Pictures of SR MBP high CPU temp due to poor thermal paste application (56k ok)

[applehero]

It's about standards, I guess. If I spend $2000+ on something (which comes with a warranty!), I expect proper assembly. Others may expect "good enough." It just irks me that some people believe Apple should be able to get away with this. To each their own.

I bet you're the kind of guy that goes to a restaurant, orders a cheeseburger, and has to send it back a dozen times because the cheese isn't properly centered on the burger, or there isn't an equal amount of condiments...

This is getting boring, if you're so concerned about quality, build your own!

 

[czeluff]

this makes me laugh

I ask them to open it up and look at the thermal paste job. If it looks like it was applied by a zoo monkey on ritalin, I ask for it to be fixed. I then enjoy the MBP running at the temperature I paid for. If it looks like it was applied as per instructions you would see on a third party thermal paste vendor's website, I shrug my shoulders and say "thanks for your time."

It's about standards, I guess. If I spend $2000+ on something (which comes with a warranty!), I expect proper assembly. Others may expect "good enough." It just irks me that some people believe Apple should be able to get away with this. To each their own.

lol you're the type of customer I hated when I worked in retail. This is the ENTIRE computer industry. Hell, we should start petitioning Apple to test EVERY laptop rather than 1 out of every 1000 that leaves the warehouse if we're going to these extremes in quality control.

You pay $2000 because the MBP is the best laptop on the market. 99% of people will never complain about heating issues. A company is not going to cater to the 1% that loves to gripe. That 1% is not worth spending lots more time producing the machines. They'd rather just give you a new notebook (ie. what they do when someone complains).

Other companies that come to mind with the same mentality: most car manufacturers, all pc manufacturers, Western Digital, Seagate, the list goes on and on. It's cheaper and easier to give new free components to the 1%. It's a built-in component the the capitalist market: maximizing your profits.

 

[eenu]

But wouldn't better thermal paste move the temperature to the outside even better, meaning it gets hot outside but not so hot inside?

In theory yes but given the enclosure is only 1" thick not really. Heat is alwas going to transmit well to a thin metal enclosure no matter how good the thermal paste. I think what you really mean is would it not transmit better to the heatsink.

Thermal paste is the interface between the chip and the heatsink. It is merely there to ensure good contact. Then the heat is removed from the heatsink via fans....

There is more than one issue here, i dont think the fans are really programmed correctly. They need to kick in earlier and run faster at higher temps. I've not seen the fans operating at a consistant level. For exapmple.

Last night i ran at 100% load 90C constant with fans at 4500RPM. Today word crashed and CPU went to 100% but before it even reached 60C my fans kicked in at 6000RPM. Hardly a consistant effort.

Chem is right that the paste jobs aint great and that doing a proper personal job will lower your temps a tad. The only issue is that his argument is mute in terms of there is no negative effect to the machine as has been said over and over, though he can't grasp. If you think it is an issue take it to apple. Through personal experiance they will tell you its in spec so good luck.

 

[chem]

This is getting boring, if you're so concerned about quality, build your own!

Heh, I build all my own desktops. Building your own laptop is a bit more tricky. Care to point me towards where I can purchase, in quantity (1) and at a reasonable price, all the components that go into a MBP or Thinkpad? Their case, their logic boards, their screens?

I would prefer to build my own.

 

[eenu]

Heh, I build all my own desktops. Building your own laptop is a bit more tricky. Care to point me towards where I can purchase, in quantity (1) and at a reasonable price, all the components that go into a MBP or Thinkpad? Their case, their logic boards, their screens?

I would prefer to build my own.

Nowhere could supply you because according to you the places these things are made are shoddy and crap. There would be no point you buying the cases since these clearly don't meet your temperature standards and well good luck designing a laptop that is as thin as a macbook with all its components since you think apple engineers do a crap job i'd love to see your effort.

 

[applehero]

I would think there would be a surplus of components available from all the returned units due to heat damage from bad thermal paste jobs, oh wait, they don't exist....

 

[applehero]

Nowhere could supply you because according to you the places these things are made are shoddy and crap. There would be no point you buying the cases since these clearly don't meet your temperature standards and well good luck designing a laptop that is as thin as a macbook with all its components since you think apple engineers do a crap job i'd love to see your effort.

Not to mention how much more it would cost in time, effort, replacement components from doing your own bad thermal paste jobs. Better off taking the chance on the professionals....at least they give you a warranty.

 

[robrose20]

My MBP runs about 50 C when doing normal operations, when I was converting a DVD to MPG (handbrake) file it ran between 72 to 76 degrees, when it was done it quickly dropped. Also I noticed the fan speed goes as high as 4000 rpm, and makes some noise (not that loud, but noticible.).

I have 3 years of applecare, if people complain enough maybe apple will fix the paste issue. Otherwise for most of what I do it seems to run within a reasonable temperature. I do not want to void the warrenty, if I notice it running hotter I will take it back and complain.

Overall I am really impressed with its performance. It is very fast, the display is amazing.

 

[chem]

you think apple engineers do a crap job

I never said this. I am glad we agree that:

Chem is right that the paste jobs aint great and that doing a proper personal job will lower your temps

Anyway,

Not to mention how much more it would cost in time, effort, replacement components from doing your own bad thermal paste jobs.

Applying thermal paste correctly is not rocket science. It just takes a little care. I'd prefer to have that right, instead of cooling a scorching hot MBP CPU with all the hot air blown by a fanboy. I kid, I kid...

 

[chem]

My MBP runs about 50 C when doing normal operations, when I was converting a DVD to MPG (handbrake) file it ran between 72 to 76 degrees, when it was done it quickly dropped. Also I noticed the fan speed goes as high as 4000 rpm, and makes some noise (not that loud, but noticible.).

This report sounds like a properly assembled MBP. Good to hear, and hopefully the norm. It's the discrepancy between reports like this, and reports where MBP CPUs are hitting 90+C, which started this whole investigation.

 

[mmccaskill]

This report sounds like a properly assembled MBP. Good to hear, and hopefully the norm. It's the discrepancy between reports like this, and reports where MBP CPUs are hitting 90+C, which started this whole investigation.

Again, please provide documentation from Apple that specifies what the acceptable and normal ranges are for temperature. Otherwise you are discussing your subjective opinion on the matter, which wastes people's time and possibly confuses other people.

 

[ryan42]

Someone replied to my question in another forum and posted this link.

http://www.arcticsilver.com/arctic_silver_instructions.htm

So it appears that applying a straight line, placing the heat sink, then turning it sink 2 degrees each way is the answer.

Actually go back and click on one of the exposed core links. The C2D in MBPs are exposed core and artic silver recommends just what our OP's link showed for that.

 

[chem]

Again, please provide documentation from Apple that specifies what the acceptable and normal ranges are for temperature.

It should suprise nobody that Apple has specifically not released information that says what should be the CPU core temp under load. If they released that information, many more people would be bringing back their MBPs for repair / replacement, which hurts Apple's bottom line. Corporations hide information which may cost them money.

Fortunately, many users are willing to use their critical thinking skills. If the only difference between two MBP's construction is that one has a good thermal paste job, and the other has a sloppy one, and then you see the only operating difference between the two is a 20C difference in CPU core temp... it stands to reason that the sloppy paste job is making the MBP run hotter than Apple intended.

Unless you think the company whose first engineer was Steve Wozniak, who put out the incredible original Macintosh, whose MacBook Pro blows away its competition in all other areas of design... actually intended to assemble their premier MBP line with sloppy thermal paste jobs, after all the bad press they received for this problem in previous MB/MBPs. That doesn't seem credible to me. It would be the day I stopped buying Apple products.

 

[mmccaskill]

It should suprise nobody that Apple has specifically not released information that says what should be the CPU core temp under load. If they released that information, many more people would be bringing back their MBPs for repair / replacement, which hurts Apple's bottom line. Corporations hide information which may cost them money.

Fortunately, many users are willing to use their critical thinking skills. If the only difference between two MBP's construction is that one has a good thermal paste job, and the other has a sloppy one, and then you see the only operating difference between the two is a 20C difference in CPU core temp... it stands to reason that the sloppy paste job is making the MBP run hotter than Apple intended.

Unless you think the company whose first engineer was Steve Wozniak, who put out the incredible original Macintosh, whose MacBook Pro blows away its competition in all other areas of design... actually intended to assemble their premier MBP line with sloppy thermal paste jobs, after all the bad press they received for this problem in previous MB/MBPs. That doesn't seem credible to me. It would be the day I stopped buying Apple products.

None of which validates anything you have said thus far. You are talking about nothing but your subjective opinion on how you think they intended the machines to run. Nothing more. Unless documentation is provided, nothing else that you say in this matter should be considered by anyone.

 

[chem]

Unless documentation is provided, nothing else that you say in this matter should be considered by anyone.

You're amusing. Any corporation would love to have you as a phone support rep. I suppose that yellow gradient in some SR MBP displays (another defect reported on these forums) is okay with you too. After all, Apple provides no documentation stating that all screens should have the same uniform display of color. heh.

If a can of tennis balls was flat and the balls didn't bounce, would you say the customer had no right to complain because degree of bounce was not a specified behaviour, may vary over time, and at any rate they had no documentation to back them up?

Critical thinking provides consumer protection.

 

[eenu]

It should suprise nobody that Apple has specifically not released information that says what should be the CPU core temp under load. If they released that information, many more people would be bringing back their MBPs for repair / replacement, which hurts Apple's bottom line. Corporations hide information which may cost them money.

No apple have withheld nothing. As Intel states the operating temp for the CPU is anything upto 100C where it auto shutsdown for protection. Damage does not occur until 125C.

That means the Chip can operate anywhere within those boundaries, the costraint that controls this factor is manufacturer design. Taking a desktop box with the MBP components it is going to run cooler than the MBP.

Therefore any manufacturer can run their machins at any temp between 0-99C and be within spec.

Fortunately, many users are willing to use their critical thinking skills. If the only difference between two MBP's construction is that one has a good thermal paste job, and the other has a sloppy one, and then you see the only operating difference between the two is a 20C difference in CPU core temp... it stands to reason that the sloppy paste job is making the MBP run hotter than Apple intended.

As a qualified engineer let me explain manufacturing tolerances to you. When we design equipment everything has a tolerance be it cut panel components or the amount of glue used. This is mainly for one of two reasons, firstly there is bound to be minute variations on tooling and manufacturing. The second is cost cutting. Why would any manufctuerer want to place too much thermal paste on? It costs money thats why manufatuers use machines with measured 'doses' to apply things such as paste and glue. The only variance for apple and other manufactuers is the way the components is placed on top of the paste. I have no doubt that the same paste is being used on all these machines where the variance in temp is down to the mating of the sinks on the chips. With machines being pulled from the production line as well as hundreds of test machines prior to release there is no doubt in my mind that apple knows this is the case and accepts it as a manufacturing tolerance, thus no issue.

actually intended to assemble their premier MBP line with sloppy thermal paste jobs, after all the bad press they received for this problem in previous MB/MBPs. That doesn't seem credible to me. It would be the day I stopped buying Apple products.

Exactly they know about the issue yet the same factory is doing the same thing.....rubbish! Its tolerances and for the number of machines that run hotter there are the same amount that run cooler..... If you don't like it dont buy it.

If your going to not buy apple great..... how about you don't use the forum too since all you have done so far is annoy, abuse, insult and condescend people?

EDIT: In regards to tennis balls. I would expect every ball to have different 'bounce' and for its performance to vary over time. Thanks for that analagy it just backed up everything everyone is trying to say to you.

 

[chem]

No apple have withheld nothing. As Intel states...

Apple hasn't said anything. Their engineers knew what they were doing when they designed the MBP - they had target temps. The information is not released; the assembly quality control is allowed to slip.

As a qualified engineer let me explain manufacturing tolerances to you.

Yawn. You already admitted "Chem is right that the paste jobs aint great and that doing a proper personal job will lower your temps" and you totally ignored my analogy to the yellow gradient defect in the LCD displays. I suppose those are just within tolerances too. You must have some wide ranging tolerances, to allow for a 20C difference under load (between two otherwise identical MBPs).

EDIT: In regards to tennis balls. I would expect every ball to have different 'bounce' and for its performance to vary over time. Thanks for that analagy it just backed up everything everyone is trying to say to you.

This is an especially amusing reply, considering what players expect from a fresh can of tennis balls. Penn's advertising slogan for years was "Penn: you've seen one, you've seen them all."

 

[applehero]

No documentation to back up your alleged issue, then you have nothing more than an opinion. We've all heard it, and heard it, and heard it, and heard it...nobody is jumping on your bandwagon.

Good day!

 

[eenu]

Yawn. You already admitted "Chem is right that the paste jobs aint great and that doing a proper personal job will lower your temps" and you totally ignored my analogy to the yellow gradient defect in the LCD displays. I suppose those are just within tolerances too. You must have some wide ranging tolerances, to allow for a 20C difference under load.

Yes its not great but its the same amount per machine.

20C so what? Its still within spec.

I guess your LCD analagy was another post post edit you snuck in there..... and if your referring to the screens having the bottom 1/3 discolured then no that is a blatant fault.

This is an especially amusing reply, considering what players expect from a fresh can of tennis balls. Penn's advertising slogan for years was "Penn: you've seen one, you've seen them all."

Ah, to take pride in engineering...

I'm glad it amuses you - you seem to take things very literally though for a kid thats normally the case.... you are a kid right? Sorry if i have presumed its just everything you have shown on this forum shows you to be a 14 yr old troll who is bored in their summer holiday.

Not that you deserve a response on this, but, my point is even tennis balls will have bounce tolerancs and no two are the same. Some will bounce more than others converseley some MBP will run hotter than others except applying a heatsink on top of thermal paste is far more variable than making a tennis bal in a fixed process.

 

[mmccaskill]

Apple hasn't said anything. Their engineers knew what they were doing when they designed the MBP - they had target temps. The information is not released; the assembly quality control is allowed to slip.

Read your quote that I bolded and resized for you. This shoots down your entire argument. Since nothing is released it is pure speculation on your part. Now, does that mean you are wrong? Maybe not. But that is irrelevant at the moment.

 

[aquajet]

Just thought I'd post this for fun...

MBP 2.0ghz Core Duo

 

[eenu]

Just thought I'd post this for fun...

WOW 102C!!! Good going..... well since its meant to shut down at 100C you either have something wrong there or istat is not accurate

 

[chem]

This is simply the same old problem, coming back. It got some press last year:

http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/mac/2006/05/23/thermal-paste-question.html
http://www.engadget.com/2006/05/01/macbook-pros-overheating-due-to-thermal-grease/
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/199840/
http://www.macgeekery.com/hacks/hardware/the_definitive_macbook_pro_thermal_roundup
http://www.appledefects.com/wiki/index.php?title=MacBook_Pro#Improperly_applied_thermal_grease

How are those issues different than the 90+C temps reported in this thread? Or do the Apple defenders think those past complaints had no merit?

EDIT: dang, Aquajet, 102C? That's a new high. His fans were running faster than the standard 2000 rpm too, so can't blame it on fans not revving up.

 

[synth3tik]

So just dont be an idiot when you disassemble the thing. Kind of like my friend who wanted a new ipod and put his in the microwave while playing mp3's.

you smacked your friend after you told them you would ridicule them for at least 5 years, right?

 

[jsw]

I grow weary of the many post reports for this thread, and it seems unikely anyone in here is going to have their minds changed.

Please move on to other topics.