OWC RAM & Rebate = Money Math

[kylepro88]

So OWC announced RAM for the new Mac Pros. 32GB from them is $449. Here's what I'm curious about. Every RAM option in the new MP fills every slot it has (4) so if you buy the $3999 standard 6-core option you get 16GB with full slots. How much of that $3999 price is the RAM you're buying?

The reason I ask is because OWC only offers $100 in rebate for the original 16GB your machine came with, and you pay $449 for the step up to 32GB as opposed to adding $400 for 32GB from Apple. It seems to me based on the prices to upgrade on Apple's site that the 16GB is about $200 or so of the purchase price, possibly more but I can't be sure.

So you pay $200-300 lets say out of that $4000 machine, you get a rebate of only $100 for it leaving you at $100-200 for RAM you don't have anymore, then pay $449 for the step up to 32GB from OWC. So in buying the 16GB, getting the rebate of $100 for it, and paying $449 for OWC's 32GB you're paying $559-659 for 32GB which is almost identical to Apple's RAM upgrade price.

Am I missing something? Where's the benefit? The only opportunity to save money that I see if you want 32GB is if my numbers are off and the 16GB in the standard machine is only about $200 not $300. In that case you're saving about $100 but that's about it.

Am I crazy? Seems the real savings come in if you want 64GB…then the numbers are much better.

 

[VirtualRain]

You're not missing anything.

The cost of buying 32GB from OWC, is nearly the same out-of-pocket expense as buying the BTO option from Apple, and it's a lot less hassle (to just get it from Apple).

Apple's 32GB is actually around $800 but $300-$400 of that is a sunk cost in the base models 12-16GB which is why you only pay $400-$500 for the upgrade. Thus OWC is giving you about 25% of your money back on the RAM you remove.

So, if you want 32GB, it's probably just best to buy it with the machine... the net to you is the same.

If you want 64GB, then it's better to go with SuperBiiz who's selling 16GB ECC 1833 sticks for $170 ($680 for 4)

 

[kylepro88]

See that's what I thought, I knew something was a miss. The price you're already paying into the machine at purchase far outweighs the rebate you can get for the RAM…so really you don't save much. The only benefit I see is if money is tight and you upgrade in the future after you've already gotten some use out of that 16GB (paying it off via work you do, etc.). Then you've worked off what you'll lose in swapping to OWC right after purchase.

Either way, glad OWC gives folks options! I'm hoping they announce their own version of the flash storage, although I suspect the issue will be the same. Just good for future upgrades down the road.

 

[paulrbeers]

So OWC announced RAM for the new Mac Pros. 32GB from them is $449. Here's what I'm curious about. Every RAM option in the new MP fills every slot it has (4) so if you buy the $3999 standard 6-core option you get 16GB with full slots. How much of that $3999 price is the RAM you're buying?

The reason I ask is because OWC only offers $100 in rebate for the original 16GB your machine came from, and you pay $449 for the step up to 32GB as opposed to adding $400 for 32GB from Apple. It seems to me based on the prices to upgrade on Apple's site that the 16GB is about $200 or so of the purchase price, possibly more but I can't be sure.

So you pay $200-300 lets say out of that $4000 machine, you get a rebate of only $100 for it leaving you at $100-200 for RAM you don't have anymore, then pay $449 for the step up to 32GB from OWC. So in buying the 16GB, getting the rebate of $100 for it, and paying $449 for OWC's 32GB you're paying $559-659 for 32GB which is almost identical to Apple's RAM upgrade price.

Am I missing something? Where's the benefit? The only opportunity to save money that I see if you want 32GB is if my numbers are off and the 16GB in the standard machine is only about $200 not $300. In that case you're saving about $100 but that's about it.

Am I crazy? Seems the real savings come in if you want 64GB…then the numbers are much better.

Well you aren't crazy as the advantage of upgrading using OWC isn't really any better than just buying from Apple to begin with if that is what you are asking, but the way you are doing your math is very suspect....

You can't look at the RAM that comes with the machine has really having any cost. Yes technically it does, but you have to realize that you can't really put a price on it. If you just look at it as "I can't buy a Mac Pro without at least 12GB of RAM", then that initial 12GB of RAM is really only worth what you can get for it on the used market. Now Apple has actually put a value on the additional 4GB of RAM up from the Base Mac Pro and that additional 4GB of RAM you ARE paying $100 for.

So if you upgrade from 12GB of RAM the "real" cost using OWC is $450 - $75 trade in = $375. Which does save you $125 (since upgrading from 12GB to 32GB costs you $500)

If you upgrade from 16GB of RAM then the "real" cost is $100 (your initial 4GB RAM upgrade) + $450 (OWC 32GB cost) - $100 (OWC trade in)= $450. At this point you might as well have paid Apple $400 and SAVED yourself $50.

Again the only advantages are upgrading from 12GB to 32GB or 64GB OR 16GB to 64GB. It will actually cost you MORE to upgrade from 16GB to 32GB at least for now. Inevitably the RAM costs will come down on the open market, but Apple will not lower their RAM costs (at least not for a very long while). At that point it will be cheaper.

 

[kylepro88]

Yea I disagree. The initial 16GB could technically be valued at the rebate, but I think it's more accurate to consider the cost you're paying for it to come with the machine in the first place. Maybe it's apart of a whole…but it's money down the toilet regardless. But whatever, either way yes going from 16G to 32G right now third party doesn't save you any dough…just thought some might want to know that as I'm already seeing folks assuming the opposite.

 

[spaz8]

Hopefully we start seeing more individual chips for sale like at superbiiz. Or matched pairs not sets of 4.

Maybe I'm thick, but I was planning to get just the 12 gb of ram from apple.. Then buy 2x16 gb chips (ideally with a trade in of the old to OWC).. and then maybe in another year or two put in 2 more 16 gb chips.

As long as they are all the same size is there an issue? The quad comes with 3x4gb..

 

[VirtualRain]

Hopefully we start seeing more individual chips for sale like at superbiiz.

Maybe I'm thick, but I was planning to get just the 12 gb of ram from apple.. Then buy 2x16 gb chips (ideally with a trade in of the old to OWC).. and then maybe in another year or two put in 2 more 16 gb chips.

As long as they are all the same size is there an issue?

That's a perfectly sensible approach.

 

[paulrbeers]

Yea I disagree. The initial 16GB could technically be valued at the rebate, but I think it's more accurate to consider the cost you're paying for it to come with the machine in the first place. Maybe it's apart of a whole…but it's money down the toilet regardless. But whatever, either way yes going from 16G to 32G right now third party doesn't save you any dough…just thought some might want to know that as I'm already seeing folks assuming the opposite.

Again, can you buy a Mac Pro without 12GB of RAM? The answer is no. If you buy the upgrade directly from Apple (say to 32 or 64), do you get the 12GB that comes with the Base model as well? No. You just get the end result of 32 or 64. Therefore putting any value on the initial 12GB of RAM is moot because whether you upgrade to OWC or upgrade using Apple, the end result is you do not have the 12GB remaining. True? Therefore there is no value in the 12GB because the ONLY value you have in either scenario is the $75 that OWC gives you in rebate.

Now if you want to try to sell the 12GB of RAM on ebay or some other secondary market for more than $75 then be my guest and you probably would get more for it, but it wouldn't be as simple as just shipping it off to OWC.

 

[propower]

Hopefully we start seeing more individual chips for sale like at superbiiz. Or matched pairs not sets of 4.

Maybe I'm thick, but I was planning to get just the 12 gb of ram from apple.. Then buy 2x16 gb chips (ideally with a trade in of the old to OWC).. and then maybe in another year or two put in 2 more 16 gb chips.

As long as they are all the same size is there an issue? The quad comes with 3x4gb..

Can the nMP run on only two ram??

 

[VirtualRain]

Can the nMP run on only two ram??

Yes. The memory controller will work with 1, 2, 3, or 4 sticks of RAM.

 

[deconstruct60]

and paying $449 for OWC's 32GB you're paying $559-659 for 32GB which is almost identical to Apple's RAM upgrade price.

With Apple's "upgrade" the old ones are gone. With OWC you still have them. Can be used in another machine. Kept for "back-up". Sold. All three options the Apple "solution" doesn't provide for.

If fully intend to dump the Apple RAM it doesn't make sense to by the $3,999 machine ( unless paying for standard config shipping speed in this initial bubble). The lower model bumped to 6 cores and D500 is cheaper if the Apple DIMMs are being dumped.

If you want to bump up to much higher density DIMMs then none of the Apple 4GB DIMMs are long term useful and will have to go. Buying fewer of them will lower costs.

Short term I think OWC is aiming to made money here. they are going to be lower but not radically lower. The few with Apple spec solutions will charge higher prices in this initial 49ers gold rush to the new Mac Pro.

 

[riggles]

Go Crucial

If you're gonna go the 3rd party upgrade root, it might be better to get the 32GB kit from Crucial. The OWC kit is 4x8GB for $450, which uses up all slots. The Crucial kit is $440 and comes as 2x16GB sticks. That leaves you room to upgrade in the future without replacing any RAM sticks.

 

[paulrbeers]

If you're gonna go the 3rd party upgrade root, it might be better to get the 32GB kit from Crucial. The OWC kit is 4x8GB for $450, which uses up all slots. The Crucial kit is $440 and comes as 2x16GB sticks. That leaves you room to upgrade in the future without replacing any RAM sticks.

However, you drop from quad channel memory to only dual. May not have a major impact, but it will have some impact on performance. Just keep that in mind when not using 4 like sticks.

 

[riggles]

However, you drop from quad channel memory to only dual. May not have a major impact, but it will have some impact on performance. Just keep that in mind when not using 4 like sticks.

True, good point. I do wonder what the difference in performance is? Probably depends on the task.

 

[carrerascott]

Choose the Quad and upgrade to the 6-core and you can leave it at 12GB RAM... one fewer chip for $100 less which is what OWC is offering for all 4 chips right? Then just sell the 3 on ebay later, there will be a market for them for people who buy the 12GB and just want to upgrade to 16GB. Even if you just get $25 per 4GB chip, by only getting the 12GB from Apple (for $100 less than the 16GB), you'd be getting $175 for the 4 chips (and I'd think you could get more than $25 per...).

I'm planning to get either the pair of 16s from Crucial, or going for 4 16s right off the bat. RAM is something that always helps with multiple applications running.

 

[paulrbeers]

Choose the Quad and upgrade to the 6-core and you can leave it at 12GB RAM... one fewer chip for $100 less which is what OWC is offering for all 4 chips right? Then just sell the 3 on ebay later, there will be a market for them for people who buy the 12GB and just want to upgrade to 16GB. Even if you just get $25 per 4GB chip, by only getting the 12GB from Apple (for $100 less than the 16GB), you'd be getting $175 for the 4 chips (and I'd think you could get more than $25 per...).

I'm planning to get either the pair of 16s from Crucial, or going for 4 16s right off the bat. RAM is something that always helps with multiple applications running.

That's not accurate though... You aren't saving $175 because the Apple Upgrade to 32GB is $500 vs OWC is $450. That is only a savings of $50 and if you only get $25 a stick that is $125.

 

[carrerascott]

That's not accurate though... You aren't saving $175 because the Apple Upgrade to 32GB is $500 vs OWC is $450. That is only a savings of $50 and if you only get $25 a stick that is $125.

I guess I am planning to do the 64GB upgrade, so it works for me. That's what I meant to write about, but got sidetracked. Yes the 32GB mac upgrade is probably worth it as-is. The 64GB isn't.

So if you are going for 64GB, just buy the 12GB from Apple, it'll save you $100 up front.

 

[spaz8]

That's not accurate though... You aren't saving $175 because the Apple Upgrade to 32GB is $500 vs OWC is $450. That is only a savings of $50 and if you only get $25 a stick that is $125.

As someone else pointed out.. the $500 apple asks for the 32GB (4x8) upgrade is on top of the 150-200$ Apple is billing but included in the price for the 12 or 16 gigs already present. So.. at least $600.. its not like you can set the config to 0 and then add the ram. The $500 is to go from 12(16) to 32.. not 0 to 32. Its on top of additional cost.

 

[arbitrage]

If you plan to buy aftermarket RAM then only spec up the 4-core version otherwise you have wasted $100. The 4-core can be specced up the exact same as the 6-core and there are no price inconsistencies.

If you only want 32GB and would likely never need to go higher in the future then getting the 32GB from Apple isn't a bad idea as it allows everything to be covered under AppleCare and the price differences are not that much. OWC is $449 and they will give you $75 for your 12GB that comes with your nMP. That is $374 and Apple wants $500 to get you to the same place. So you save $126 (may not really be worth the hassle).

Now if you want 64GB right away then going OWC or Crucial or whatever makes a lot of sense as Apple wants $1300 and OWC wants $895 and will give you $75 so total cost is $820. That is a much larger $590 savings and well worth it.

What I am doing is because I think I want to try out 32GB for a while but probably will go up to 64GB later...therefore I also will buy just the 12GB 4-core and upgrade my other specs. I will then purchase 2 16GB sticks from Crucial instead of the 4x8GB from OWC or Apple. Then I can always just buy another 2 sticks in the future to get to 64GB. So I will pay about $440 from Crucial and I'm not sure what I will do with my 3 4GB sticks. I can then pay another $440 in the future or less if prices drop. But I won't be wasting another 4 8GB sticks to get to 64GB and have to pay $895 in the future to buy a whole new 4 16GB sticks.

I'm also hoping that I can use 2 of my 4GB sticks alongside my 2 16GB sticks right from the start but this may end up being incompatible. However, if it works I will be starting at 40GB and that may do me for a long while.

 

[ActionableMango]

BTO options are shipping in two months, whereas stock configs are available today. So I could see doing this if you absolutely need the MP and a lot of RAM pronto. You'd buy the stock model anywhere it's in stock, and then flip the RAM as soon as possible. Obviously this scenario is short term and won't matter when Apple catches up with custom orders.

Other than that, yeah, I don't see the advantage except what's already been mentioned (buying more RAM later because you can't afford it now).

 

[flowrider]

Actually it's less $ here than OWC:

http://www.datamemorysystems.com/ap...7ghz-md878ll/a-cto-late-2013-memory-upgrades/

BTW, I have been using DMS memory since the mid 80s and have never had a stick fail.

Lou

 

[FredT2]

BTO options are shipping in two months, whereas stock configs are available today.

The stock configurations now show the same February shipping as BTO.

 

[pprior]

Can you mix ram sizes? i.e. order base ram, (4x4gb chips) then add 2 x 16GB chips and keep two of the 4gb chips in place for total of 40GB ram and then later upgrade the other 16s to get 64 max when cheaper?

Does not having 4 matching chips make the machine slower or less stable?

 

[td2243]

Wouldn't it make considerably more sense to buy 2 x16 ram instead of 4 x8? So you at least have 2 slots free that can add another 16 later? If I have 4 x 8 and want to move to 64GB, I'd have to replace all four.

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What I am doing is because I think I want to try out 32GB for a while but probably will go up to 64GB later...therefore I also will buy just the 12GB 4-core and upgrade my other specs. I will then purchase 2 16GB sticks from Crucial instead of the 4x8GB from OWC or Apple. Then I can always just buy another 2 sticks in the future to get to 64GB. So I will pay about $440 from Crucial and I'm not sure what I will do with my 3 4GB sticks. I can then pay another $440 in the future or less if prices drop. But I won't be wasting another 4 8GB sticks to get to 64GB and have to pay $895 in the future to buy a whole new 4 16GB sticks.

Exactly what he said. Except I'll sell the 4 x 3 sticks on ebay.

 

[jdblas69]

Can you mix ram sizes? i.e. order base ram, (4x4gb chips) then add 2 x 16GB chips and keep two of the 4gb chips in place for total of 40GB ram and then later upgrade the other 16s to get 64 max when cheaper?

Does not having 4 matching chips make the machine slower or less stable?

I don't think you can do this because 16gb sticks are registered and the 4gb sticks are unbuffered, I don't think you can mix registered and unbuffered??