Post-Migration question re: User Accounts

[ChromeCrescendo]

OP wrote:
"After doing some digging, I decided to create a user account on the new Mac so I could turn WiFi off
I then initiated the Migration and everything worked smoothly"

Heh. That was your first mistake. Things only looked like they "went smoothly" -- until you discovered that they didn't.

I'll tell you how to get this all corrected so the Mac is "like new" and the migration does go smoothly.
But as they say, "you can lead a horse to water..."

Let's get started.

DANGER! DANGER! WARNING! WARNING!
What you're going to do next is going to WIPE OUT any user data on the NEW Mac...!!!

First thing (on the NEW Mac):
Get booted into any administrative account that will get you to the finder.
Now, open System Settings.
In the search box (upper left corner), type "erase all content".
Below you should see "Erase all contents and settings".
Click on that.

Over on the right, you'll now see "erase all content and settings".
It's a button, so click it.
Enter your administrative password, and then follow the instructions.
It's VERY simple, and it goes QUICKLY.

When done, the new Mac will be back to "moment zero" -- the moment you first took it out of the box, set it down, and powered it up.

LET IT BE... FOR NOW.
We have stuff to do on the other (OLD) Mac.

You'll need a BACKUP DRIVE.
Ethernet or thunderbolt won't do.
You need a PHYSICAL drive.

If it's a time machine backup, that may work ok. You have to try it.
I RECOMMEND that you create a CLONED backup using either CarbonCopyCloner or SuperDuper.
SuperDuper is easiest -- VERY easy to understand for a first time user. And, it's FREE to use for what we're going to do.
You can download it here by clicking this link:

https://shirt-pocket.com/mint/pepper/orderedlist/downloads/download.php?file=https%3A//shirt-pocket.com/downloads/SuperDuper%21.dmg

Just use either CCC or SC to create the cloned backup. It doesn't have to be "bootable" any more.
But the advantage of a "clone" is that it will mount on the desktop and look the same as any other drive.

Once you have your backup drive ready...
Connect it to the NEW Mac. (that's still sitting there, brand new again, ready to set up).

Start "clicking through".
DO NOT CREATE A NEW ACCOUNT.
Doing that is what got you off the rails in the first place.

When setup assistant asks if you wish to migrate from another drive, yes, so point the way to the backup drive.
Setup assistant will take a little time to "digest" everything, and then present you with a list of stuff that can be migrated.

I don't think you told us what the old Mac is, but if it's an Intel, you might consider UN-CHECKING the option to migrate applications.
You can re-install the ones you want later.
If you create a CLONED backup, you might even "test run" the apps from the backup disk to see if they'll work BEFORE you put them on the new Mac.

This is up to you.
But I do recommend that you still migrate everything else.

Turn SA loose and let it do the migration from the backup drive. It will take a little while (depends on how much "stuff" you have).

When done, you should see your login screen, as before.
So... log in and look around.

If you read this far, I suggest you print this reply out and check it off as you go along.

Good luck.

There shouldn't be any quotation marks. Basically when you're in Recovery mode in Terminal you do cd /Volumes then cd Macintosh HD then cd Users once there type ls and hit enter you'll see the studio folder listed go ahead and delete it rm -rf dskstudio
The problem some people are facing is when files are in the trash. If it happens to you, you could temporarily disable the System Protection Utility by typing csrutil disable, reboot the mac in recovery go to Users folder and do rm -rf dskstudio then reenable the system protection by typing csrutil enable you can verify the status by typing csrutil status.

I was just on the phone with Apple Tech Support and we went through Recovery Mode into endless Terminal commands to find out what was happening -apparently, there were hidden files from an audio plugin I used to use in Logic Pro, which I deleted prior to migrating from my Mac Studio M2 Ultra

We then deleted those from iCloud Drive but, some remained and we could not delete them from inside the Users after exposing the hidden folders - the Mac kept giving us an error stating it was waiting for those files to be "downloaded" - so, after about an hour of trying to fix this with tech support, I am left with the option of just leaving everything alone (despite the fact it is going to eat away at my brain knowing this problem cannot be solved), or, do an entirely complete clean reinstall of everything

The audio plugin company is Two Notes Engineering and the Plug-in is named Genome

 

[chown33]

I suggest using some Terminal commands to give us a more detailed look. There are attributes that can prevent removal of even empty folders.

This will list the contents of "/Users" along with the extra attributes of each item.

ls -leO@ /Users

Please post a screenshot of the complete output.

If the problematic folder has suitable permissions, you can give it the 'hidden' flag, and at least then it won't be visible to the GUI. It may also be possible to move it somewhere out of view.

 

[AlixSPQR]

There shouldn't be any quotation marks. Basically when you're in Recovery mode in Terminal you do cd /Volumes then cd Macintosh HD then cd Users once there type ls and hit enter you'll see the studio folder listed go ahead and delete it rm -rf dskstudio
The problem some people are facing is when files are in the trash. If it happens to you, you could temporarily disable the System Protection Utility by typing csrutil disable, reboot the mac in recovery go to Users folder and do rm -rf dskstudio then reenable the system protection by typing csrutil enable you can verify the status by typing csrutil status.

I wonder if Si Macs work the same as Intel ones?

 

[ChromeCrescendo]

OP wrote:
"After doing some digging, I decided to create a user account on the new Mac so I could turn WiFi off
I then initiated the Migration and everything worked smoothly"

Heh. That was your first mistake. Things only looked like they "went smoothly" -- until you discovered that they didn't.

I'll tell you how to get this all corrected so the Mac is "like new" and the migration does go smoothly.
But as they say, "you can lead a horse to water..."

Let's get started.

DANGER! DANGER! WARNING! WARNING!
What you're going to do next is going to WIPE OUT any user data on the NEW Mac...!!!

First thing (on the NEW Mac):
Get booted into any administrative account that will get you to the finder.
Now, open System Settings.
In the search box (upper left corner), type "erase all content".
Below you should see "Erase all contents and settings".
Click on that.

Over on the right, you'll now see "erase all content and settings".
It's a button, so click it.
Enter your administrative password, and then follow the instructions.
It's VERY simple, and it goes QUICKLY.

When done, the new Mac will be back to "moment zero" -- the moment you first took it out of the box, set it down, and powered it up.

LET IT BE... FOR NOW.
We have stuff to do on the other (OLD) Mac.

You'll need a BACKUP DRIVE.
Ethernet or thunderbolt won't do.
You need a PHYSICAL drive.

If it's a time machine backup, that may work ok. You have to try it.
I RECOMMEND that you create a CLONED backup using either CarbonCopyCloner or SuperDuper.
SuperDuper is easiest -- VERY easy to understand for a first time user. And, it's FREE to use for what we're going to do.
You can download it here by clicking this link:

https://shirt-pocket.com/mint/pepper/orderedlist/downloads/download.php?file=https%3A//shirt-pocket.com/downloads/SuperDuper%21.dmg

Just use either CCC or SC to create the cloned backup. It doesn't have to be "bootable" any more.
But the advantage of a "clone" is that it will mount on the desktop and look the same as any other drive.

Once you have your backup drive ready...
Connect it to the NEW Mac. (that's still sitting there, brand new again, ready to set up).

Start "clicking through".
DO NOT CREATE A NEW ACCOUNT.
Doing that is what got you off the rails in the first place.

When setup assistant asks if you wish to migrate from another drive, yes, so point the way to the backup drive.
Setup assistant will take a little time to "digest" everything, and then present you with a list of stuff that can be migrated.

I don't think you told us what the old Mac is, but if it's an Intel, you might consider UN-CHECKING the option to migrate applications.
You can re-install the ones you want later.
If you create a CLONED backup, you might even "test run" the apps from the backup disk to see if they'll work BEFORE you put them on the new Mac.

This is up to you.
But I do recommend that you still migrate everything else.

Turn SA loose and let it do the migration from the backup drive. It will take a little while (depends on how much "stuff" you have).

When done, you should see your login screen, as before.
So... log in and look around.

If you read this far, I suggest you print this reply out and check it off as you go along.

Good luck.

The old Mac is gone, sold, no longer in my possession

I could reset the new Mac but then I would have to download all my Apps and software all over again

 

[Weaselboy]

After doing some digging, I decided to create a user account on the new Mac so I could turn WiFi off

I then initiated the Migration and everything worked smoothly

https://tommyang.github.io/pondini.org/OSX/MigrationProblems.html

Read the pink section of this old article. I believe it describes how you got sideways here.

When you create the first account on a Mac, it is assingned userID 501, the second account 502 and so on.

So what you did was create a fresh account 501, then you used the migration tool to import the old account from the other Mac that was presumably the first account on that Mac, so also userID 501. This causes all sorts of permissions issues as described in the article I linked.

Don't try any of the tips on the article to fix this, since the article refers to pretty old macOS versions.

Do you have maybe a Time Machine or some other external disk backup we could use to start over?

 

[ChromeCrescendo]

I suggest using some Terminal commands to give us a more detailed look. There are attributes that can prevent removal of even empty folders.

This will list the contents of "/Users" along with the extra attributes of each item.

ls -leO@ /Users

Please post a screenshot of the complete output.

If the problematic folder has suitable permissions, you can give it the 'hidden' flag, and at least then it won't be visible to the GUI. It may also be possible to move it somewhere out of view.

We went through terminal for 40 minutes and looked everywhere and found the hidden files that were preventing the "dskstudio" folder from being deleted but, we could not delete those files because an error kept popping up stating they needed to be "downloaded" but, there was nothing in the files

I think my choice is to ignore it (since it isn't really affecting anything other than my sanity lol) or wipe the new Mac and install everything that I migrated as a clean install

 

[ChromeCrescendo]

https://tommyang.github.io/pondini.org/OSX/MigrationProblems.html

Read the pink section of this old article. I believe it describes how you got sideways here.

When you create the first account on a Mac, it is assingned userID 501, the second account 502 and so on.

So what you did was create a fresh account 501, then you used the migration tool to import the old account from the other Mac that was presumably the first account on that Mac, so also userID 501. This causes all sorts of permissions issues as described in the article I linked.

Don't try any of the tips on the article to fix this, since the article refers to pretty old macOS versions.

Do you have maybe a Time Machine or some other external disk backup we could use to start over?

I only started using Time Machine after I migrated to the new Mac and the "dskstudio" folder is on the Time Machine backups

 

[Weaselboy]

I only started using Time Machine after I migrated to the new Mac and the "dskstudio" folder is on the Time Machine backups

Erase your Mac and reset it to factory settings - Apple Support

Use Erase All Content and Settings to quickly and securely erase all of your settings, data, and apps, while maintaining the operating system currently installed.

support.apple.com

Here is an idea. Make a current Time Machine backup on an external disk.

Then following the instructions at the link above erase and reset all settings. That will get you back to fresh out of the box with just the OS on there.

Then during setup do the import assistant routine using the TM disk as the source.



You will get to a screen similar to this where both your user accounts will be listed. Check the box for dsk and uncheck the box for dskstudio. That should import only the dsk account and nothing else.

 

[ChromeCrescendo]

Erase your Mac and reset it to factory settings - Apple Support

Use Erase All Content and Settings to quickly and securely erase all of your settings, data, and apps, while maintaining the operating system currently installed.

support.apple.com

Here is an idea. Make a current Time Machine backup on an external disk.

Then following the instructions at the link above erase and reset all settings. That will get you back to fresh out of the box with just the OS on there.

Then during setup do the import assistant routine using the TM disk as the source.

View attachment 2511565

You will get to a screen similar to this where both your user accounts will be listed. Check the box for dsk and uncheck the box for dskstudio. That should import only the dsk account and nothing else.

Thanks but, the thing is, "dskstudio" is not listed in Users & Groups - I cannot login as "dskstudio" on my Mac

Is there a way I can exclude "Macintosh HD>Users>dskstudio" from Time Machine backups?

 

[chown33]

We went through terminal for 40 minutes and looked everywhere and found the hidden files that were preventing the "dskstudio" folder from being deleted but, we could not delete those files because an error kept popping up stating they needed to be "downloaded" but, there was nothing in the files

Understood. It may still be possible to hide or move the 'dskstudio' folder. Seeing the attributes would likely show if those are possible.

 

[Weaselboy]

Thanks but, the thing is, "dskstudio" is not listed in Users & Groups - I cannot login as "dskstudio" on my Mac

Is there a way I can exclude "Macintosh HD>Users>dskstudio" from Time Machine backups?

You can try going to TM setting and adding the dskstudio folder to excluded under options.

However, doing what I suggested and erase and importing without checking that dskstudio account should have the same effect.

 

[ChromeCrescendo]

Understood. It may still be possible to hide or move the 'dskstudio' folder. Seeing the attributes would likely show if those are possible.

OK but hiding it will not scratch my brain itch LOL

Here is the screenshot:

 

[ChromeCrescendo]

You can try going to TM setting and adding the dskstudio folder to excluded under options.

However, doing what I suggested and erase and importing without checking that dskstudio account should have the same effect.

OK but, like I said, there is no "dskstudio" user in Users & Groups

 

[Mike Boreham]

So what you did was create a fresh account 501, then you used the migration tool to import the old account from the other Mac that was presumably the first account on that Mac, so also userID 501. This causes all sorts of permissions issues as described in the article I linked.

That is a very old article and things have changed since then. If the two accounts are the same name, Migration Assistant will nowadays detect this and ask what it should do, ‘overwrite’ or ‘keep both’? If ‘overwrite’ is chosen the migrated account will be 501, if ‘keep both’ then it will be 502.
If the two accounts names are different then the migrated account will be 502.
In either of these cases if the migrated account is 502 there may be permissions problems with files on externals created previously by a 501 user as the old James Pond article says.
I agree with your advice earlier to avoid all possible problems with UUID 501/502 and use Setup Assistant whenever possible, but Migration Assistant should work and usually does for most people.

 

[Weaselboy]

Go to TM settings and click the + at the bottom left then from my top screenshot add the dskstudio account.

I think you are making this harder than it needs to be. Just erase and don't import dskstudio when you migrate should get you where you want to be.

 

[Weaselboy]

That is a very old article and things have changed since then.

I get the article is old, but I have yet to see a better explanation of the problem. I don't think it is fixed, because even on current macOS versions I see this issue with users on almost a monthly basis.

 

[ChromeCrescendo]

View attachment 2511572View attachment 2511571

Go to TM settings and click the + at the bottom left then from my top screenshot add the dskstudio account.

I think you are making this harder than it needs to be. Just erase and don't import dskstudio when you migrate should get you where you want to be.

I am not trying to be obtuse - it's just that there is no way to log in as "dskstudio" so I am not sure if the option would be available to exclude "dskstudio" would be there when restoring

What I have done is excluded Macintosh HD>Users>dskstudio from Time Machine backups and running a TM backup now and then will attempt to restore

Thank you

 

[Weaselboy]

so I am not sure if the option would be available to exclude "dskstudio" would be there when restoring

You can test it right now by launching Migration Assistant app and point it to the TM disk to see what accounts are listed for import. Then just command-q to quit your way back out of there.

 

[Mike Boreham]

I get the article is old, but I have yet to see a better explanation of the problem. I don't think it is fixed, because even on current macOS versions I see this issue with users on almost a monthly basis.

Agreed, it is still a problem if the names are different. The reason people create a user straightaway without migrating, is to check out the machine before loading it…which is reasonable, but much better (as you said) is then to uses Erase all Content and Settings to put machine back to factory settings and migrate in from old machine.

But if the user is aware of these issues and creates the initial temporary user with the same name as the account they are going to migrate, then the problem is avoided, since Migration Assistant acquired the override option a few years ago.

 

[Weaselboy]

But if the user is aware of these issues and creates the initial temporary user with the same name as the account they are going to migrate, then the problem is avoided, since Migration Assistant acquired the override option a few years ago.

I think you are correct this is where people are getting crossed up.

Part of this is logic would seem to tell you to make a test account with a different name to avoid problems, but that does not seem to be the case.

 

[Fishrrman]

I could fix that messed up Mac.

OP:
I put up a long post on the previous page of replies.

I think some of that could still work for you, if you follow this advice:
1. Get an external drive.
2. Use either SuperDuper or CarbonCopyCloner to CLONE the contents of your new Mac (even though you're having problems with it) to the drive. DO NOT USE time machine for this job.
3. Now you have a backup of your PERSONAL data., even if -some of it- is flawed.
4. Next, do the "erase all content and settings" reset as I mentioned in my previous reply.
5. If you have a "problem account" on the current setup, DON'T use setup assistant to migrate your data, because it could "migrate the problems", also.
6. INSTEAD, do a "manual migration" of your personal data. This may not get quite everything, but if done carefully, it could get most of it.

THERE ARE WAYS TO AVOID PERMISSIONS PROBLEMS when doing a manual migration (shouting was intentional). ASK FIRST.

With a cloned backup that is mountable in the finder, now you can "fill up" your "empty" (new) account by manually copying over selected items (folders and files) from the cloned backup. For example, you could migrate everything in your documents folder. IMPORTANT: you don't copy the entire folder, that won't work. Instead, you OPEN the documents folder, and then copy some or all of what's inside it. Probably small amounts at a time will work better. KEEP HANDWRITTEN NOTES.

This works with other folders such as pictures, music, movies, etc.

As for applications, some may be "copy-able" from the cloned backup.
Others may need a re-install.

It's more work to do a manual migration than it is to use Apple's automated assistants, but you burned those bridges behind you when you sold the old Mac and didn't keep a backup on a physical drive.

But... in the end... it will "put things right" and get you back to working order.

 

[chown33]

OK but hiding it will not scratch my brain itch LOL

Here is the screenshot:

View attachment 2511567

I can tell from the screenshot that there isn't an account name for the userid 502. If there were an account name, that would show instead of the raw userid 502. This confirms that any attempts to use 'dskstudio' as a user name will fail.

Some other things I can tell:
1. I don't see any special flags on the folder that would prevent hiding it, so if your backup/wipe/restore sequence doesn't work, hiding it appears to be an option. This would hide it from the GUI, but it would still be visible in 'ls' output.

2. The com.apple.macl attribute is apparently some kind of SIP or sandbox access-control list. It's not documented by apple, so any info about it has to be reverse engineered. Here's some info I found using search terms: com.apple.macl xattr:

Quarantine, SIP, and MACL: macOS per-file security controls

The behaviour of quarantine flags, SIP flags, and the mysterious new com.apple.macl attribute, which never ceases to puzzle.

eclecticlight.co

How macOS now tracks the provenance of apps

Which extended attributes are attached to downloaded archives and apps? How do they fit in with provenance tracking?

eclecticlight.co

Michael Tsai - Blog - Persistent File Access via com.apple.macl Xattr

 

[Mike Boreham]

I think you are correct this is where people are getting crossed up.

Part of this is logic would seem to tell you to make a test account with a different name to avoid problems, but that does not seem to be the case.

No! different name would be wrong thing to do. If they do that when they use MA to bring in their proper user account it will have UID 502. If they use the same name for their test account as their proper account, they will be asked if they want to overwrite existing account with same name, reply yes, and the proper account will have UID 501.

 

[ChromeCrescendo]

Agreed, it is still a problem if the names are different. The reason people create a user straightaway without migrating, is to check out the machine before loading it…which is reasonable, but much better (as you said) is then to uses Erase all Content and Settings to put machine back to factory settings and migrate in from old machine.

But if the user is aware of these issues and creates the initial temporary user with the same name as the account they are going to migrate, then the problem is avoided, since Migration Assistant acquired the override option a few years ago.

I created a new user before migration because Apple Migration Assistant was only using WiFi to migrate rather than the TB cable and I had to do something to turn the WiFI off on the new Mac

 

[ChromeCrescendo]

I could fix that messed up Mac.

OP:
I put up a long post on the previous page of replies.

I think some of that could still work for you, if you follow this advice:
1. Get an external drive.
2. Use either SuperDuper or CarbonCopyCloner to CLONE the contents of your new Mac (even though you're having problems with it) to the drive. DO NOT USE time machine for this job.
3. Now you have a backup of your PERSONAL data., even if -some of it- is flawed.
4. Next, do the "erase all content and settings" reset as I mentioned in my previous reply.
5. If you have a "problem account" on the current setup, DON'T use setup assistant to migrate your data, because it could "migrate the problems", also.
6. INSTEAD, do a "manual migration" of your personal data. This may not get quite everything, but if done carefully, it could get most of it.

THERE ARE WAYS TO AVOID PERMISSIONS PROBLEMS when doing a manual migration (shouting was intentional). ASK FIRST.

With a cloned backup that is mountable in the finder, now you can "fill up" your "empty" (new) account by manually copying over selected items (folders and files) from the cloned backup. For example, you could migrate everything in your documents folder. IMPORTANT: you don't copy the entire folder, that won't work. Instead, you OPEN the documents folder, and then copy some or all of what's inside it. Probably small amounts at a time will work better. KEEP HANDWRITTEN NOTES.

This works with other folders such as pictures, music, movies, etc.

As for applications, some may be "copy-able" from the cloned backup.
Others may need a re-install.

It's more work to do a manual migration than it is to use Apple's automated assistants, but you burned those bridges behind you when you sold the old Mac and didn't keep a backup on a physical drive.

But... in the end... it will "put things right" and get you back to working order.

If I am making a Time Machine backup and excluding the Macintosh HD>Users>dskstudio path therefrom, would I not just erase/reset the Mac and restore from the new Time Machine backup that excludes that path?