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Mr. Dee

macrumors 603
Original poster
Dec 4, 2003
5,990
12,840
Jamaica
I have to admit, this something I have been looking forward to comparing. Although they are not technically equals since the Wallstreet predates OS 10.0 by a few years, its a G3 that's a supported model. But when some of us complain about the constant progress of innovation, we have a lot to be thankful for. I thought the PB was a relatively small but weighty device, but this thing is brick/tank next to the M1 MacBook. One thing I have to say though, I am not sure how well Big Sur's look will hold up over the next 20 years. Minus the overuse of pinstripes, 10.0, still looks good to this day, and that cool relaxing Aqua wallpaper is just timeless.

tempImageEPw1It.png


Its just amazing to think, these are two 13 inch devices, 23 years apart. Moving between the keyboards can be a bit jarring, the PB's keyboard is actually nicer to use. Keys feel like you are typing on pillows, while the M1 is more akin to typing on a scientific calculator. Its definitely improved since the first time I tested it in 2016 at the store, but it just cannot compare to the right balance of my 2015 MBP.

tempImage73legE.png


But, with those minor trade offs, 23 years of refinements offer huge benefits:

  • Fast boot up - this 512 GBs SSD flies, compared to the old creaky 20 GB mechanical disk in the PB. Although I haven't been pressed for space on my devices over the years, its gonna be a challenge filling this up.
  • RAM - The PB has 160 MBs, which I think back in 2000 was absurdly a lot. 10.0 flies on it; Finder windows pop open but it sure can't help the lack of optimization in some apps. An app like Mail 1.0 takes 8 bounces to open, versus a single launch for Mail 14.0 on Big Sur.
  • Displays - hands down the Retina is a reminder of how grateful I am. Although the 1024 by 768 does well on the PB with the help of 10.0s anti-aliasing, for the time that would have been considered much improved experience. The sharpness and fine details of icons transparency; some of which OS 10.0 had is just superb on the M1.
  • Battery life - on the PB, its dead, anytime I shut this down, requires resetting the date and time. But, even with the battery working, the M1 with its 20 hour battery life is insanely great. This puts it on par with my other Apple devices like the iPhone and iPad.
  • Speed - Obviously no comparison, M1 is just super duper fast. System doesn't warm and I can have many apps and browser tabs open with worry.
  • Everyday usage - I just got the M1 yesterday, but I've elected to not install any third party apps. That for me is intentional because unlike the PB 20 years ago, I would have still needed to keep Classic around to do some of really basic things like word processing or watch DVDs. Pretty much everything you need to use this computer already is included. I was even gonna install Chrome because its native and I've been using more often on my older Mac, but I decided to skip. I'm not even gonna install Microsoft Office. Pages does what I need and I plan on weaning myself off products that require spending more money.
  • Reliability - OS X's UNIX heritage has always been shining advantage: pre-emptive multi-tasking, memory protection lead to less system instability, especially with bad behaving apps. On the M1 that of course continues and with Apples deep integration with their SoC, its even more significant. I can't even begin to explain it, but even operations like booting into recovery is a world difference. I always found OS X's recovery options confusing, even though they might be better than Windows or Linux. Just the ability to hold down the Touch ID power button versus the scientific laundry list of holding C after boot chime voodoo is appreciated. Although, I rarely ever need to go into recovery these days, its just a reminder of the finer details.
But, its such striking experience where all the pieces are in place on day one for the M1. It took until about Panther and eventually the transition to Intel for the Mac to feel like a truly mainstream platform and alternative to Windows. In 2020, this feels like mature product that naturally integrates with the rest of my digital life. While writing this, a perfect example of that popped up again. When I setup the M1 yesterday evening, I elected to sign in with my iCloud account. most of what I needed was just there when I logged in: my passwords, favorites all there. I call just popped up and I had the option of taking it right there on the Mac. Thats just so amazing! Say what you will about the Touch Bar, its a nice addition, outside of getting use to the volume option, its fine.

tempImage3NPBQo.png



I can't imagine what's in store for the next 20 years, much less next week. But when you do comparisons like this, you really get to see the big picture. Of course, no one in their right mind would be using a PB with OS 10.0 up to now, but again, its about the refinements and appreciating that. This is certainly not my last Mac and I will likely be taking out the CC in 2023 for a iMac then another MacBook in 2023.

Certainly, Apple has delivered a successful integrated package with the M1 and really delivers and end to end seamless experience throughout its wider ecosystem of products.
 

LonestarOne

macrumors 65816
Sep 13, 2019
1,074
1,426
McKinney, TX
  • Everyday usage - I just got the M1 yesterday, but I've elected to not install any third party apps. That for me is intentional because unlike the PB 20 years ago, I would have still needed to keep Classic around to do some of really basic things like word processing or watch DVDs. Pretty much everything you need to use this computer already is included. I was even gonna install Chrome because its native and I've been using more often on my older Mac, but I decided to skip. I'm not even gonna install Microsoft Office. Pages does what I need and I plan on weaning myself off products that require spending more money.

I was at Microsoft in the era just before people started to see Apple as a serious competitor. There was one PM, who I interacted with occasionally, whose job was to change that perception. I remember the day he came to the Visual Studio to give a presentation. He did short demos of the Macintosh operating system, the iLife and iWork applications, as well as XCode. He spent quite a bit of time on the latter, because of the audience. Because I was a Macintosh user, there wasn’t much that was new to me — I spent more time watching the reaction of the audience. Everyone seemed to be quietly impressed but not blown away or frightened by what they saw. Until, suddenly, I saw the expression on the face of one developer change, as if a lightbulb had just come on inside his head, and he slowly raised his hand and said, “Wait minute. Are you telling us that Apple bundles all this software with their computers for free?”

That was the moment when people in our group started to take Apple seriously.

(Not everyone at Microsoft got the message, of course, especially at the top level. I remember people cringing when Steve Ballmer stood up a conference and proclaimed that it was “Impossible! Impossible! Impossible!” for the iPhone to get any significant market share.
 
Last edited:

Mr. Dee

macrumors 603
Original poster
Dec 4, 2003
5,990
12,840
Jamaica
I remember somewhere around the iLife debut 2003/2004, there was leaked news about a bit of impasse among company leadership about how Windows was being marketed at the time. I believe it was Jim Allchin who was head of Windows development was impressed with Apples bundle strategy, but also the PC setup experience vs Mac. This was I believe during the nightmare period when OEMs were filling PCs with crappy apps that would slow down a PC out of the box. Jim was frustrated with why Apple was getting this right, but Windows was delivering a similar experience for users. I'm paraphrasing a lot of this of course.

When I first saw OS X on 'The Screen Savers' in March 2001, I was shocked a computer operating system could look that pretty. I was using Windows 98 SE at the time. But, that's what got me hooked, of course, being a poor student with no money, I could only view screenshots of OS X and read Macworld. On top of the entrenched nature of Windows at the time and eventually Windows XP's market dominance. My first OS X machine wasn't until the hacked OS X Tiger x86 which I installed on my custom built AMD Sempron dual booting with Windows XP Pro x64 and Windows Vista betas.

Just found the article:

 

LonestarOne

macrumors 65816
Sep 13, 2019
1,074
1,426
McKinney, TX
I remember somewhere around the iLife debut 2003/2004, there was leaked news about a bit of impasse among company leadership about how Windows was being marketed at the time. I believe it was Jim Allchin who was head of Windows development was impressed with Apples bundle strategy, but also the PC setup experience vs Mac. This was I believe during the nightmare period when OEMs were filling PCs with crappy apps that would slow down a PC out of the box. Jim was frustrated with why Apple was getting this right, but Windows was delivering a similar experience for users. I'm paraphrasing a lot of this of course.

Whatever the Windows group wanted, the big money at Microsoft was from MS Office. People used to say that Windows was just a platform to run Office. No strategy was going to get anywhere without Office’s support.
 

jdb8167

macrumors 601
Nov 17, 2008
4,867
4,603
I would pay extra for this aqua look on my retina screen M1 MBA. It's such a lovely UI. ?
Well my 2013 Mac Pro seems to have the aqua look right now for free. When I tried to run the recovery boot it booted into an ancient version that included lickable blue aqua buttons. I haven't seen anything that looks like that in years.

I'm probably going to have to figure out why under Big Sur I get the ancient internet boot recovery system. Yay!
 
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dmccloud

macrumors 68040
Sep 7, 2009
3,155
1,911
Anchorage, AK
The biggest takeaway for me with the M1 Pro is that the battery life is ridiculously long. I can easily run the machine off battery for hours and hours at a time, then pick back up the next day and do it again without even bring the laptop near a charger. I tend to be mobile a lot, so I often find myself in a scenario where opportunities to charge my devices are few and far between. Using a machine where the SoC sips power means I don't even have to worry about bring my charger with me on a normal day. The other thing I appreciate is that the Mac doesn't throttle down or switch to a low-power mode when running on battery. My MSI laptop does that, and it's like switching from running on a track to running in a tar pit. This combination of battery life and performance means that the M1 Pro has become my go-to machine to take with me, and the MSI is basically a miniature desktop computer, since it never leaves the desk.
 

markiv810

macrumors 6502
Sep 27, 2002
379
114
India
I have to admit, this something I have been looking forward to comparing. Although they are not technically equals since the Wallstreet predates OS 10.0 by a few years, its a G3 that's a supported model. But when some of us complain about the constant progress of innovation, we have a lot to be thankful for. I thought the PB was a relatively small but weighty device, but this thing is brick/tank next to the M1 MacBook. One thing I have to say though, I am not sure how well Big Sur's look will hold up over the next 20 years. Minus the overuse of pinstripes, 10.0, still looks good to this day, and that cool relaxing Aqua wallpaper is just timeless.

View attachment 1691021

Its just amazing to think, these are two 13 inch devices, 23 years apart. Moving between the keyboards can be a bit jarring, the PB's keyboard is actually nicer to use. Keys feel like you are typing on pillows, while the M1 is more akin to typing on a scientific calculator. Its definitely improved since the first time I tested it in 2016 at the store, but it just cannot compare to the right balance of my 2015 MBP.

View attachment 1691019

But, with those minor trade offs, 23 years of refinements offer huge benefits:

  • Fast boot up - this 512 GBs SSD flies, compared to the old creaky 20 GB mechanical disk in the PB. Although I haven't been pressed for space on my devices over the years, its gonna be a challenge filling this up.
  • RAM - The PB has 160 MBs, which I think back in 2000 was absurdly a lot. 10.0 flies on it; Finder windows pop open but it sure can't help the lack of optimization in some apps. An app like Mail 1.0 takes 8 bounces to open, versus a single launch for Mail 14.0 on Big Sur.
  • Displays - hands down the Retina is a reminder of how grateful I am. Although the 1024 by 768 does well on the PB with the help of 10.0s anti-aliasing, for the time that would have been considered much improved experience. The sharpness and fine details of icons transparency; some of which OS 10.0 had is just superb on the M1.
  • Battery life - on the PB, its dead, anytime I shut this down, requires resetting the date and time. But, even with the battery working, the M1 with its 20 hour battery life is insanely great. This puts it on par with my other Apple devices like the iPhone and iPad.
  • Speed - Obviously no comparison, M1 is just super duper fast. System doesn't warm and I can have many apps and browser tabs open with worry.
  • Everyday usage - I just got the M1 yesterday, but I've elected to not install any third party apps. That for me is intentional because unlike the PB 20 years ago, I would have still needed to keep Classic around to do some of really basic things like word processing or watch DVDs. Pretty much everything you need to use this computer already is included. I was even gonna install Chrome because its native and I've been using more often on my older Mac, but I decided to skip. I'm not even gonna install Microsoft Office. Pages does what I need and I plan on weaning myself off products that require spending more money.
  • Reliability - OS X's UNIX heritage has always been shining advantage: pre-emptive multi-tasking, memory protection lead to less system instability, especially with bad behaving apps. On the M1 that of course continues and with Apples deep integration with their SoC, its even more significant. I can't even begin to explain it, but even operations like booting into recovery is a world difference. I always found OS X's recovery options confusing, even though they might be better than Windows or Linux. Just the ability to hold down the Touch ID power button versus the scientific laundry list of holding C after boot chime voodoo is appreciated. Although, I rarely ever need to go into recovery these days, its just a reminder of the finer details.
But, its such striking experience where all the pieces are in place on day one for the M1. It took until about Panther and eventually the transition to Intel for the Mac to feel like a truly mainstream platform and alternative to Windows. In 2020, this feels like mature product that naturally integrates with the rest of my digital life. While writing this, a perfect example of that popped up again. When I setup the M1 yesterday evening, I elected to sign in with my iCloud account. most of what I needed was just there when I logged in: my passwords, favorites all there. I call just popped up and I had the option of taking it right there on the Mac. Thats just so amazing! Say what you will about the Touch Bar, its a nice addition, outside of getting use to the volume option, its fine.

View attachment 1691020


I can't imagine what's in store for the next 20 years, much less next week. But when you do comparisons like this, you really get to see the big picture. Of course, no one in their right mind would be using a PB with OS 10.0 up to now, but again, its about the refinements and appreciating that. This is certainly not my last Mac and I will likely be taking out the CC in 2023 for a iMac then another MacBook in 2023.

Certainly, Apple has delivered a successful integrated package with the M1 and really delivers and end to end seamless experience throughout its wider ecosystem of products.

Yeah man, OS X looked so unreal when it was launched, the constantly glowing Aqua button was amazing so was the Aqua GUI on OS X. In 2001, I bought my first ever Mac Powerbook G4 450 MHz. We surely have come a long way, I went from PowerBook G4 to Powermac G5, and a few intel based Macs (MacBook, MacBook Air Mac mini) along the way and now m1 Mac mini. We surely have come a long way, and have many more miles to go. It has been quite a journey on the Mac platform and also a great journey on the MacRumors platform.
 

armoured

macrumors regular
Feb 1, 2018
211
163
ether
I'm not even gonna install Microsoft Office. Pages does what I need and I plan on weaning myself off products that require spending more money.
Personally I can't quite get my head around how Pages/Numbers/etc work, and I don't wish to 'mode switch' mentally. Dealing with file formats when almost everything I get/use/need to edit from others is in some kind of Office file format.

But on the mac I've found LibreOffice to be very close in terms of mental model, i.e. for the most part you may barely notice the difference from office (or it's close enough you won't care much). This is probably more important for spreadsheets than word processing (where honestly I can get by with textedit for basic stuff).

YMMV of course particularly if you use some of the more out-there features on Office but for the most part handles Office file formats without difficulty - notably better than the i-Whatever equivalents. In fact I consider it an essential tool on all my computers - and it's also nice that it's effectively the same program and interface on windows/linux - I think installed by default on most linux distros - meaning you can pick up on almost any platform and do basic stuff.

(I don't think it's native for M1 yet but doubt it matters at all for performance unless you're running some monster excel sheets)
 
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Mr. Dee

macrumors 603
Original poster
Dec 4, 2003
5,990
12,840
Jamaica
Personally I can't quite get my head around how Pages/Numbers/etc work, and I don't wish to 'mode switch' mentally. Dealing with file formats when almost everything I get/use/need to edit from others is in some kind of Office file format.

But on the mac I've found LibreOffice to be very close in terms of mental model, i.e. for the most part you may barely notice the difference from office (or it's close enough you won't care much). This is probably more important for spreadsheets than word processing (where honestly I can get by with textedit for basic stuff).

YMMV of course particularly if you use some of the more out-there features on Office but for the most part handles Office file formats without difficulty - notably better than the i-Whatever equivalents. In fact I consider it an essential tool on all my computers - and it's also nice that it's effectively the same program and interface on windows/linux - I think installed by default on most linux distros - meaning you can pick up on almost any platform and do basic stuff.

(I don't think it's native for M1 yet but doubt it matters at all for performance unless you're running some monster excel sheets)
You are right about iWork, Numbers in particular. Figuring out how auto-aim worked was like a needle in a haystack. I have a budget spreadsheet in Excel and I tested conversion in Numbers on my Intel Mac. It did a half decent enough job but the formatting was still not there. Hopefully by the time Microsoft releases the perpetual version update of Office for M1 early so I can grab it off my still active MSDN Sub.

Or I can ask my former roommate who is a MS Alumni to get me copy. Otherwise, I just don’t want taint my M1 with anything third party just yet.
 

armoured

macrumors regular
Feb 1, 2018
211
163
ether
Otherwise, I just don’t want taint my M1 with anything third party just yet.
Well, I won't argue with your ideas about purity, but Libreoffice handles office stuff very competently and is one of my first installs on any new computer. I think you'll find it useful especially for spreadsheets. Even for word-y type documents and presentations, useful as a tool for conversion of old filetypes and even sometimes different Office vintages give formatting oddities.
 

satcomer

Suspended
Feb 19, 2008
9,115
1,977
The Finger Lakes Region
I say living thru that era as Mac User the best version of Mac OS X was 10.6 versions! Then when Microsoft caved in and let Mac OS X onto Domains with the Sever 2010 (you had to turn on DNS server inside you domain for Mac OS X in Server 2008s2)! Good times when some businesses starting integrating Macs into their businesses!
 

icymountain

macrumors 6502a
Dec 12, 2006
535
598
Such comparisons are a lot of fun. :)
The 23 years old PB did hold very well, I love to see both on side by side.
Next part, compare these two with the future M24 MPB in 23 years (if the M1 still boots, that is).
 

TrueBlou

macrumors 601
Sep 16, 2014
4,531
3,619
Scotland
Brings a tear to your eye ;) 23 years ago is right around the time I started switching over from Windows to Mac, although my oldest surviving (working) Mac, is my iMac G4.

Funny thing is though, I still fire up the G4 from time to time, to use some old software, the difference between using that and one of my Windows systems from the same era is astounding.

The Windows machines are so slow and clunky that I always, always, want to throw the damn thing out of the (ahem) window. The iMac on the other hand, is actually still nice to use. Obviously it's nowhere near the power of todays systems, but it doesn't feel slow to use in the same way the Windows machines do. Biggest and by far the best switch in technology I have ever made.
 
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Justin Nordin

macrumors newbie
Apr 24, 2020
3
32
I remember somewhere around the iLife debut 2003/2004, there was leaked news about a bit of impasse among company leadership about how Windows was being marketed at the time. I believe it was Jim Allchin who was head of Windows development was impressed with Apples bundle strategy, but also the PC setup experience vs Mac. This was I believe during the nightmare period when OEMs were filling PCs with crappy apps that would slow down a PC out of the box. Jim was frustrated with why Apple was getting this right, but Windows was delivering a similar experience for users. I'm paraphrasing a lot of this of course.

When I first saw OS X on 'The Screen Savers' in March 2001, I was shocked a computer operating system could look that pretty. I was using Windows 98 SE at the time. But, that's what got me hooked, of course, being a poor student with no money, I could only view screenshots of OS X and read Macworld. On top of the entrenched nature of Windows at the time and eventually Windows XP's market dominance. My first OS X machine wasn't until the hacked OS X Tiger x86 which I installed on my custom built AMD Sempron dual booting with Windows XP Pro x64 and Windows Vista betas.

Just found the article:

My favorite part of reading that article (and thank you for sharing it!) is this quote: "2-and-1/2 years later, Windows Vista has turned into a phenomenal product, better than any other OS we’ve ever built and far, far better than any other software available today, in my opinion," Allchin wrote.


Honestly I had a lot of respect for Allchin for telling his team that they missed the mark and that Apple was getting it right with Mac OS. He immediately lost that respect when he towed the company line and claimed Vista was "Phenomenal."

I'm a Windows user who converted to MacOS back in 2004, but I can tell you as someone who has supported every operating system since Windows 3.1 and Macintosh 9+, Vista was horrible. Microsoft has had 2 IMHO horrible operating systems. ME and Vista. The rest have their merits, but still don't hold a candle to MacOS.
 

NLLV

macrumors regular
Sep 16, 2020
218
389
  • Fast boot up - this 512 GBs SSD flies, compared to the old creaky 20 GB mechanical disk in the PB. Although I haven't been pressed for space on my devices over the years, its gonna be a challenge filling this up.
I envy you. I use my M1 for video, I purchased the most storage I could get in a store without waiting 6 weeks for a custom build (512) and within 2 weeks ended up getting a 1tb SSD for my work.

The positive thing is, coming from Windows, I never knew external storage could be this fast. I transferred a 30gb Final Cut library in less than 1 minute, that was a very cool experience.
 
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ninecows

macrumors 6502a
Apr 9, 2012
760
1,249
I wouldn’t be so sure on the big Office cash cow at MS anymore. It was for sure a big thing 10 years ago.

At our work we use Excel a lot pulling in lots of data from SAP and such, but lately we have adapted far better solutions. Data is in the cloud (no - not OneDrive) and accessed through in house made web apps. Runs far more stable, snappy and can easily handle 10x the amount of data.
Meanwhile in Redmond they’re becoming so agile in their software development that we have all become beta testers and they are forcing crippled web editions of word and excel upon us that is just slowing down our workflow and cannot offer the features we have relied on for 10 years.
Teams is working pretty ok, but is on fast track to just becoming a new version of outlook & Skype. It is just as much a way to waste time and get distracted as those two old ones. Surely gifs and star wars web cam background are great fun, but they do nothing for productivity.
Then I suspect the old sharepoint thing where we read and sign our iso documents is also Microsoft’s doing. It just doesn’t work with Edge, so we have to use good old IE.

They remind me of some old close to extinction animal that got sidetracked in evolution to something ridiculous and helpless. Like the dodo...
 
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