MP 7,1 Proper UPS for Mac Pro 2019? 2000+VA? (Update: MacPro Power Consumption test)

[zhpenn]

Hi All, about a Proper Uninterruptible Power Supply for a Mac Pro 2019
with 28 cores CPU, 580x GPU, and a 30 inch Monitor( DELL u3014t, 54 Watt on spec).

I have tested the power Consumption of above set up
Fully Loaded GPU and CPU
about 441W

Fully Load CPU only
about 398W

Normal Standby
about 100-180W

DELL U3014t (normal brightness)
36W

Which means about 500W when Max load


Later may add VII GPU and PCI-E Blades SSDs RAIDs and Promise J2i with 2x 3.5inch HDD

Sometimes if the power gets disconnected when it is fully loaded, it can still keep up and running for a few minutes.

In this case How many VA UPS do I need?
Thanks a lot

 

[am_macrumors]

I suggest you this kind of model https://powerwalker.com/?page=product&item=10121109&lang=en

Considering all the devices, I would suggest the 3000VA version. The UPS is a Pure Sine Wave.

 

[AidenShaw]

Hi All, about a Proper Uninterruptible Power Supply for a Mac Pro 2019
with 28 cores CPU, 580x GPU, and a 30 inch Monitor( DELL u3014t, 54 Watt on spec).
Later may add VII GPU and PCI-E Blades SSDs RAIDs and Promise J2i with 2x 3.5inch HDD

Sometimes if the power gets disconnected when it is fully loaded, it can still keep up and running for a few minutes.

In this case How many VA UPS do I need?
Thanks a lot

There's a calculator at https://www.apc.com/shop/us/en/tools/ups_selector/server/load . There are two factors - the UPS needs to have a VA rating adequate for the system, and it needs to have a big enough battery to give you the runtime you need.

You dial in your load, and look at the runtimes.

The "missing link" here, however, is that we need some reports of the power draw of actual systems measured by a Watts Up? or Kill-a-Watt. (Ideally running a heavy GPU load like Furmark.)

Most systems will probably not go above 500 to 600 watts, which would make a 1500va unit fine. (And 1500va is the biggest one safe for 120v 15a circuits, a 2000va unit needs a 20a circuit.)

And, as mentioned, get a "pure" sine wave unit. (Pure in quotes because not even the power company delivers pure sine wave.)

 

[Korican100]

per the website for the 7,1:
Maximum continuous power:
1280W at 108–125V or 220–240V
1180W at 100–107V

this draw was from a 2.5GHz 28-core Mac Pro, with 384GB RAM and dual AMD Radeon Pro Vega II graphics with Infinity Fabric Link, with Afterburner / 4TB SSD.

So it was a beefy system that was just under 1300W.


My system is specced lower at 16core, single vega II. pegasus jsi w/ 2 hdd's. sonnet allegro 3.2 gen 1 pcie card, and OWC nvme accelsior 4m2 pcie.
I will be trying out this one:

CyberPower CP1500AVRLCD Intelligent LCD UPS System, DISCONTINUED * SEE NEW UPDATED MODEL CP1500AVRLCD3 *

A mini-tower UPS with line interactive topology, the CyberPower Intelligent LCD CP1500AVRLCD provides battery backup (using simulated sine wave output) and surge protection for desktop computers, workstations, networking devices, and home entertainment systems. The CP1500AVRLCD uses Automatic Vol...

www.amazon.com

 

[majus]

per the website for the 7,1:
I will be trying out this one:

CyberPower CP1500AVRLCD Intelligent LCD UPS System, DISCONTINUED * SEE NEW UPDATED MODEL CP1500AVRLCD3 *

A mini-tower UPS with line interactive topology, the CyberPower Intelligent LCD CP1500AVRLCD provides battery backup (using simulated sine wave output) and surge protection for desktop computers, workstations, networking devices, and home entertainment systems. The CP1500AVRLCD uses Automatic Vol...

www.amazon.com

Note that Aiden mentioned getting a pure sinewave unit; the one you are looking at is simulated.

 

[Korican100]

Note that Aiden mentioned getting a pure sinewave unit; the one you are looking at is simulated.

so here is where i am sure i need some education. Would simulated sinewave be detrimental to the health of the MacPro 7,1? I used a similar one on my recent MacPro6,1, and its still doing great after 6 years.

 

[AidenShaw]

per the website for the 7,1:
Maximum continuous power:
1280W at 108–125V or 220–240V
1180W at 100–107V

this draw was from a 2.5GHz 28-core Mac Pro, with 384GB RAM and dual AMD Radeon Pro Vega II graphics with Infinity Fabric Link, with Afterburner / 4TB SSD.

So it was a beefy system that was just under 1300W.


My system is specced lower at 16core, single vega II. pegasus jsi w/ 2 hdd's. sonnet allegro 3.2 gen 1 pcie card, and OWC nvme accelsior 4m2 pcie.
I will be trying out this one:

CyberPower CP1500AVRLCD Intelligent LCD UPS System, DISCONTINUED * SEE NEW UPDATED MODEL CP1500AVRLCD3 *

A mini-tower UPS with line interactive topology, the CyberPower Intelligent LCD CP1500AVRLCD provides battery backup (using simulated sine wave output) and surge protection for desktop computers, workstations, networking devices, and home entertainment systems. The CP1500AVRLCD uses Automatic Vol...

www.amazon.com

Run away from that one!

Simulated Sine Wave Output
Uses pulse wave modulation to generate a stepped, approximated sine wave to supply cost-effective battery backup power for equipment that does not require sine wave output.

CP1500AVRLCD

A mini-tower UPS with line interactive topology, the CyberPower Intelligent LCD CP1500AVRLCD provides battery backup (using simulated sine wave output) and surge protection for desktop computers, workstations, networking devices, and home entertainment systems. The CP1500AVRLCD uses Automatic...

www.cyberpowersystems.com

You want pure sine wave, not a stepped approximation of a sine wave.

Lookup "pfc ups" - many high efficiency power supplies will simply shut off when they see stepped waves. The last thing you want is for the 7,1 to shut off when the UPS kicks in.

 

[Korican100]

Run away from that one!


You want pure sine wave, not a stepped approximation of a sine wave.

Lookup "pfc ups" - many high efficiency power supplies will simply shut off when they see stepped waves. The last thing you want is for the 7,1 to shut off when the UPS kicks in.

Correct me if im wrong, but there is no risk to the components via "dirty power". Electronics are so robust wouldn't it make any UPS power output irrelevant? If the UPS provides a step wave, there is only the chance of it "confusing" the PSU of the MacPro. Meaning, it would either leverage the power source, or think its not there at all.

So a test would be, once power is shut off, does the macpro power off as well due to the "confusion"? If not, and the UPS can supply power to the tower long enough for me to save and what not, shouldn't that suffice?

 

[AidenShaw]

So a test would be, once power is shut off, does the macpro power off as well due to the "confusion"?

Why take that chance? And what if the Mac Pro stays running, but the monitor and external disks shut down? Risk of data loss, and you can't see what the Mac Pro is doing to be able to shut it down.

This is the APC 1500VA unit I've been using for workstations. APC SMT1500C Sine wave, $499, and larger battery for longer runtime (360 VAH battery). The APC has 23 minutes runtime at half load, the CyberPower has 12 minutes. At full load, it's 7 minutes vs 3 minutes.

 

[am_macrumors]

My suggestion is the following : choose a pure sine wave UPS to do not eventually "burn" or ruin in the long run the Mac Pro power supply. Consider that some PSUs are not designed for being connected to a UPS with step wave. The closest approximation is the "pure" sine wave shown in my first answer.

This is the APC 1500VA unit I've been using for workstations. APC SMT1500C Sine wave, $499, and larger battery for longer runtime (360 VAH battery). The APC has 23 minutes runtime at half load, the CyberPower has 12 minutes. At full load, it's 7 minutes vs 3 minutes.

As AidenShaw said, it's better having a robust solution for turning off all the devices when there is a blackout. From my point of view, considering the value of all your devices, it is better to choose a 3000VA UPS. I know, it could be an overkill solution, but in this way you can have more minutes to turn off all the devices, even when the Mac Pro 7,1 is under heavy load.

 

[AidenShaw]

it is better to choose a 3000VA UPS

That's a difficult fit for a 120v country, unless you have an electrician install a 240v outlet by your desk.

 

[tsialex]

Sine wave vs step square wave was a real problem when computers still used linear power supplies, 30+ years ago. Some medical imaging equipment still use linear power supplies today, but for this century Macs/PCs is more or less an useless discussion since the switched power supplies used sample the wave with such high frequency that don’t matter anymore if you use a stepped wave UPS.

Anyway, buy the best UPS your money can get with capacity to spare, never use more than 75% of the rated specification. Don’t worry about sine wave for anything that use a switched power supply. The exception is if your equipment have a specified requirement for sine wave like some scientific measure instruments or medical imaging equipments.

 

[AidenShaw]

don’t matter anymore if you use a stepped wave UPS.

Can APC's stepped sine wave damage my power supply?

I have my system connected to an APC Back-UPS RS 800. My power supply is a PC Power and Cooling 510 SLI. When running off the APC battery, my PCP&C PSU emmits a "buzzing" sound. I have asked both the PCP&P and the APC people and they both agree that the noise results from the...

forums.anandtech.com

"I have 3 UPSes. One is a cheap "modified sine wave" one that killed the electronic ballasts in 2 compact fluorescent lights within minutes of plugging them in. In both cases, the CFL bulb buzzed for a couple seconds then went out."

Active PFC-Enabled PSUs Are Not Compatible With Most Low-End UPS

It turns out that most PC power supply units with active power factor correction (PFC) do not work well with lower-cost uninterrupted power supplies (UPS), e.g. battery back-ups. This I learned the…

www.dougv.com

"In short, if you send a high-end PSU the current created by a lower-end UPS, the PSU’s built-in power factor correction hates it, and cuts power to the PC immediately. As in, the exact thing you bought the UPS to prevent in the first place is exactly what happens."

It depends on how many steps are in the stepped approximation. An infinite number of steps would give a sine wave, coarse steps could be an issue.

 

[Snow Tiger]

I suggest you this kind of model https://powerwalker.com/?page=product&item=10121109&lang=en

Considering all the devices, I would suggest the 3000VA version. The UPS is a Pure Sine Wave.

this unit is for a 240V mains . No good for 120V systems .

 

[AidenShaw]

this unit is for a 240V mains . No good for 120V systems .

The big APC Smart-UPS (sine wave) 120V models are: 1500 VA, 2200 VA, and 3000 VA.



Newegg's prices are 1500VA: $489.99, 2200VA: $853.52, 3000VA: $1145.08.

The 1500 plugs into a standard US 15A receptacle - two parallel blades.

The 2200 needs a 20A receptacle - blades are at 90º. 20 amp receptacles in the US usually have one T-shaped slot, so that either parallel 15A plugs or 90º 20A plugs can be used. If your receptacle has the T-shaped slot, by electrical code it should be a 20A circuit.

The 3000 needs a 30A L5-30R locking receptacle. These are not commonly installed. If you have to call the electrician to wire up for a 3000 VA, it's probably a good idea to get the 240v model (you'll save money on the amount of copper needed for the outlet).

Note that all of these assume that the UPS is basically the only device connected to the circuit. OK to have a clock and an LED desk lamp connected, but not another computer.

Also note that APC provides software that can automatically run a shutdown sequence on the Apple OS when the runtime (battery capacity) reaches a level that you set. I typically set my systems to shutdown at 10 minutes remaining runtime. They'll keep running through short outages, but will perform an orderly shutdown if the power doesn't come back within a reasonable time - even if I'm not sitting at my desk to manually shutdown.

Considering that you've bought an MP7,1, it seems foolish to try to save $300 with a low-end consumer stepped-wave UPS vs a sine-wave system with longer runtimes and flexible shutdown software.

 

[zhpenn]

thank you guys for your suggesttion
I have also test power Consumption
with 28 cores CPU, 580x GPU, and a 30 inch Monitor( DELL u3014t, 54 Watt on spec).
I have tested the power Consumption of above set up
Fully Loaded GPU and CPU
about 441W

Fully Load CPU only
about 398W

Normal Standby
about 100-180W

DELL U3014t (normal brightness)
36W

Which means about 500W max load

 

[bsbeamer]

You’re often better splitting load into multiple devices with just the tower on one and everything else on another unit (even if it’s “just” a monitor).

SOME units offer a supplemental battery option via a port/terminal, but they’re harder to find in non-rackmount configs.

SOME audio gear needs pure sine wave UPS or you’ll run into issues with unexplained humm/buzz that you’ll think is grounding related, spend time/money chasing that down and then realize it’s the UPS trigger.

 

[OkiRun]

The big APC Smart-UPS (sine wave) 120V models are: 1500 VA, 2200 VA, and 3000 VA.

View attachment 885432

Newegg's prices are 1500VA: $489.99, 2200VA: $853.52, 3000VA: $1145.08.

The 1500 plugs into a standard US 15A receptacle - two parallel blades.

The 2200 needs a 20A receptacle - blades are at 90º. 20 amp receptacles in the US usually have one T-shaped slot, so that either parallel 15A plugs or 90º 20A plugs can be used. If your receptacle has the T-shaped slot, by electrical code it should be a 20A circuit.

The 3000 needs a 30A L5-30R locking receptacle. These are not commonly installed. If you have to call the electrician to wire up for a 3000 VA, it's probably a good idea to get the 240v model (you'll save money on the amount of copper needed for the outlet).

Note that all of these assume that the UPS is basically the only device connected to the circuit. OK to have a clock and an LED desk lamp connected, but not another computer.

Also note that APC provides software that can automatically run a shutdown sequence on the Apple OS when the runtime (battery capacity) reaches a level that you set. I typically set my systems to shutdown at 10 minutes remaining runtime. They'll keep running through short outages, but will perform an orderly shutdown if the power doesn't come back within a reasonable time - even if I'm not sitting at my desk to manually shutdown.

Considering that you've bought an MP7,1, it seems foolish to try to save $300 with a low-end consumer stepped-wave UPS vs a sine-wave system with longer runtimes and flexible shutdown software.

Do you think it safe to connect the Mac Pro 7.1 to a Cyber Power Battery Backup with surge protection 650 VA/360 Watts?

 

[AidenShaw]

Do you think it safe to connect the Mac Pro 7.1 to a Cyber Power Battery Backup with surge protection 650 VA/360 Watts?

I don't connect anything to CyberPower.

You're asking if it's OK to connect a 450watt load to a 360watt UPS? No.

Note that the runtime is much shorter at higher loads. Often people will use a larger UPS to get longer runtimes. (I have my 50watt TiVo connected to a 1500VA Smart-UPS sine wave unit - 2½ hours runtime, a full movie.)

 

[AidenShaw]

BTW here's one of my GPU server setups. Systems are dual socket (28C/56T) with 1 TiB of RAM and quad GTX 1080 Ti GPUs, 3200 watt PSU (4 x 800 watt). UPS systems are 5000VA on 208V 30A (note the voltage readout on the LCDs).

Don't buy a cheap UPS that barely meets your load.

 

[Snow Tiger]

BTW here's one of my GPU server setups. Systems are dual socket (28C/56T) with 1 TiB of RAM and quad GTX 1080 Ti GPUs, 3200 watt PSU (4 x 800 watt). UPS systems are 5000VA on 208V 30A (note the voltage readout on the LCDs).

View attachment 885690

Don't buy a cheap UPS that barely meets your load.

I bet your 1080 Ti cards are pretty quiet at load .

 

[AidenShaw]

I bet your 1080 Ti cards are pretty quiet at load .

Don't care - they're not on (or under) my desk.

 

[OkiRun]

BTW here's one of my GPU server setups. Systems are dual socket (28C/56T) with 1 TiB of RAM and quad GTX 1080 Ti GPUs, 3200 watt PSU (4 x 800 watt). UPS systems are 5000VA on 208V 30A (note the voltage readout on the LCDs).

View attachment 885690

Don't buy a cheap UPS that barely meets your load.

I need surge protection for the mac pro, xdr, two yamaha monitors, an apollo twin (and the additional outlets to plug them in). This set up is more powerful than others I use. I thought combing surge protection with battery backup would handle both tasks. Is there a machine that meets both of these needs?

===

Per Aiden's comment:

APC SMT1500C 1440 VA 1000 Watts 8 Outlets UPS

This unit does have 8 outlets (in the back?) which will be enough. I'm semi woke now. Thanks.

 

[TheRealAlex]

Got this. Mac Pro uses a 1000 watt PSU (Gold or Titanium 80+ rated)

CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD PFC Sinewave UPS System, 1500VA/1000W, 12 Outlets, AVR, Mini Tower,Black

A mini-tower UPS with line interactive topology, the CyberPower PFC Sinewave CP1500PFCLCD provides battery backup (using sine wave output) and surge protection for desktop computers, workstations, networking devices, and home entertainment systems requiring active PFC power source compatibility. ...

www.amazon.com

Its not ever gonna get to 1000 watt Max Load unless you have a 28 Core CPU, After Burner card, and 2 Dual Radeon II GPU at Max load. That’s close to a $50,000 set up and they haven’t sold many Max Load Units.

 

[AidenShaw]

Avoid the cheap CyberPower units.

Ask yourself why they're priced at about a third of the high quality APC units.