macOS Programming a dead end?

[robbieduncan]

I think you're talking bollocks because I've never seen a job like that for a normal employee - where do these mythical dream jobs happen (except in the company boardroom of course)

Maybe in France?

 

[bozigle]

If the locals would get more than a basic education or stop demanding 100k/year for entry level positions then locals would get hired on.

And are you saying people in developing countries with worse conditions than in Europe or America are don't deserve better lives through high-tech work? Typical elitist hyperbole; screw the rest of the (developing) world as long as your 4 month-long vacations and 4 day work weeks and perpetual employment are preserved.

I don't see reasons to get that pissed.
The matter is a bit more complicated than the simple equation: education + experience = salary
Different places in the world called for different expenses.
the price of a living is different from let say Canada where you need to spend quite much in heating and food get emormous taxes since it's king of frozen all year round (before jumping on me... this is a joke... right) compare to say North of Brazil (for example... brazilian don't jump on me neither please).
The fact that some countries have a higher living cost is reflected in the salaries.
I do think that outsourcing has great benefits on the so called "Developing" countries, and that as a side effect of globalisation, some countries do get some "better" education and industries.

Now i also understand iwoot comment as follows:
"local people" are also the first customers... take away their "expensive" salary and not only they are not likely to buy the manufactured good (software) but they might end up not having money just to sustain themselve. So the company doesn't have customers anymore so the company can't employ outsource worker anymore... even the cheap ones.

So Who is the winner in such case?
Outsourcing has its benefits... to some extends.
So far i think there is still plenty of work in SE for everyone around, and it should be as such for many years (centuries??)


bozigle

 

[Llywelyn]

Im sure some programmers visit this board so i want to ask them if they think computing (programming) is a dead end job.

TIA

Speaking as a Software Engineer, I believe that eventually "programming" will be a skill like "typing": it is just expected that you know at least the basics of it.

But there will always always always be room for good SEs who can design and build software and who have domain expertise in algorithm design and analysis.

 

[savar]

Im sure some programmers visit this board so i want to ask them if they think computing (programming) is a dead end job.

TIA

Software development is slowly becoming a commodity. There are still niches that are profitable, though. If you're interested in this industry, try to focus on things that really benefit from being done locally. E.g. maybe spend a few years as a developer and then work your way into a business analyst role. The BA jobs won't be shipped overseas so soon because they need to be in close contact.

Other good roles: designer, architect, project manager, and...? (add to this list)

 

[bousozoku]

That is good news.

There is nothing more patently ******** than a major corporation starving out the livelihoods of local people while profiting out of the very same people.

It does seem that way. The local phone companies and ISPs hire off shore workers and charge more for their services.

President Bush was pushing for a higher number of H-1B visas here so that they could import more people to fill positions that U.S. citizens can't fill. However, he didn't mention anything about education to make sure that the jobs can eventually be filled by citizens.

I don't see programming going away any time soon.

Years ago, CASE (Computer Aided Software Engineering) was a big deal but unfortunately, no one created Computer Aided Software Maintenance so the generated code was often more difficult to maintain that what it replaced.

When you see how much Mac users use Automator to do their own "programming", you have to believe that the world will always need programmers.

 

[Axegrinder]

I'm a programmer. This time last year my company made most of my colleagues redundant and shipped the work to India. They kept me on as a kind of consultant to provide the technical link between there and here.

They thought outsourcing would solve all their problems but all it did was trade one set for another. Now they struggle to get information exactly when they need it, and if any of our techincal support people need to resolve issues for our customers, well, they just have to wait until they can get an answer from them. Not ideal at all.

I've just applied for a new job. I've grown bored without some meaty development work to get stuck into. I've decided that I shouldn't soley focus on just design and programming (I use C# BTW). I'm going to get myself certified in SQL Server. That way I always have the option of being an SQL Server administrator should the programming jobs dry up around my way.

I can't see programming providing me a career through to retirement (another 30 years or so). Maybe I'm just a pessimist but that's how I feel.

 

[pilotError]

i want to ask them if they think computing (programming) is a dead end job.

Yep, its a dead end in and of itself. Your career will move along pretty quickly, but you'll top out pretty quickly too.

It is a stepping stone for the most part. You start your career as a programmer, work you way up into some other position, be it project management, architect, DBA, etc..

If you want to remain a programmer, you will have to be content at some salary level, depending on where you live and work.

You will need to constantly go to school and learn the new technologies as that is where the money is. If you stay anywhere for a long period of time, chances are your skills will stagnate, as most corporations tend to standardize on a handful of technologies. You WILL grow tired of this at some point. It gets harder the older you get.

President Bush was pushing for a higher number of H-1B visas here so that they could import more people to fill positions that U.S. citizens can't fill.

He's bowing to corporate political pressure. American Talent is expensive and companies can only do so much with offshore resources. Having them in-house gives them leverage to kill off their expensive American counterparts. Thats the reality. During the last 4 years, I know more people that have gone into different careers because they were effectively replaced by H1-B visa candidates. They stay for 5-7 years making very low wages and get their Green cards or go home. In the end, they are replaced by other H1-B visa candidates. I see it everyday. Anyone who says that there's too many open jobs is just full of crap!

IT isn't a bad career, I've done pretty well for all these years, just don't go into it blindly with unrealistic expectations. Set a goal or at least a 5 year plan for yourself and stick to it, or you just might find yourself dissapointed in 10 years.

Good luck,

Mike...

 

[ChrisA]

Im sure some programmers visit this board so i want to ask them if they think computing (programming) is a dead end job.

TIA

I figure as there are fewer and fewer computers made each year and with the trend to people going back to subsistence farming and hunting and gathering there will be less demand for software. Heck even here at work they are talking of removing computers from spacecraft and ground stations and replacing them all with trained monkeys We spent a year witting software to aim an antenna but now the monkey just moves it by hand. I'm thinking about becoming a homeless bagger and living under a freeway exit but then that field is getting crowded. Maybe I'll become a performance artist instead.

But wait -- The banana dispenser is computer controlled and needs software to determine if the monkey has correctly aimed the antenna. Looks like I've got a job for another year

 

[ctango]

Newbie is in

While I am still self teaching myself programming, and am no where near where I want to be yet, I wanted to say that even low level programming pays and is not a dead end job.

Computer programming reminds me of the gold prospectors back during the gold rush. It can level the playing field because everyone starts out with the same thing. You could hit it big and become a giant, or you may get lucky and get bought out by a giant (Google). But the fact remains that you have as much of a shot as the next programmer. Granted someone else might have more experience, but they might not see a niche or market need that is unmet.

Bottom line. Programming mixed with creativity can always be lucrative.

Plus, there will always be teaching jobs for programmers.

 

[gauchogolfer]

I figure as there are fewer and fewer computers made each year and with the trend to people going back to subsistence farming and hunting and gathering there will be less demand for software. Heck even here at work they are talking of removing computers from spacecraft and ground stations and replacing them all with trained monkeys We spent a year witting software to aim an antenna but now the monkey just moves it by hand. I'm thinking about becoming a homeless bagger and living under a freeway exit but then that field is getting crowded. Maybe I'll become a performance artist instead.

But wait -- The banana dispenser is computer controlled and needs software to determine if the monkey has correctly aimed the antenna. Looks like I've got a job for another year

Based on all of the above, I'm going to guess you work at Northrop Grumman or TRW.

 

[jhande]

At what point does abstraction change programming to design, though?

I work on projects with some pretty hot-shot types who really are wizards when it comes to the whole UML scene.

I remember a talk given at the last Ada conference (the video, I wasn't there), where Model Driven Architecture was one of the topics talked about.

If the UML can be used (not just UC, but the whole gamut), at what point will we be able to generate the abstract interfaces, and press 'compile'?

At that point I will consider 90% bread & butter programming to be under threat, and consider alternatives.

It's an interesting topic to follow, tho'

 

[bobber205]

I've got a great idea to make tons of money!

Bring porn to the internet! No. I'm not kidding. I'm that radical!
I'll make trillions.

(it hasn't been done yet has it? I've looked and found squat.)

Other news:
I see my future in programming as this:
Be a programmer for some many years. Show that I am creative, intelligent, and very hard working. Move up the ranks. Now that then I won't be doing that much actual "programming" I'll devote my talents (and any free time lol) to help other Open Source projects, make plugins/mods etc etc.)

 

[Grakkle]

It's not a job that will go away. But it is what it is: sitting at a desk writing programs, and a lot of companies want quite boring programs written.

But if by "dead end" you mean there's not much prospect of promotion, there is some truth to that. People from accounting or marketing are more likely to be promoted up to CEO level than someone from the programming dept.

One of my uncles was a programmer, and that's how it was with him - I know he views it as pretty much a dead-end job.

Now he's getting his MBA. So that's at least one programmer who doesn't think there's much future in programming.

 

[mbcracken]

I used to be a code slinger in for a couple different corporations doing software development on ancient systems (Cobol & C). The staffing was primarily made up of young hotshots that were trying to just enter the market, middle aged managers and middle age-to-near-retirement lifer programmers.

IMHO, the lifers where the ones that enjoyed doing mundane repetitive programming & support. In other words, they probably would have been just as happy doing automotive assembly work if it paid the same. Boy, did they hang on to there programs and code, making it appear that no one could ever replace them.

I quickly discovered that I was either going to end up with the lifers or I needed to continue to learn the latest greatest acronym (otherwise known as the new programming language-insert sarcasm). The companies that I was in then left it up to the individual to train themselves on their own time. So, the off hours were spent supporting these systems as they failed batch runs each night and doing homework...Where was the time for spending with family?

I bailed! farewell! Maybe I watched one too many reruns of Office Space, but I woke up and realized that I wanted to do something more with my life. Solution? Stay-at-Home Dad! I still look at code from time to time and talk some with folks in XP (extreme programming) but it is just idol fascination.

Why do you care about all reading this short snip of my life? Just be aware what programming jobs you go after. The corporate world can offer some safety benefits but can also be dead boring.

Cheers,
Mike