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Powermac G4 MDD with PC video card?

K

Krisz

macrumors member
Original poster
Nov 11, 2018
79
6
Hungary
Hello!

I bought a Powermac G4 MDD machine and my question is can I use a PC video card with this machine?
Without flashing
I want to use MorphOS on it
the card currently in the machine (Radeon 9000 pro 64GB) is very slow for some applications and I want at least a 9600 or 9800 video card instead
Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to find a Mac edition card, or if there is one for sale, it is very expensive.
The PC version is much cheaper and there are lots of them on ebay
I read that you have to disable pins 3 and 11 on the PC video card to make it work on a Mac computer
Since the machine would only be used for MorphOS, I wouldn't care if there was no boot screen! The only question is, would it work without flashing?

Thanks in advance and sorry for the bad English
 
You can try to flash a PC video card with a ROM, for MacOS to work. And the pin 3 and 11 on the AGP must be disabled, if I recall (you can use a small tape or somehthing for this, maybe a marker will do too).

Some old readings on this topic with links:

What graphics cards work with Power Mac G… - Apple Community

discussions.apple.com discussions.apple.com

DVI graphics card for PowerMac G4 - Apple Community

discussions.apple.com discussions.apple.com

And especially this site:

Look for

G4 (and G5) AGP Graphics Card Upgrades:
Part 2- OS X
Saturday, January 2, 2010

G4 AGP Graphics Card Upgrades:
Part 1- OS 9
Friday, January 1, 2010

However...

If you don't want to use MacOS at all, you can just try the standard PC graphic card with the original ROM on it with MorphOS. Maybe it will work. Just put the card into the AGP slot and try to boot up the machine. What can happen? You eventually get nothing or dark screen. That's all. But if it works..! 😊

Also, check this page:


I sadly can't give you more informations, since I neved tried MorphOS. And I don't have any old PowerMacs at my hands.
 
opeter said:
You can try to flash a PC video card with a ROM, for MacOS to work. And the pin 3 and 11 on the AGP must be disabled, if I recall (you can use a small tape or somehthing for this, maybe a marker will do too).

Some old readings on this topic with links:

What graphics cards work with Power Mac G… - Apple Community

discussions.apple.com discussions.apple.com

DVI graphics card for PowerMac G4 - Apple Community

discussions.apple.com discussions.apple.com

And especially this site:

Look for

G4 (and G5) AGP Graphics Card Upgrades:
Part 2- OS X
Saturday, January 2, 2010

G4 AGP Graphics Card Upgrades:
Part 1- OS 9
Friday, January 1, 2010

However...

If you don't want to use MacOS at all, you can just try the standard PC graphic card with the original ROM on it with MorphOS. Maybe it will work. Just put the card into the AGP slot and try to boot up the machine. What can happen? You eventually get nothing or dark screen. That's all. But if it works..! 😊

Also, check this page:


I sadly can't give you more informations, since I neved tried MorphOS. And I don't have any old PowerMacs at my hands.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the help!
I already tried a Radeon 9250 video card but it didn't work :(
I taped pins 3 and 11 and the computer started but no image!
Maybe it will work with another card, I'll look for a 9600 card and try it out
The MorphOS description states that it does not work with reflashed cards.
 
You can use a non-flashed PC card with Morphos on the g4 mdd. First you need to install Morphos with a card with Mac firmware (e.g. Radeon 9000pro). Keep in mind that not all AGP cards will work with Morphos. My mdd works with HD3450, but with HD4650 the graphics are terribly slow.
 
eastone said:
Használhat nem flash PC-kártyát a Morphos-szal a g4 mdd-n. Először telepíteni kell a Morphos-t egy Mac firmware-rel rendelkező kártyával (pl. Radeon 9000pro). Ne feledje, hogy nem minden AGP-kártya működik a Morphos-szal. Az mdd-m HD3450-el működik, de a HD4650-nél iszonyatosan lassú a grafika.
Click to expand...
I can't put an HD card in the mdd because the connector only supports AGP cards :(
 
Krisz said:
I can't put an HD card in the mdd because the connector only supports AGP cards :(
Click to expand...
I looked it up, there is an agp version that I didn't know about.
and if I put such a pc card in the MDD machine, will it work with it?
I think the 3rd and 11th pins have to be taped off for this version too
 
If I remember correctly, many ATI and Nvidia cards had AGP versions, like the Radeon HD26xx series, HD3xxx etc.

Here are some pictures:

Sapphire Radeon HD 2600 XT AGP (from Reddit)
arAdtwT.jpeg


XFX Geforce 7600 Gs 256MB DDR2 AGP
FLqWa4j.jpeg

NVIDIA Quadro FX 3000 256MB DDR Dual DVI AGP Video Card

P3Aa0kk.jpeg
39wFGMf.jpeg
 
Krisz said:
I looked it up, there is an agp version that I didn't know about.
and if I put such a pc card in the MDD machine, will it work with it?
I think the 3rd and 11th pins have to be taped off for this version too
Click to expand...
MorphOS and PPC Linux versions should work with the standard PC graphic cards. No need for "disabling" the mentioned pins.

Only MacOS is problematic.

Here is a forum thread about different PPC Linux OS:
 
opeter said:
If I remember correctly, many ATI and Nvidia cards had AGP versions, like the Radeon HD26xx series, HD3xxx etc.

Here are some pictures:

Sapphire Radeon HD 2600 XT AGP (from Reddit)
arAdtwT.jpeg


XFX Geforce 7600 Gs 256MB DDR2 AGP
FLqWa4j.jpeg

NVIDIA Quadro FX 3000 256MB DDR Dual DVI AGP Video Card

P3Aa0kk.jpeg
39wFGMf.jpeg
Click to expand...
As far as I know, there is no 3D support for HD cards under MorphOS, so I'll try the 9600 or 9800 version and hope the PC card will work on MDD.
 
Than you already have answered your own question :) You need a modified AGP graphic card, that will work with you machine. Simple.
 
Krisz said:
PowerMacs can't work with PC video cards! If you don't disable pins 3 and 11, the computer won't turn on!
This is not OS dependent
Click to expand...
Power Macs absolutely can work with PC video cards, as long as they've been flashed. If it isn't turning on after disabling pins 3 and 11, then you disabled them wrong. The Mac will turn on whether there's a card in it or not. The only time it wouldn't power on due to the video card is if there's something wrong with it or the slot. It's usually incorrect taping\disabling of those two pins.

Source: I've done it a million times. In fact there's a PC Radeon X850 (I think its an 850 I haven't played with it in awhile) in my MDD right now. It has been flashed over to an OF ROM, so it functions.

I still have no idea if an OS like MorphOS will activate a non-flashed card or not, though. I know there are reports of Linux being used with newer cards like the PCIe Radeon HD series cards in Power Mac G5s.
 
Project Alice said:
I still have no idea if an OS like MorphOS will activate a non-flashed card or not, though. I know there are reports of Linux being used with newer cards like the PCIe Radeon HD series cards in Power Mac G5s.
Click to expand...
Radeon 9600 Pro AGP from a G5 will work in a MDD with MacOS, if the 2 pins are disabled first turning the AGP 8x card into AGP 4x card. I see these cards quite often for sale at reasonable prices.

I have not tried MorphOS (or Linux) in my machine (MDD FW800 + 9600 Pro G5) so don't know if it works or not but I cannot see why it wouldn't work, but as long as I haven't tried it I cannot be sure. However the PM G4 and G5 and Radeon 9600 Pro are all on the MorphOS hardware compatibility list. So, maybe? ;)
 
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opeter said:
Mint ahogy már megválaszoltad a saját kérdésedet. :) Szükséged van egy módosított AGP grafikus kártyára, ami működik a gépeddel. Egyszerű.
Click to expand...
Ha jól értem, a MorphOS leírása szerint a rendszer nem fogad el módosított kártyákat :(
 
Project Alice said:
A Power Mac-ek teljesen működnek PC-s videokártyákkal, amennyiben flashelték. Ha a 3. és 11. érintkező letiltása után nem kapcsol be, akkor rosszul tiltotta le őket. A Mac bekapcsol, akár van benne kártya, akár nincs. Csak akkor nem kapcsol be a videokártya miatt, ha valami baj van vele vagy a foglalattal. Ez általában a két tű helytelen rögzítése/letiltása.

Forrás: milliószor megtettem. Valójában van egy PC Radeon X850 (azt hiszem, egy 850-es, nem játszottam vele egy ideje) az MDD-mben. OF ROM-ra lett flasholva, tehát működik.

Még mindig fogalmam sincs, hogy egy olyan operációs rendszer, mint a MorphOS, aktiválja-e a nem flash kártyát vagy sem. Tudom, hogy vannak jelentések arról, hogy Linuxot használnak újabb kártyákkal, például a PCIe Radeon HD sorozatú kártyákkal a Power Mac G5s-ben.
Click to expand...
Kipróbáltam egy PC Radeon 9250 kártyát, és miután felragasztottam a 2 érintkezőt, a számítógép bekapcsolt, de csak fekete képernyőt adott.
Sajnos a MorphOS nem fogad el flashed kártyákat, ha jól értettem a leírást.
 
Krisz said:
Kipróbáltam egy PC Radeon 9250 kártyát, és miután felragasztottam a 2 érintkezőt, a számítógép bekapcsolt, de csak fekete képernyőt adott.
Sajnos a MorphOS nem fogad el flashed kártyákat, ha jól értettem a leírást.
Click to expand...
MorphOS can accept flashed cards. It wouldn't be aware the card was flashed. The difference between a flashed and non-flashed card is that flashed cards have an OpenFirmware compatible ROM on them instead of a standard BIOS one.

If you tried a Radeon 9250 (and its confirmed it is in fact a working card) and MorphOS did not initialize it, did sort of answer your own question.
 
Thanks everyone
I found 2 video cards very cheap
one is a Radeon 9200 SE 128MB 64bit
the other is a Radeon 9600 256MB
I hope at least one of them will work with MDD
both cards are PC versions
 
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Krisz said:
Thanks everyone
I found 2 video cards very cheap
one is a Radeon 9200 SE 128MB 64bit
the other is a Radeon 9600 256MB
I hope at least one of them will work with MDD
both cards are PC versions
Click to expand...
2 of the 3 cards arrived today
after taping the 2 contacts the machine starts but I only get a black screen so whoever claims that the PC video card works with an MP G4 machine is wrong
 
My experiences are with a QS G4, but should still be true for a MDD.

Older pre AtomBIOS Radeons will only work if they have a PPC/OF BIOS either from factory or flashed (which can be hit or miss).

Installing the AGP HD3450 that works fine in the G5 did result in a non booting system even after tapping those pins.
I also have a MacEdition 9800PRO which shows similar (non) results.

Really old cards like a Voodoo3 (PCI) work without any modifications, are perfect for older games (1995-2005 era) and give a nice 2nd screen.

There do seem to be some general issues with AGP HDxxxx cards that may or may not be solved 3.19 (I'm running the betas).

Things you might wanna check out is wether it is really the card that is to slow or just the G4. Or maybe you are running out of VMEM on the 64MB card.

My QS is running at 1.8GHz, a SATA SSD on a SIL3112 and a (Apple) Radeon 9000 (non Pro) with 128MB and doesn't feel that much slower as the 2.3GHz AGP G5 with that HD3450.
Having a 2k capable HDMI port is the deciding factor here why the G4 is retired for now.
 
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Krisz said:
2 of the 3 cards arrived today
after taping the 2 contacts the machine starts but I only get a black screen so whoever claims that the PC video card works with an MP G4 machine is wrong
Click to expand...
As we have all said, they won't work out of the box. They will need flashed.
There is the question of certain OS's being able to initialize them if they aren't, like modern Linux.

Krisz said:
Thanks everyone
I found 2 video cards very cheap
one is a Radeon 9200 SE 128MB 64bit
the other is a Radeon 9600 256MB
I hope at least one of them will work with MDD
both cards are PC versions
Click to expand...
I have had no luck in flashing those 9200 SE's to OF. I've tried 3 of them. The 9600 might be a good candidate though.
 
Thanks everyone!
I'm waiting for the radeon 9600 to arrive and it looks like I'll have to get an old pc motherboard that has an AGP slot and an integrated video card and maybe I'll be able to flash Mac Bios to the card with that
I read that some resistors need to be moved after a successful flash
I just don't know how I'll find a rom file for the given card
And I don't know if the radeon 9600 has a 64 or 128 kb rom
I know that the mac card rom is always 128 kb
And I also have a question where I can find the modified rom for the radeon 9600
 
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