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MP 7,1 Proper UPS for Mac Pro 2019? 2000+VA? (Update: MacPro Power Consumption test)
- Thread starter zhpenn
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I should have said "avoid cheap UPS systems". APC has some low priced tower units that I would avoid as well.
Cheap units usually cut short on the battery capacity and runtime.
Nearly all non-server class UPS systems need battery replacement after 2-3 years and often it is cheaper to replace the entire unit with the “cheaper” systems. If that’s the case, treat like a consumable item instead of long term with maintenance. The more expensive systems are much higher entry and (usually) cheaper and easier battery swaps.
If you have whole home (or at least partial) power backup, most of this is irrelevant. You need 20-30 seconds before the generator or backup system kicks in with an automatic transfer switch.
I’ve used the CyberPower PFCLCD 1500 and it’s decent enough for the purpose of keeping power long enough to shutdown safely. They’re much better suited for modem/router if you’re looking for actual runtime without power.
If you have whole home (or at least partial) power backup, most of this is irrelevant. You need 20-30 seconds before the generator or backup system kicks in with an automatic transfer switch.
I’ve used the CyberPower PFCLCD 1500 and it’s decent enough for the purpose of keeping power long enough to shutdown safely. They’re much better suited for modem/router if you’re looking for actual runtime without power.
I've had pretty good luck with my Tripp Lite 1500VA 900W UPS Battery Back Up, AVR
The USB signaling works and it gives me enough power to manually turn on the generator. The AVR is not great under some circumstances switching to battery, when it should not. The main thing is that it will signal the Mac Pro to shut down and give it enough time to do so.
The LCD readout is a nice check on power status (line voltage,) battery condition etc.
It's about ½ the price of an APC, which is likely a better unit.
The USB signaling works and it gives me enough power to manually turn on the generator. The AVR is not great under some circumstances switching to battery, when it should not. The main thing is that it will signal the Mac Pro to shut down and give it enough time to do so.
The LCD readout is a nice check on power status (line voltage,) battery condition etc.
It's about ½ the price of an APC, which is likely a better unit.
Just so. In the application under discussion the UPS will be supplying a voltage waveform for a switch-mode power supply to take bites of, the duration of said bites being governed by regulator circuitry. There's just no need to worry about the nature of the waveform. In choosing a UPS I would only ensure that the Hold Time/Transfer Time is under 10mS - it will be - and that the capacity is adequate. A big plus is if the UPS genuinely works with ViewPower or similar auto shutdown software, the UPS I am using with my iMac right now was sold as being ViewPower compatible, but in fact its USB socket is not connected! It doesn't matter to me, but might be disastrous for others.
The issue isn't whether or not it's a switching supply, but whether or not the PSU has active power factor correction.
CP1500PFCLCD
A mini-tower UPS with line interactive topology, the CyberPower PFC Sinewave CP1500PFCLCD provides battery backup (using sine wave output) and surge protection for desktop computers, workstations, networking devices, and home entertainment systems requiring active PFC power source compatibility...
www.cyberpowersystems.com
The issue isn't whether or not it's a switching supply, but whether or not the PSU has active power factor correction.
CP1500PFCLCD
A mini-tower UPS with line interactive topology, the CyberPower PFC Sinewave CP1500PFCLCD provides battery backup (using sine wave output) and surge protection for desktop computers, workstations, networking devices, and home entertainment systems requiring active PFC power source compatibility...
I use these units (CP1500PFCLCD), had many issues with APC endlessly alarming over nothing, also needing replacement batteries much sooner than necessary (I feel it is like inkjets where APC's profits are in replacing batteries).
The Cyberpower CP1500PFCLCD is a good unit and has lasted a long time without nagging me with annoying beeps like the APC's used to, I do notice it boosting whenever there is a low voltage event. Also runs well when there is a power loss. I have some 10+ year old Mac Pros running on these and no power supply damage.
My trick on buying is they always have a flash sale on these at Amazon around Black Friday/Cyber Monday for about $149 - so I stock up. I have 2 brand new ones sitting in reserve at all times.
Also, if you lose a monitor (not on battery) and want to shutdown, use Control-Eject - then keep hitting the return bar like a madman - it will save things, close dialog boxes etc and shutdown, even if you can't see anything. Has worked about 90% of the time I've had to use it.
FWIW same. I have multiple Cyberpower CP1500PFCLCD units, with MacPro 5,1's pushing a decade old, running with no problems. Usually use one unit per high-draw workstation, another for monitor, RAIDs, etc, and the whole house has a backup generator so it really only needs to work for about 10 seconds while generator kicks in.
I've noticed no problems. Yes I do treat them as consumable items and when the battery starts to die I just order another one. But I've had 0 problems, and MacOS has auto-detected these for years and will let you adjust how/when you want the computer to shutdown in System Prefs >> Energy Saver >> UPS.
I actively hate APC and have purchased their ugly, bulky, overpriced models in the past and also been annoyed by endless beeping and random pops. Albeit I have not carefully researched which units had these problems or why; they just got tossed into the boat anchors collection in basement and dropped off somewhere years ago.
B&H has sales on these at least twice per year and Amazon sometimes even more. You should change power surge protection after major fault or ~5 years anyway, so unit replacement isn’t a huge deal to me at this price point. They work well with Apple desktops in the past and no reason to think they will not in the future.
Please explain in more detail. I have been buying APC units for literally decades, and don't see any of these problems.
I have four 1500VA Smart-UPS units at home - some of them approaching 20 years old. I replace the batteries when prompted - and since the original datasheet said that the batteries have a three to five year life, I signed up for that when I bought them. Have never seen a "premature" battery replacement request - in fact five to six years is the usual schedule.
"Endless beeping"? Really? Explain. My home units will usually "chirp" (not "endless beeping") at about 07:25 each morning. It's so consistent that I assume that the power utility is switching something each morning, and the APC units notice the disturbance and chirp to let me know that there was a power issue. There's no switch to battery. (I can turn off the chirp with the supplied apps, but I'd really rather hear that an anomalous power event happened.)
In my lab at work I have about 16 to 20 APC units. Eight of the 5000VA 208v 30A units for bigger servers, and ten to twelve 2200VA 120v 20A units for smaller servers and network switches. Same thing - they just work, and every five years or so when a "replace battery" LED lights up I order a replacement battery (or batteries). I target for a couple of minutes of runtime - our power hits are mostly a few seconds outage when a transmission breaker pops and resets, or hours if something serious. "Serious" is rare, and I don't worry about it because the lab air conditioning is not on UPS - so no point in keeping the computers up if the air conditioning is off.
And I have no idea what you mean by "random pops".
APC consistently floats the battery too high, that way they can use a cheaper battery to meet a longer runtime. Batteries in an APC die after 2-3 years, which conveniently they can sell you a new one. Not only that, the overcharging causes outgassing at the end of life and results in battery swelling. The guy who manages the network closet showed us a rackmount unit where the battery swelled so that it was impossible to remove. I had one personally split a battery down the side and make a burning smell.
The last APC I bought, about three years ago, when falsely output shorts within a week of purchase and ended up causing far more power outages than it protected against.
APC is basically on the same tier as Cyberpower just with heavy marketing. If you walk into a shop and see APC on important stuff, you know they're amateurs. Eaton is a step up on the small units. Eaton and Liebert's on-line units are the real stuff.
We switched to a fleet of Eaton deskside units and have never had any issue.
That is not true for the last decade, since the EU required active PFC in computer power supplies. There is a transistor right after the rectifier that controls the phase of the supply current. The transistors serve to track current draw to the voltage sine wave. Use of a square wave UPS will stress these transistors and can cause premature failure, as they are not designed for transient operation.
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Categorically untrue, in my experience.
Four years and three months - still 100% with a 1.3kw load.
Put up, or shut up.
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Of course, you're showing an online model that is way out of the range of what is under discussion here to prove your point. I will say APC is better at the high end, >2000 VA online models. Go show me a deskside unit... I'll wait.
You also failed to make your point by misinterpreting a number. That's state of charge. SoC should be properly adjusted down as the battery ages, to avoid overcharging. You're basically claiming an iPhone will only show 80% in the battery gauge if it has an 80% wear level. Obviously it doesn't.
I'm not the only one who knows this
UPS battery expanded, overcharged? broken?
hi, I went on a 2 week vacation, and during the second day of my vacation, i lost connectivity to my desktop, which was strange, when i returned home, i noticed there was a screeching noise coming from my ups, the router and modem that were plugged into the ups were off i unplugged the ups...
For the latter point, we have a larger Eaton Powerware and that lets you select the float voltage from the front panel, specifically so you can make the runtime-longevity tradeoff yourself.
It's unconscionable that APC generates thousands of tons of toxic lead waste by purposely lowering the lifetime of their batteries.
While you're proud that you can get 5 years on a continuous duty online UPS, you apparently you don't know that the phone company's expected lifetime for their batteries are two decades. If you float them at the right voltage and don't put them in a car with vibration and heat, lead acids will last forever.
I'm sorry you have been swindled for decades and, in the classic clueless IT fashion, I feel sorry for your users who have to deal with your lack of knowledge.
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Proof? You said 2-3 years, I showed a system with over 4 years. You moved the goalposts with a "way out of range" claim. I've been talking about 1500VA to 3000VA Smart-UPS units - a 5000VA Smart-UPS is not "way out of range", it's just the next step up "in range".
APC is very good about recycling their batteries - they even include return shipping coupons for sending the old batteries to recycling centers. You've not only failed to justify your "2-3 year" claim, but you've moved the goalposts again with a recycling claim.
There have been many reports of MacBooks and swelling batteries. Do all MacBook batteries swell? No. Do all APC units suffer early battery failures? No. Enough said.
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Wrong. Swindled by marketing again. You showed an online UPS. That is fundamentally different than the offline UPS that the OP wants. They are totally different architectures, and they pose different constraints on the batteries.
Calling both "Smart-UPS" shows your inexperience. A Smart-UPS is a line-interactive (that's marketing in itself). A Smart-UPS RT is a online unit. Very different.
Go compare the prices.
Recycling creates a huge environmental impact. Look at Exide LA. They contaminated a neighborhood with lead dust emissions from a recycling plant. It's better not to ruin the batteries than to recycle them. And so I don't have to keep buying new batteries.
You're the one who's trying to justify wasteful practices with recycling.
The issue is actually the same in both cases, as I understand it. Excess float voltage as the battery degrades causes outgassing. In Apple's case, they aren't dropping the float voltage as the cell ages. In APC's consumer devices, they purposely overcharge the batteries.
The reason why Apple isn't swelling is because they probably secretly introduced a firmware update to stop it. Our Dells got a important BIOS update and one of the items is a modification to prevent battery swelling.
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I stand 100% by my assertion. APC is crap and only sold to those who don't know better.
Are you saying you made the right mistake?
Are you saying you made the right mistake?
lol i was joking. but ill report back in 2-3 years with my reviews
Well, I just replaced an 8 year old APC (BR1500G). I replaced that batteries in it once, with 3rd party batteries. When the display died, I began using it with trepidation. I replaced it with another APC UPS, this time a sine wave model (BR1500MS). Just got it yesterday.
Lou
Lou