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speakerwizard

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Aug 8, 2006
1,655
0
London
just to throw this into the mix, i remember microsoft using G5 powermacs as early dev kits for the 360 and even as demo machines in the early demoing staging of the platformds dev so, if microsoft can do it ;) (we're talking about a company that cant bring video chat to the mac here when open source does)

EDIT:

http://images.google.com/imgres?img...&svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&client=safari&rls=en&sa=N

also...

http://news.com.com/2100-1043_3-5706658.html

i wonder if someone could get ahold of one of these and have a look to see what it would take to run a 360 game on a quad
 
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popper1

macrumors newbie
Nov 22, 2006
4
0
The Wii would actually be better; the PS3 uses the Cell processor, of which one part is a PPC chip, and it's a very stripped down processor that doesn't even do out of order execution.

The Wii basicly has a high-end G3 like the ones used in the last iBooks, with some tweaks to make it better for gaming.

In fact, if you could install OS X on an external USB hard drive and hook it up, OS X would probably run perfectly after you hack the Wii to get it to boot. Although compared to a desktop the Wii has a pitiful amount of RAM (less than 128 MB IIRC).


sorry , i fail to see how you equate a machine with a slower CPU and without a harddrive as standard,(perhaps later?) as better, perhaps on price?.

it seems several readers are assuming a lot of things that are just plain wrong, for instance 'the PS3 uses the Cell processor, of which one part is a PPC chip, and it's a very stripped down processor' is wrong....

its a fully operational PPC CPU with ALtiVec(running at 3.2), and 'that doesn't even do out of order execution' IS NOT the main CPU (as you imply) that feeds the other units, its they that are so called cut down units ( the so called SPE's)that dont do out of order calcs and thats by design for faster, simpler operation on Vectorising calcs etc.

lets NOT forget the PS3 main CPU is running at 3.2 so can do plenty of work even before the PPC linux maintainers (mostly Genesi/Peg2 Devs now) even look to include SPE's code , they are commiting this code right now by the way.

read this for an overview http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/cpu/cell-1.ars

heres an extract
"As you can see, IBM has eliminated the instruction window and its attendant control logic, in favor of adding more storage space and more execution hardware. A Cell SPE doesn't do register renaming or instruction reording, so it needs neither a rename register file or a reorder buffer. The actual architecture of the Cell SPE is a dual-issue, statically scheduled SIMD processor with a large local storage (LS) area. In this respect, the individual SPUs are like very simple, PowerPC 601-era processors.

The main differences between an individual SPE and an early RISC machine are twofold. First, and most obvious, is the fact that the Cell SPE is geared for single-precision SIMD computation. Most of its arithmetic instructions operate on 128-bit vectors of four 32-bit elements. So the execution core is packed with vector ALUs, instead of the traditional fixed-point ALUs. The second difference, and this is perhaps the most important, is that the L1 cache has been replaced by 256K of locally addressable memory. The SPE's ISA, which is not VMX/Altivec-derivative (more on this below), includes instructions for using the DMA controller to move data between main memory and local storage. The end result is that each SPE is like a very small vector computer, with its own "CPU" and RAM. "

"The SPE's very simple front end can take in two instructions at a time, check to see if they can operate in parallel, and then issue them either in parallel or in program order. These two instructions then travel down one of two pipes, "even" or "odd," to be executed. After execution, they're put back in sequence (if necessary) by the very simple commit unit and their results are written back to local memory. The individual SPUs can throw a lot overboard, because they rely on a regular, general-purpose POWERPC processor core to do all the normal kinds of computation that it takes to run regular code. The Cell system features eight of these SPUs all hanging off a central bus, with one 64-bit POWERPC core handling all of the regular computational chores. Thus all of the Cell 's "smarts" can reside either on the PPC core, while the SPUs just do the work that's assigned to them."

some PS3 SPE PPC maintainers/hackers http://www.powerdeveloper.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=927

you could always go and try PPC Mac-On-Linux after you install any current PPC linux and report back here how it went, perhaps if you alrady have a PS3 and a web connection you might ask if people like Lu-Zero http://cia.navi.cx/stats/author/lu_zero might like to access your netted linux ps3 to help him make his valued work more accessable etc...... or buy him a ps3 LOL.


i imagine that once someone makes available the better ps3 hardware gfx drivers then things will improve even more in a short time....

lets also not forget that you can net boot the current ps3 in otherOS mode so that also makes its value far greater for future turnkey projects.

Running OS X on the cell architecture is not trivial as one might think. The cell architecture emphasizes computational throughput over simplicity of program code and your OS must be coded to fully utilize the PPE and attached co-processors. btw, since March Linux 2.6.16 already (officially) supports the cell microprocessor .


as regards getting a current PPC Linux installed and running, (im not sure if anyones tryed running MOL there yet?)
Lu-Zero said here http://www.powerdeveloper.org/forums/posting.php?mode=quote&p=5583
"Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 7:34 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

the quickest way to get it running is just fetch or produce a standard stage3 image, add a default kernel for ps3 (the latest cell-sources should do) and it should work. (if you have a powerpc or a ppc64 would be easy since you can chroot inside)

I'm not 100% sure since I don't have access to a system...

Currently I'm trying to update the toolchain snapshots to let people start using spus and ppu specific instruction scheduling since running generic or g5 tuned binaries could lead you to a delusion ^^ (it could be quite slow due misses, pipeline bubbles and other stuff you can avoid compiling for the cell target)

I'll try to prepare a quick recipe to let you play at the earliest, give me at least a day or two to be more sure.

ping me on irc in few ours (since I have to do something in this evening and I won't available now) or send me an email if you want to act as guinea pig (requirements: crossdev, time, patience) "


as you can see above (links)it is almost trivial ;), unless your refering to the longer term goal of optimising for the specialist SPE's, then yes for now at least, but give it time and effort, as for now it runs or will run as soon as someone trys MOL and gives feedback to the devs if it didnt, fun factor fix 2 days+ estimated. :cool:

as a starting point anyone with a ps3 and wanting help with PPC based Mac-On-Linux should perhaps start asking here
http://www.powerdeveloper.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=27 as thats were many devs etc hang out....
see their IRC channels too to get and give access to hard working people that want this to grow....

where did you get that number from if may ask?

I was told the wii runs at like 1.1ghz or so and cnet said this just an upgrade version of what we saw in the Game Cube. What was the fastest G3 chip out?

the fastest G3 is 1 gig i seem to remember.
 
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mdawg4624

macrumors newbie
Apr 6, 2006
5
0
This Might Help!! Someone Try! Os X On Xbox

First off, I just picked up my PS3 today and i've been toying with it for the past few hours. I would love to try to get os x on this thing, but I need everyone's help. First off take a look at this. http://www.playstation.com/ps3-openplatform/manual.html Thats sony's site that tells you how to install another os on a ps3. Right now i'm gettin stuck on step 4 'Save the boot loader file on the recording medium.' Does anyone know where I can find the bootloader file for the ppc version of osx? I have the install disk for ppc v. os x 10.3 and 10.4.4 but I don't know where to obtain the bootloader for either of these versions.

Second off, I stumbled across this site detailing how to install os x on an xbox. http://www-static.cc.gatech.edu/~ranma1/mac_install.html Considering the xbox and the ps3 basically have ppc chips in them i figured the process should hopefully be about the same. If someone can send me the link for a bootloader for os x (ppc version of course) we can get this show on the road. I'd love to have my $600 ps3 be my new 'mac mini' in the living room. I really only bought this thing for that reason. I've had this thing running for 4 hrs now and haven't even played the game i bought yet!! I JUST WANNA INSTALL OS X!! HELP ME OUT PEOPLE!! :)
 

speakerwizard

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Aug 8, 2006
1,655
0
London
First off, I just picked up my PS3 today and i've been toying with it for the past few hours. I would love to try to get os x on this thing, but I need everyone's help. First off take a look at this. http://www.playstation.com/ps3-openplatform/manual.html Thats sony's site that tells you how to install another os on a ps3. Right now i'm gettin stuck on step 4 'Save the boot loader file on the recording medium.' Does anyone know where I can find the bootloader file for the ppc version of osx? I have the install disk for ppc v. os x 10.3 and 10.4.4 but I don't know where to obtain the bootloader for either of these versions.

Second off, I stumbled across this site detailing how to install os x on an xbox. http://www-static.cc.gatech.edu/~ranma1/mac_install.html Considering the xbox and the ps3 basically have ppc chips in them i figured the process should hopefully be about the same. If someone can send me the link for a bootloader for os x (ppc version of course) we can get this show on the road. I'd love to have my $600 ps3 be my new 'mac mini' in the living room. I really only bought this thing for that reason. I've had this thing running for 4 hrs now and haven't even played the game i bought yet!! I JUST WANNA INSTALL OS X!! HELP ME OUT PEOPLE!! :)

cool, someone is giving it a go, sorry im no expert, but there are some very knowledgeable people on here and on http://forum.insanelymac.com/ where they are VERY knowledgable when it comes to hacking osx esp member rammjet (and before anyone whines about this, its for fun, most people who hack osx own a mac and do it for fun / hobby interest. Good Luck and keep us posted
 

mdawg4624

macrumors newbie
Apr 6, 2006
5
0
need open firmware

seems like i need a version of open firmware as my bootloader, but of course i can't find it anywhere to d/l it. any suggestions?
 

pip11

macrumors member
Apr 29, 2005
40
0
here's how you do it:

install linux (fedora core 5 will work fine)

install maconlinux http://maconlinux.org inside of linux

there isn't a chance in hell that OS X will be booting bare metal on the PS3 anytime soon, but I don't see why maconlinux wouldn't work. As a plus, it should be able to boot OS 9 also.
 

mdawg4624

macrumors newbie
Apr 6, 2006
5
0
ubuntu

will ubuntu run maconlinux? and does anyone have any experience with mac on linux? whats the speed like? like virtual pc, or parallels speed?
 

Catfish_Man

macrumors 68030
Sep 13, 2001
2,579
2
Portland, OR
it seems several readers are assuming a lot of things that are just plain wrong, for instance 'the PS3 uses the Cell processor, of which one part is a PPC chip, and it's a very stripped down processor' is wrong....

its a fully operational PPC CPU with ALtiVec(running at 3.2), and 'that doesn't even do out of order execution' IS NOT the main CPU (as you imply) that feeds the other units, its they that are so called cut down units ( the so called SPE's)that dont do out of order calcs and thats by design for faster, simpler operation on Vectorising calcs etc.

You're incorrect that the PPE is out of order; it's a dual-issue dual-thread in order core, so very primitive architecturally. That said, 3.2GHz goes a long way towards overcoming that; I would expect a PPE alone to perform similarly to a 1.6GHz G4 with better memory bandwidth.
 

dukebound85

macrumors Core
Jul 17, 2005
19,132
4,110
5045 feet above sea level
jw how come when people talk about putting os x on a pc, everyone is like that's illegal but everyone is ok with it concerning the ps3?

not that it wouldn't be cool because it would but just confused about how people can justify one without the other
 

speakerwizard

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Aug 8, 2006
1,655
0
London
i see nothing wrong with it if your a mac owner / licence owner and doing it for fun, if your build a pc as your your main machine and download (not even buy) the licence (osx) then i think thats wrong. anyhow, cant help ya mdawg but good luck, watchinng with interest but i read mac on linux is more a virtual machine than emulated so should be quite fast, good luck, keep us posted

EDIT:

this could be of interest to people installing on ps3,
http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/25/ps3-running-windows/

may be of help with mac-on-linux also

let me know hoe anyone is getting on with mac on ps3
 
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mdawg4624

macrumors newbie
Apr 6, 2006
5
0
::Update::

Finally got Fedora core 6 on the ps3. Now i'm not a linux person (this isn't my first encounter with the os, but the first in a lonnnng time) so once inside things seemed 'different'. I guess since i'm on a macrumors forum its safe to say 'this experience so far makes me appreciate even more the beauty and simplicity of os x.' In the 15min I played around with it I couldn't find where to automatically or even manually set up my ip addy, subnet, gateway, etc. Now i've heard that Ubuntu is more user friendly, but I have no clue how to get the install dvd to begin under kboot. Any suggestions? Also I did d/l mac on iinux a few minutes ago and plan on 'trying' to install that later today after work. As far as the speed goes of Fedora Core 6 on the ps3, I'd say its average. Its hard to compare though because like i said before I haven't used a linux machine in sometime. So perhaps I'll try to install FC 6 on a spare pc as well just to compare. I'll let you know how it ends up.

P.S.- I d/l darwinppc-801.cdr in hopes of finding a bootloader in there somewhere. If anyone is familiar with this cd image could you please direct me to the single bootloader file so that I can try to see if the ps3 recognizes it as a bootloader. I'm hoping after getting the bootloader to the drives partition I can then attempt to boot up from a OS X cd/dvd. Also(#1), (I don't know if i asked before or not) but is the open firmware thats on ppc macs available to the public? Also (#2), I had this thought: since the hard drive in the ps3 is removable, could I in theory take a ibook's (ppc of course) hard drive that already has os x installed on it, put it into the ps3 and simply boot right up? Then I wouldn't have to worry bout tryin to find stupid bootloader files and such. I could even partition the drive before i do it and load the ps3 os on the second partition. Just a thought. Someone with some knowledge please give me some feedback. Thanks!!
 

grabberslasher

macrumors 6502
Aug 2, 2002
409
1
Éire
P.S.- I d/l darwinppc-801.cdr in hopes of finding a bootloader in there somewhere. If anyone is familiar with this cd image could you please direct me to the single bootloader file so that I can try to see if the ps3 recognizes it as a bootloader.

It's in:

/usr/standalone/ppc/
 

pengan

macrumors newbie
Apr 23, 2024
1
1
Eighteen years after the original post, I finally did this: OS X 10.0 run and IE starts, A KVM-PR (para)virtuallized OSX on PS3 Linux, on 5.8.18-t2 kernel, and redribbon userland.
2024-04-13 16-04-59 的屏幕截图.png

I start from build a customized kernel for RedRibbon Linux, with a 3.x kernel and KVM-PR enabled, but there are some bugs for KVM-PR in kernel code before summer 2016

Then I tried 4.x kernel and there are some problems prevent it boot up from ps3-petitboot-09.11.30-cui.bld

I also tried some 6.x kernel, but they always break my ext4 partition. do fsck check then my root partition broke.

The best usable kernel is 5.8.18-t2 from T2/SDE: https://t2sde.org/ from t2-minimal-glibc-gcc-ppc6432-20.3-4.iso
I compile QEMU 3.1.0 from source, and using the newest pc-bios folder from github repo: https://github.com/qemu/qemu/tree/master/pc-bios

I first tried to boot a pre-installed OSX 10.2 hdd image prepared from my Intel laptop, it boots up but I can't start any apps. Then I tried OSX 10.0 and it works, but take over 10 mins to boot to desktop.
IMG_20240413_122804s.jpg

I also tried Mac-on-Linux follow the instruction here: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/how-to-mac-on-linux-mol-kvm-on-ubuntu-mate-ppc-g5.2034161/
It's much faster than QEMU, but I can't get OSX 10.0 work nither OSX 10.2
And I tried OSX10.1 and it works OK, maybe MOL+10.1 is the most usable case
maconlinux.jpg

Also there are a succesful example to run MacOS 9 on Wii, but I can't make it run on PS3, it seems like OS9 is not compatible with KVM.
In my last try in MOL, it reports error like "ea_to_phys: no translation for 00117000, using 1-1"
os9notwork.png
 
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Ctrlos

macrumors 6502a
Sep 19, 2022
888
1,926
Eighteen years after the original post, I finally did this: OS X 10.0 run and IE starts, A KVM-PR (para)virtuallized OSX on PS3 Linux, on 5.8.18-t2 kernel, and redribbon userland.
View attachment 2371335
I start from build a customized kernel for RedRibbon Linux, with a 3.x kernel and KVM-PR enabled, but there are some bugs for KVM-PR in kernel code before summer 2016

Then I tried 4.x kernel and there are some problems prevent it boot up from ps3-petitboot-09.11.30-cui.bld

I also tried some 6.x kernel, but they always break my ext4 partition. do fsck check then my root partition broke.

The best usable kernel is 5.8.18-t2 from T2/SDE: https://t2sde.org/ from t2-minimal-glibc-gcc-ppc6432-20.3-4.iso
I compile QEMU 3.1.0 from source, and using the newest pc-bios folder from github repo: https://github.com/qemu/qemu/tree/master/pc-bios

I first tried to boot a pre-installed OSX 10.2 hdd image prepared from my Intel laptop, it boots up but I can't start any apps. Then I tried OSX 10.0 and it works, but take over 10 mins to boot to desktop.
View attachment 2371341
I also tried Mac-on-Linux follow the instruction here: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/how-to-mac-on-linux-mol-kvm-on-ubuntu-mate-ppc-g5.2034161/
It's much faster than QEMU, but I can't get OSX 10.0 work nither OSX 10.2
And I tried OSX10.1 and it works OK, maybe MOL+10.1 is the most usable case
View attachment 2371342
Also there are a succesful example to run MacOS 9 on Wii, but I can't make it run on PS3, it seems like OS9 is not compatible with KVM.
In my last try in MOL, it reports error like "ea_to_phys: no translation for 00117000, using 1-1"
View attachment 2371346
You Sir are both a genius and have won the internet for today! Thats an incredible project.
 
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