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decksnap said:
It's funny because from what I've seen there is a lot of the opposite going on. Schools popping up all over the place offering 2 year design degrees and other such crap, that are basically teaching uncreative people how to use design software. Then these people get out of school thinking they are designers because they know how to use Quark.

This is a huge problem as of late. It seems like design is now the main choice of the "I'm not interested in anything and can't decide what I want to major in/do with my life, but hey design looks cool" people. As a result the market is oversaturated with a bunch of "designers" who have never been into any type of creative art before starting their design schooling. You can't teach creativity and originality.

Just my little rant...
 
Seeing as I am complete beginner... I have a couple questions.

Im an amateur web design, more of a coder with a desire to learn good design. Design is the weak point in my skillset. Typography is something I would like a little lesson in, as well as this grid method. If its what I think it is that could come in handy too.

Just looking for some sites to get started than maybe pick up a book or two. Anyone have any suggestions? :D
 
bwanac said:
Seeing as I am complete beginner... I have a couple questions.

Im an amateur web design, more of a coder with a desire to learn good design. Design is the weak point in my skillset. Typography is something I would like a little lesson in, as well as this grid method. If its what I think it is that could come in handy too.

Just looking for some sites to get started than maybe pick up a book or two. Anyone have any suggestions? :D

A great typography book to check out is "The Elements of Typographic Style"
by Robert Bringhurst. It's full of usefull info and also very well written, makes reading about type interesting, even a little poetic.
 
decksnap said:
It's funny because from what I've seen there is a lot of the opposite going on. Schools popping up all over the place offering 2 year design degrees and other such crap, that are basically teaching uncreative people how to use design software. Then these people get out of school thinking they are designers because they know how to use Quark.

faustfire said:
This is a huge problem as of late. It seems like design is now the main choice of the "I'm not interested in anything and can't decide what I want to major in/do with my life, but hey design looks cool" people. As a result the market is oversaturated with a bunch of "designers" who have never been into any type of creative art before starting their design schooling. You can't teach creativity and originality.

Just my little rant...


Same feeling here. Computers are cheaper and graphics software have flooded the market. I would not be surprised these days to see try-out versions of Photoshop inside kids cereal boxes instead of toys. I have to believe that the design market will correct itself over time when people start figuring out that just knowing the software is not enough to make a living as a designer. The design market has gone through up and downs like this before just not for the same reasons.



 
Make your first job a non-design job prepping files for a commercial printer. Get to know the printing process inside out. Put yourself in the position of having to work on less-than-perfect designed jobs that barely make it through the pre-flight process. Learn to fix those jobs. See what great and terrible design look and feel like first hand. Learn to use Photoshop, InDesign, QuarkXPress, Illustrator, Freehand, Word, etc as a car mechanic would use a wrench and screwdriver.

Then, start out at the bottom and learn your way up an agency. Layout is first, your design gets implemented as you interpret other designers work, adapting it to layout reworks. Then, a few years down the line after you've sat through more meetings than you are comfortable with, you will be given small design jobs. OH! While you are at it, take some creative writing and copywriting courses. Learn to write effective copy. You will come to notice that most design is driven by creative directors who, 9 out of 10 times, come from the copywriting side of things.

That's about it. My qualifications? I own this agency: http://www.rtmadvertising.com

Good luck and look me up when you are ready!

Bob
 
faustfire said:
A great typography book to check out is "The Elements of Typographic Style"
by Robert Bringhurst. It's full of usefull info and also very well written, makes reading about type interesting, even a little poetic.

Thanks.. I checked and my school library has it so maybe at work tomorrow Ill go through it. I do work in the library and am doing web "assistance" for them, so Ill be training myself on the job! :D
 
bwanac said:
Seeing as I am complete beginner... I have a couple questions.

Im an amateur web design, more of a coder with a desire to learn good design. Design is the weak point in my skillset. Typography is something I would like a little lesson in, as well as this grid method. If its what I think it is that could come in handy too.

Just looking for some sites to get started than maybe pick up a book or two. Anyone have any suggestions? :D


One piece of advice if I may. Books are fine but they are often not enough for most people. Seek out a good teacher. Learning design is about interaction, feedback and communication, something you can not get from a book. A good teacher or mentor can make a world of difference.


 
I hear ya... its just that when school starts up again I wont have time for all that good stuff being an engineering major and all. But maybe I can get some feed back from the graphic designer I work with. See if he really knows his stuff or not (he's a new guy so even though Im a student I get to tease him).
 
uburoibob said:
You will come to notice that most design is driven by creative directors who, 9 out of 10 times, come from the copywriting side of things.


Some of the most creative people I have worked with are copywriters and some of the very best creative work is the result of a team, an art director and a copywriter. Although I would say from what I have seen, CDs are a 50/50 mix of copywriters and art directors.

 
bwanac said:
I hear ya... its just that when school starts up again I wont have time for all that good stuff being an engineering major and all. But maybe I can get some feed back from the graphic designer I work with. See if he really knows his stuff or not (he's a new guy so even though Im a student I get to tease him).

No design classes at your school?



 
Make a sketchbook/scrapbook

Take a book everywhere you go. Keep a note of everything that inspires you. Cut stuff out of magazines/newspapers and keep them.

When it comes to you designing somthing, use this to jog your creative juices.

I'm not saying copy........ but nothing is original anyway.
 
I cannot decide between...

Don't stick in the same job for more than 2 years.

or...

Don't be precious.
 
i start my graphic design AAS in 2 weeks, yay. thats the reason i got my macbook pro in the first place. this should be a fun two years.
 
i disagree with the reccomendation of bringhurst as the way to learn typography. bringhurst is an excellent reference for typography (in fact, it is THE reference), but trying to use it to learn type is like trying to learn english from a dictionary. i suggest either thinking with type by ellen lupton or a type primer by john kane as excellent guides to understanding how and why type works, as opposed to just a reference.

the two absolute best pieces of advice that i can give about being a designer:

make exceptional design

keep taking chances

unfortunately, you can not always do both (or either) all the time and for every client and project, which is why my last piece of advice is

be more than one you

sometimes you need to be the conservative you, sometimes you need to be the wild and creative you, some times you need some of each. until you work only for yourself and are your only client and answer to nobody but you (which is extrememely rare, if possibly at all) then you must learn to be flexible and compromise what you want to do with what you need to do.

and as far as "art" school vs. a more vocational program goes, learning software is easy, learning how to be intellectually engaged in your work is not. both are important. one takes a few months, one takes a lifetime. be prepared to spend the right amount of time on each.
 
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ATD said:
I remember the days when designers were tying to decide if they needed to learn how to use a computer at all. It may seem like a no brainer today but 20 years ago it was not clear where this was leading to. Computers back then were really really slow and very underpowered, it was still faster to do a lot of stuff by hand. Some designers decided not pick up computer skills. I still know a few that have managed to hang on to a career that way but not many.

You mean that hand cut Rubylith is a dinosaur technology now???;)

I went back to school long after my undergrad to pick up the computer skills. Now I feel fortunate to have the hand rendering and comping skills I picked up in my undergrad art classes. I work with many young designers who have no pen/pencil/marker to paper skills whatsoever. They can't draw jack without a computer in front of them and something to trace over. To all the youngsters out there - learn to draw by imagination and hand first, then move to the machines.
 
aricher said:
I work with many young designers who have no pen/pencil/marker to paper skills whatsoever. They can't draw jack without a computer in front of them and something to trace over. To all the youngsters out there - learn to draw by imagination and hand first, then move to the machines.

Amen.

And in my art school, the ones who were the best at painting, sketching, etc turned into the best designers. It is NOT about the software.
 
Well all the basics have been covered here, I'd say if your serious about this as a career there is one thing you can do

Grow a thick skin now
As mentioned before, the market is over saturated with designers right now. It's very fierce competition for junior positions, be prepared to have your portfolio ripped to shreds by creative directors.

Be prepared to do up 12 comps for one client just because "this isn't quite what we were thinking" despite the fact that you've followed their notes to a tea.

As rewording as this career can be, it can also be extremely frustrating and leave you feel completely drained.

But if your serious about this career you just have to forge on and eventually you will make it.
 
aricher said:
You mean that hand cut Rubylith is a dinosaur technology now???;)

I went back to school long after my undergrad to pick up the computer skills. Now I feel fortunate to have the hand rendering and comping skills I picked up in my undergrad art classes. I work with many young designers who have no pen/pencil/marker to paper skills whatsoever. They can't draw jack without a computer in front of them and something to trace over. To all the youngsters out there - learn to draw by imagination and hand first, then move to the machines.


LOL, the only piece of high tech that's still with us from those days is the telephone. My next area of study is going to relearn how to paint. I would not be the lease bit surprised if we see a major backlash to the computer generated look of design in favor of design that feels hand done.

 
ATD said:
I would not be the lease bit surprised if we see a major backlash to the computer generated look of design in favor of design that feels hand done.

That backlash began a few years ago, hand drawn (often badly, because it's cool :rolleyes: ) with felt tips etc etc.
 
iGav said:
That backlash began a few years ago, hand drawn (often badly, because it's cool :rolleyes: ) with felt tips etc etc.

I hear ya, makes a lot of my designing easier as clients will just see the mock up sketches and be like "ooo, use that!" and then they sign off on it. I shrug and collect my paycheck :D

Oh and I was expecting someone would suggest "Don't" :p
 
ATD said:
I would not be the lease bit surprised if we see a major backlash to the computer generated look of design in favor of design that feels hand done.

this has already happened in the garment business. Many of the more stylish firms have adopted a simpler, "made-by-hand" look, Abercrombie & Fitch being a good example.

A&F is the biggest ripoff in the world, btw...$35 for a screen-printed tee that I know for a fact cost them $1.25 to make...sheesh
 
ATD said:
LOL, the only piece of high tech that's still with us from those days is the telephone. My next area of study is going to relearn how to paint. I would not be the lease bit surprised if we see a major backlash to the computer generated look of design in favor of design that feels hand done.


Yes, and computer-generated hand-drawnish designs. :)
 
The Past said:
Yes, and computer-generated hand-drawnish designs. :)


;) We look back but I don't think anyone here wants to give up their computers just yet. I worked that way in the early part of my career (BC, before computers), I like the new way better.

 
ATD is spot on...I would add, BE PATIENT...so many new kids rush their work and it shows, I personally tend to put some designs away for a day or two and then have a fresh look at them....ANY design can use improvement....
take it as far as you can and then and only then present it....you will know the time when you have reached the point you feel good about it.
R
 
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