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People do realize that Apple is about to take over the world?
- Thread starter California
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jhu said:
As if he gave up all the dough? Don't think so. In fact I'm suffering in the market over Gate's ethanol bets. There's nothing courageous or honorable in retiring early and saving taxes on charity if one has a gift for business. Didn't notice him jumping on those supposed third world 100 dollar Linux laptops, if you want to give him third world charity props. I think he just realized his theft of Mac's original os finally pooped out with Vista and Jobs won.
rdowns said:
That's really interesting. In Apple's favor on the retraining/training issue, an 86 year old relative of mine and his 77 year old wife are both sailing away on their new iMac 20" -- the ease of use of Apple is astounding.
But doesn't Windoze nickle and dime you over the years in terms of security and hardware problems? Just a question. Too bad you can't have APple at work. What does M$ say about switching Office licenses?
Mantishead said:Yea but those congestion charges are the reason in 50 years we will be able to breathe without oxygen tanks whilst California will be covered by the Pacific after all your CO2 melted the ice caps.
Not that I have a problem with America, I love it.
And as pointed out, I was in fact talking about the full on M & S food hall, not the ones outside the tube station. Though I am by no means sticking up for the quality of produce we are subjected to in the UK. It sux big time.
Anyway, there was an ealier point about Apple's poor marketing etc. Let's face it, Steve and his team did a pretty good job of dragging Apple back by fixing (starting again) the OS and making some pretty decent hardware -- but it's the IPod that's put them on the map. As Steve said, in the last 12 months 50% of the Macs that have been purchased are PC Switchers.
You can bet your life that this would never have happened had the Ipod and iTunes not pointed out to the world that there was a company called Apple and they made okay stuff...
My Point? The iPod has been the making, or breaking, of Apple depending on your point of view.
I have been using PCs for the last 20 years. Basically because my father had them in his business and would bring one home occaisionally. After five years of graphic design and video editing I have finally decided to make the Switch. Why? Because I am nothing short of blown away by the user experience offered by Max OS X and the capabilities of the new Mac Pro. It has nothing to do with Boot Camp, and frankly anybody who wants to buy a Mac to boot into Vista needs to take a cold shower.
I know -- the iPod. That's what I couldn't get over how amazing Jobs' career has been. Interesting about Vista on a mac, but I haven't been on Windoze since the late 80's.
California said:
well, that's rather cynical of you. i wonder if you noticed the number of lives saved with the malaria and tb treatment programs as well as hiv prevention programs he's supported?
i'll have to agree with what others have been saying about you.
Face It
Let's just face facts. Apple is great. Steve Jobs is great. Max OS X is great. No question. Better software, better hardware... Everyone's a winner.
But love them or hate them. Computing is where it is today because of MS and Bill. Yes the've made some tragic software. Yes they used some devicive business tactics, but the reality is - the use of the web, home computers, digital cameras - they've all enjoyed their exponential growth because of MS.
MS software today is not absolutely terrible. It's just that Apple software is so much better. And Apple don't exactly innovate all the time. I mean oooo virtual desktops in Leopard. Nice, haven't seen those before.
And anybody who thinks the work Bill and Melinda are doing in the 3rd world is a big ol tax break is just plain old cynical.
Let's just face facts. Apple is great. Steve Jobs is great. Max OS X is great. No question. Better software, better hardware... Everyone's a winner.
But love them or hate them. Computing is where it is today because of MS and Bill. Yes the've made some tragic software. Yes they used some devicive business tactics, but the reality is - the use of the web, home computers, digital cameras - they've all enjoyed their exponential growth because of MS.
MS software today is not absolutely terrible. It's just that Apple software is so much better. And Apple don't exactly innovate all the time. I mean oooo virtual desktops in Leopard. Nice, haven't seen those before.
And anybody who thinks the work Bill and Melinda are doing in the 3rd world is a big ol tax break is just plain old cynical.
Mantishead said:
I think you may have that the wrong way around. MS took a while to jump on the web bandwagon at the start, but eventually won the war against netscape.
MS are defintely followers rather than innovators, they have got away with this simply because their software is just about good enough for the job.
I think people should be under no illusions that MS=evil and Apple=good either. Both are out to make as much money as possible for their shareholders. It's just that Apple PR will get them over some of the less than perfect ways they go about things.
That said I don't have access to let alone own a MS based machine (I use Macosx and linux) so Apple are doing something right.
Mantishead said:
Yes, and this is precisely the problem with the industry today. It would be a more diverse place with more choices and better and probably less expensive technology if it weren't for Microsoft and Bill. As far as I'm concerned, they deserve no credit for advancing the industry, which has moved forward despite them and not because of them -- and plenty of blame for retarding it.
Mantishead said:
Uh, NO. Computing is the way it is because of APPLE. They made computers with user interfaces, and mice. Everyone chastized them, and called them stupid for it, but look what everyone is using now (and we won't get into the whole Xerox/Apple/MS BS right now).
And yes, it is just a "big ol' tax break." You think he would have given any money away if he didn't look like a total ass to the entire world for his business practices? The answer: No.
If he was so concerned about technology and fair business practices, there wouldn't be the hatred for MS that there is, and our technologies wouldn't be laden with such downfalls as they are now.
California said:
Anyone with a brain won't jump on those 3rd world 100 dollar laptops. ****, these kids can't even afford to eat decently, and we're going to ask their countries to pay for 100 dollar laptops?
There are much more serious issues out there than these disease ridden, starving children needing laptops of any kind.Gates is a douchebag, but not for this...
Missed Point
I read your comments with interest.
In fact I never once suggested that Microsoft have innovated. But I still maintain that the industry is where it is because of Microsoft.
There's only so much people are prepared to pay for quality. Sure the filthy rich and those with impeccable taste will always choose quality but MS gave the world what the world wants. Easy access to mediocre products. That's why Ford sell more cars in the UK than any other manufacturer. It's not because they make the best cars. It's because the make pretty good cars for pretty good money.
Exclusive, proprietory industry is always better quality than what's fed to the masses. Simply because those with smaller market share need to THINK in order to gain a customer base.
The reason Apple made such damn good products is because they have to claw there way into the marketplace and fight for every user they gain. Does anyone honestly believe that Apple would continue to innovate to the extent they do if they were top dog. Not a chance.
The computer industry, and the Apple cultists, should praise Microsoft - they're the reason Max OS X is as good as it is.
I read your comments with interest.
In fact I never once suggested that Microsoft have innovated. But I still maintain that the industry is where it is because of Microsoft.
There's only so much people are prepared to pay for quality. Sure the filthy rich and those with impeccable taste will always choose quality but MS gave the world what the world wants. Easy access to mediocre products. That's why Ford sell more cars in the UK than any other manufacturer. It's not because they make the best cars. It's because the make pretty good cars for pretty good money.
Exclusive, proprietory industry is always better quality than what's fed to the masses. Simply because those with smaller market share need to THINK in order to gain a customer base.
The reason Apple made such damn good products is because they have to claw there way into the marketplace and fight for every user they gain. Does anyone honestly believe that Apple would continue to innovate to the extent they do if they were top dog. Not a chance.
The computer industry, and the Apple cultists, should praise Microsoft - they're the reason Max OS X is as good as it is.
jhu said:
Uh, I didn't start this thread to open myself up for any sort of personal characterization by any other poster. Please.
I wonder if you noticed the number of wasted manhours on M$ products when people could have been figuring out cures for the world's ills? I wouldn't call that "cynical" -- I'd call that being "practical".
I would have to agree that you don't know me nor do any of the other posters here...
Onizuka said:Anyone with a brain won't jump on those 3rd world 100 dollar laptops. ****, these kids can't even afford to eat decently, and we're going to ask their countries to pay for 100 dollar laptops?
Gates is a douchebag, but not for this...
Again, I just think his rip off of Mac's original OS has finally petered out with Vista and Gates picked up his marbles and went home. THe only kind of charity that really works is the kind that doesn't cost any money -- manhours spent on teaching, training and loving the unloved, underdeveloped and forgotten.
California said:
well, you're judged by your words. take that for what it's worth.
completely irrelevant and can really be applied to anything. imagine the amount of wasted time people spend playing world of warcraft when they could have been figuring out the cures for the world's ills.
none of that will help if they're dead.
I can only take it as WTF are you talking about?jhu said:
Please refrain from any personal intimations. It is against MR rules.
Yeah. Imagine.jhu said:
jhu said:
Wait, so now Gates is saving people from... death?
Take the Gates' genuflection to a M$ site, if there are any.
Dr.Gargoyle said:mud slinging fest...cool
Unintended mudslinging believe me. But I'm Bette Davis on three martinis in the party scene of ALL ABOUT EVE if I need to be...
California said:
Have you given up all your "dough"? Stop being such a hypocrit. I mean he has well earned his money and is one of the biggest givers in the world. Watch him donate his entire fortune away once he dies.
dukebound85 said:
"Watch him donate his entire fortune away once he dies"?
Wow.
Do you honestly believe Bill Gates will have the choice to take his money with him when he dies?
I am sorry, but I am going to have to report your hilarious personal slur to the mods.
You don't know me, I never said I was giving up all my "dough" and it is supposedly a forum discussion on newsworthy topics. Not about me.
Meanwhile, I'll try to wipe from memory the idiocy of your belief that Gates is uber-charitable if he gives all his money away once he dies.
California said:
There was nothing personal about that, you are bashing bill gates and I said I wouldnt be suprised that he will his fortune away. How can you take offense to that?
Moreso how is that a slur when I reference your exact words you directed to Mr Gates and apply them to you about giving all his "dough" aka wealth to good causes.
I am honestly appalled and at a lost of words for both your interpretation and your intolerance to anything that differs from what you believe
I just get frustrated at those who dont recognize the good Mr. Gates has done to the world. Just because he founded microsoft is in no way to be cause to put him down. I mean seriously people
dukebound85 said:
My personal charitable instincts have nothing to do with the conversation, compounded by the fact I never inferred nor stated Gates to be a hypocrite. That particular slander is of your own chosing and it is completely against MR rules.
True charity, as true heroism, has to do with sacrifice. For it to "mean something" to Bill Gates to be truly charitable, he would one, have to be alive whilst giving a noble amount of money and two, it would have to be an act or gift that encroached upon his personal lifestyle in some way.
In other words, look up the parable of the widow's mite. She gave all she had to live on to charity, and she was accounted for giving "more" by Jesus than the true hypocrites, the religious leaders of the day who seemed to give "more" but really were extremely cheap.
It's extremely difficult, (and boring for this MR person), to attempt to gauge Bill Gates' charity -- as well as it has nothing to do whatsoever with Apple or Steve Jobs.
But thinking about it, I guess I would want a twenty five year contract with Gates to promise to support Microsoft for Mac? That would be charitable of him.
California said:
Yes I am well read of the Bible and that story no need to lecture me on that.
As far as my commenting on your charitable instincts then yes I am sorry. I spoke out of frustration due to what I believe was your slander on Mr Gates and that is uncalled for. Me personally, will not criticize those unless I hold myself to the same standards as to that which I am criticizing
I would like to hope that you think it would be charitable for Mr Gates to will his fortune away for the greater good but apparently you dont feel that is charity as he would not have to sacrifice in giving it. Never mind he is donating millions and possibly billions currently
But yes, I do agree with the last thing you said about microsoft support for the mac platform for many years to come