed tomorrow, this laptop goes back to Best Buy and I'll go back to Windows. I can't work without email. The computer's a brick as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Roller]

There's blame on both sides. Apple released an OS upgrade that isn't compatible with an app that's important to the enterprise customers it's purportedly trying harder to attract. And, as a major developer, Microsoft should have tested all the Office 2011 apps against beta builds of El Capitan, especially since they've announced that the 2011 suite will be supported until October 2017. That means making sure it works with at least 10.11 and 10.12.

 

[iFoggy]

From what I have found with Outlook over the years it is their 'auto discover' feature they have in Exchange which repopulates the webmail settings, for some 'reason' if you are on on the Exchange network i.e. can see the Exchange server names Outlook will connect, names not available no connection or sometimes after a time has passed it does eventually connect, latest version 2016 does exactly the same, you can change the server names but they will be replaced next time you login, 2011 also did this to me.

in Apple mail you get a tick box called 'Automatically detect and paint...', also ensure that is off and then manually setup your connection to Exchange off premise

Maybe this is 'intended' by MS so we get to experience what the rest of their base has to ensure by starting up in the morning and leaving it all alone for about 15 minutes until it boots and settles, they give us the same experience on the Outlook connection being so slow....Mine just connected since starting this post....no thanks back to Apple Mail for me, not as feature rich but it light and response.

 

[tigres]

You're not completely shut off from Exchange. You could just use the native Mail and Calendar apps provided by OSX in the meantime.

Those suck too with exchange integration. Apple cannot do mail, period.

 

[Alameda]

it is in no way Apples fault that a Microsoft product does not work properly.

So you aren't competent to work at Apple either. Ok.

Apple just put all of their enterprise customers dead in the water. We can't change our email server. We can't spend our days not reading email. And some jerk at Apple decided to ship a product that kills his entire Enterprise base?

Steve Jobs once called a Google exec on a Sunday morning to ask if he could change the shade of green used on the Google iPhone app icon. Do you really think he'd release an OS that didn't work with Outlook? He took $160 million from Bill Gates. Of course he knew that Microsoft compatibility mattered.

 

[teezy]

I haven't had an issue with Outlook 2011 or 2016 on El Capitan yet... my school and job both use Exchange, so that's what I use for email.

 

[Alameda]

I haven't had an issue with Outlook 2011 or 2016 on El Capitan yet... my school and job both use Exchange, so that's what I use for email.

Your luck isn't likely to hold out, as Microsoft officially stated that the combination doesn't work.

 

[RickG]

really upset that I upgraded now- had I know that Office 2011 would not work with the new os I would not have upgraded- dam