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Purchasing used Mac Pro 2009 or Mac Mini 2012?
- Thread starter Ebenezum
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Do you know off hand if the dual cpu trays from a 2009 and 2010 are interchangeable?
Even with the delidded cpu's the heatsink screws are different than that of the quad. With the quad you can't over tighten the screws, with the dual cpu you have to do the same amount of turns or it might not sit right. Afaik
The dual CPU daughter boards from the 2009 and 2010 Mac Pro's are not interchangeable.
The single CPU boards can be swapped, as long as you have the 5,1 firmware installed, although I believe that the fans go ballistic. There is no fix for this, as far as I know.
In short you're going to need to upgrade those processors yourself.
As BillyBobBongo stated above, the dual CPU boards between the 2009 and 2010 MacPros are not interchangeable. The SMC firmware between the two boards are different. There is a firmware upgrade (EFI Boot) to upgrade the MacPro 4,1 to a 5,1 but that firmware upgrade does not update the SMC firmware resident on these boards. It is not a direct way to do the firmware update to make a 4,1 MacPro into a 5,1 MacPro but there is a thread that tells you how you can do this.
Anyway... there is a more in-depth discussion regarding this somewhere in this forum so in short, the answer is no. Below is what EFI/SMC firmwares are available for the MacPro...
Mac Pro 4,1 SMC version is 1.39f5 whereas Mac Pro 5,1 SMC is version 1.39f11. As far as I know there is no mechanism in place to update the SMC firmware in Mac Pro 4,1.
Putting a 5,1 CPU board into a 4,1 will cause the case fans to run erratically due to SMC firmware mismatch between the CPU board and motherboard.
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I know that is possible but I meant a replacement for hard drive carrier, I don't need 4 hard drives so installing SSD there is the easiest and cheapest way to mount the SSD.
In the future I might install PCIe SSD but for now this arrangement is sufficient.
I see. I've already flashed my 4,1 to a 5,1. That's how I put a single hex cpu in. Actually I think what I meant to ask was can I put a dual cpu 4,1 board in a 4,1 that has a single cpu board? Do the single and dual cpu boards for the 4,1 use the same SMC?As BillyBobBongo stated above, the dual CPU boards between the 2009 and 2010 MacPros are not interchangeable. The SMC firmware between the two boards are different. There is a firmware upgrade (EFI Boot) to upgrade the MacPro 4,1 to a 5,1 but that firmware upgrade does not update the SMC firmware resident on these boards. It is not a direct way to do the firmware update to make a 4,1 MacPro into a 5,1 MacPro but there is a thread that tells you how you can do this.
Anyway... there is a more in-depth discussion regarding this somewhere in this forum so in short, the answer is no. Below is what EFI/SMC firmwares are available for the MacPro...
Mac Pro 4,1 SMC version is 1.39f5 whereas Mac Pro 5,1 SMC is version 1.39f11. As far as I know there is no mechanism in place to update the SMC firmware in Mac Pro 4,1.
Putting a 5,1 CPU board into a 4,1 will cause the case fans to run erratically due to SMC firmware mismatch between the CPU board and motherboard.
as h9826790 stated, yes you can use the 4,1 dual processor sled in a 4,1 single processor tower. They have the same SMC firmware therefore they are interchangeable. Good luck finding an available 4,1 dual processor sled for sale... if you do they will most likely be expensive. I did see one for sale a few months ago for around $500 but lately if I do see one for sale it's been north of $700... :/
Processor upgrade for the dual processor 4,1 sled can be done but you need to use de-lidded processors. There are installation DIYs on YouTube detailing processor swaps for these processor trays.
Update:
After testing i7 Mac Mini 2012 and concluding it was somewhat better than Mac Mini 2014 I managed to find a nice 8 core 2.26 Mac Pro 2009 with 8GB of RAM and Geforce Gt 120 for 600€. After testing it I was impressed since it handled everything without breaking a sweat unlike Mini 2014 so I decided to purchase it a few days ago. I also managed to sell Mini for almost the same price I originally bought it so I can afford some upgrades.
I also tested it with several different diagnostic software and it passed all the tests. Internally it is in good condition, very little dust and no sign of any damage. Outside case has two minor scratches which are hard to see without a flashlight. It seems previous owner treated it well.
I am aware that processor upgrade is difficult compared to 4 core model but that isn't a issue because current processors are much better than the Mini in tests and its likely I don't even need faster processors for a while.
I ordered a USB3 card, more RAM and mounting bracket for my SSD and I am certain I made the right choice!
Very nice, and a good price! I have the exact same model; got it for free and fixed this little hardware issue it had - with $10 worth of parts. You can buy a 12-core upgrade for it (insane and not unnecessary amount of power) for about $425; it's basically a daughterboard replacement. However, I can also agree that two quad-core, 2.26Ghz CPUs are just fine. This machine still beats every Mac Mini there is, in terms of benchmarks. It would be cool to have a Mac Mini, but they are expensive for what they are (even used), and they lack graphical power.
Your Mac Pro will last you a while, as even the 2006 models are useful in 2016. I upgraded mine with my existing 250GB SSD and then 32GB of RAM. Considering how cheaply I got the RAM, I could sell the OG Apple-installed RAM it came with for a good percentage of what I paid for the 32GB.
If you are hungry for graphics power now, you could consider upgrading the GPU - however, that, in itself, takes a bit of research and lots of careful consideration.
I agree that Mac Mini are quite expensive compared to specks.
I'm fairly certain current processors will be sufficient for my needs for the time being, I see no need to upgrade them.
I'm still waiting for the USB3 card, RAM and SSD bracket. They should arrive next week and I'm certain Mac Pro will be much faster with them installed.
I have been thinking GPU, Gt 120 is slow but on the other hand not all of the software I use benefit from GPU so I'm not certain if faster GPU is necessary. Mainly I'm concerned about the age of Gt 120, if it breaks replacement isn't easy. Maybe if I would purchase a cheap new GPU and keep Gt 120 in storage in case I need to troubleshoot Mac in the future?
Since I am using Mavericks according to my research possible reasonable modern, compatible and relatively cheap (max price 200€) GPU:s are:
Nvidia
Gt 610
Gt 660 Ti
Gt 680 (very hard to find new and used models aren't much cheaper in EU), expensive
Gt 740
Gt 760
AMD
7950 (very hard to find new and used models aren't much cheaper in EU), expensive
R9 280
Maybe I have missed some models that are both compatible and relatively cheap?
I would prefer new card because of warranty (I don't like taking gambles) and its impossible to know how well used card have been handled. Also it would be preferable to have a card that works with stock OS drivers.
I guess I was very lucky to recently find an EVGA GTX680 2GB for £110 on eBay! I didn't realise they were so rare.
Definitely hang onto that card. I keep around a spare Apple card in case I ever need to troubleshoot my Mac Pro. It came in handy when I had to check to see what the boot process was like when my '06 model wasn't booting correctly. I don't care about boot screens usually, but if I need to troubleshoot the Mac, it's handy to have the boot screen and boot selector.
One of the best budget cards for the Mac Pro is the Radeon 5770; there was actually a Mac version made, but you could always get a cheaper non-Mac one that's been flashed, or even use a non-flashed one. You can get one of these things for $60-100, depending on whether or not it's flashed. Of course, a little more money could get you an even better version of this card, but this one is still a great starter. The other is the 8800GT 1GB, but it's nowhere as common as the 512MB version (which is not enough VRAM in my opinion).
I think there's this popular budget card... GT 210? I believe that people have been using those in their Mac Pros as well, and you may want to check that out. The bottom line is that getting a card for a Mac Pro requires a bit of research, so I would check around online to see which card will be right for you, and perhaps contact someone who is more knowledgeable about them than I am. A user here, 'Fl0rian' (not sure if I got the '1337' characters correct), has a list of cards that either work fine, don't work, or have select issues - in Mac Pros.
Lastly, you should consider noise. I got a GTX 660 specifically with the ASUS CU II cooler, since it's practically silent. My 8800GT 1GB was a leaf-blower, and my 5770 was pretty loud - however, probably just because its fan was worn out.
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Someone said that delidding the CPUs is easy, but I realized that it costs about $160 per 6-core Xeon (if I am not mistaken), and, at the end of the day, it would save you only about $100 to do it yourself. That seems like a lot, but there is a risk of damaging the CPUs... and it's also easier to have someone else do it for you at that $100 more.
One of the best budget cards for the Mac Pro is the Radeon 5770; there was actually a Mac version made, but you could always get a cheaper non-Mac one that's been flashed, or even use a non-flashed one. You can get one of these things for $60-100, depending on whether or not it's flashed. Of course, a little more money could get you an even better version of this card, but this one is still a great starter. The other is the 8800GT 1GB, but it's nowhere as common as the 512MB version (which is not enough VRAM in my opinion).
I think there's this popular budget card... GT 210? I believe that people have been using those in their Mac Pros as well, and you may want to check that out. The bottom line is that getting a card for a Mac Pro requires a bit of research, so I would check around online to see which card will be right for you, and perhaps contact someone who is more knowledgeable about them than I am. A user here, 'Fl0rian' (not sure if I got the '1337' characters correct), has a list of cards that either work fine, don't work, or have select issues - in Mac Pros.
Lastly, you should consider noise. I got a GTX 660 specifically with the ASUS CU II cooler, since it's practically silent. My 8800GT 1GB was a leaf-blower, and my 5770 was pretty loud - however, probably just because its fan was worn out.
[doublepost=1455912770][/doublepost]
Someone said that delidding the CPUs is easy, but I realized that it costs about $160 per 6-core Xeon (if I am not mistaken), and, at the end of the day, it would save you only about $100 to do it yourself. That seems like a lot, but there is a risk of damaging the CPUs... and it's also easier to have someone else do it for you at that $100 more.
I totally agree. You never know when you might have to troubleshoot a graphics-related issue that may come up down the road... having a spare graphics card on hand that works with your computer is a smart thing to do...
I'm along the same view here... unless you have experience delidding CPUs it would be a wiser move just to pay someone who provides this service to do it.
Was that a new card with warranty? I haven't seen a new 680 sold for a long time and those that were new are outside my budget...
Good points, thank you.
I have considered 5770 and GT 210 but I am not certain if they provide enough improvement compared to GT 120? Price considered GT 740 (about 90€ including postage) seems much better assuming it works without problems...
Unfortunately I can't find user named Fl0rian despite trying different searches, maybe if you could remember a thread where he/she has posted?
Don´t forget these points which seem to be very important for you:
1) The classic MacPro is a big tower, but the last really good designed Mac. All the stuff you have to put all around the mac mini will easily find place INSIDE the tower: TimeMachine, external disks easily to install into the MP, raids no problem inside, …. not a million of cables around the MacMini. NO octopus-syndrome like with a MacMini or "new" MacPros….
2) servicability: PERFECT! exchanging disks takes 60 seconds, the same for RAM or Video CArds, every thinkable Service is really easy to do grace to the perfect modular industrial design - the MacPro is perhaps the only machine with (literally) professional design apple ever produced.
3) Upgradability: PERFECT! even the CPUs are easy to exchange - if you respect some advices easy to find here or in the internet. Even delidding is easy. There are nearly every possible 3rd party products to help you upgrade your MacPro for very low prices (for example inserting a PCI-Card with 4 USB 3.0 connections takes 2 minutes and costs just 25 USD). The difference between 2008-2009 models (4,1) and 2010-2012 Models (5,1) is nearly nothing more than modern Firmware. You can upgrade easily and for free from 4,1 to 5,1 !
4) Budget-friendly: PERFECT! You can always upgrade as you like and when you can afford it. You own already a SSD - so purchase just one of the available bootable PCIe Cards, put in the SSD and the MP runs. Same for RAM. You can adapt the classic MP anytime you have to according your needs.
5) Future-proof: PERFECT! Members of this forum arrived to upgrade their cMP putting even the most powerful LAST MODELS of nMP in the dust! AND: The classic MP doesn´t suffer from the GPU-issues of ALL new MP (apple refused to admit the problem for two years and now has silently started a"extended repair program) . Classic MP are more reliable. So - the cMP will not only be usable another 2-3 Years, it will last a reliable and easy-to-adapt-to-your-needs-machine for at least another 5-6 years. It will save you a lot of money - and "it just works!" ….
Pretty sure a 5770 is gonna be better than a GT 120. However, look up ____ vs. ____ and you'll get results from tests.
The list @PowerMac G4 MDD is talking about is here: http://www.tonymacx86.com/graphics/171291-radeon-compatibility-guide-ati-amd-graphics-cards.html
Note that it's Hackintosh specific & AMD only, but most issues apply to genuine MacPros as well. Stay away from cards that say OOB=No, the others should be fine (as long as no issues are listed).
On the Nvidia side, pretty much anything works when using the Web Drivers.
Note that it's Hackintosh specific & AMD only, but most issues apply to genuine MacPros as well. Stay away from cards that say OOB=No, the others should be fine (as long as no issues are listed).
On the Nvidia side, pretty much anything works when using the Web Drivers.
Very good points but a bit redundant since I already purchased 2009 Mac Pro...
According to test results I found 5770 is between 30-50% faster depending on the software used. Clearly better than GT 120 but I prefer something that gives more value for money.
Thank you for the list, very informative. Maybe it should be linked from the Mac Pro forum so it would be easily available?
I have to do some more research before I select suitable GPU.
After doing research I decided to purchase Radeon R9 270X, according to reviews it has nice combination of speed in relatively cheap price. 270X and 2x6 power cables cost 140€.
While GTX 760 and Radeon 280 would be somewhat faster they would be about 40-50% more expensive and for my needs 270X should be more than sufficient.
While GTX 760 and Radeon 280 would be somewhat faster they would be about 40-50% more expensive and for my needs 270X should be more than sufficient.
Some 760 cards are very futureproof!
I purchased a certain MSI GtX 760 model with 2 miniDP ports (!) and 2 GB which supports even a 5k Monitor@60 Hz.... You can find them sometimes for less than 200EUR.. I purchased it for a little bit more with modified EFI @ macvideocards. It is the less expensive videoCard that supports 4k and 5 k monitors at 60Hz... And it is extremely silent as well ( have a look at the reviews)...
I don't doubt it but for my needs 270X should be sufficient, I don't need 4k nor 5k support and based on the reviews the difference in speed between 270X and GTX 760 isn't significant enough to justify spending extra € for it...
I finally got everything I was waiting for and installed 24 Gb of RAM, 270X and 250 Gb SSD.
Mac Pro wasn't slow before but now it simply flies! I seriously doubt I need to do anymore upgrades for a few years.
Thanks for all the comments and advice!
Mac Pro wasn't slow before but now it simply flies! I seriously doubt I need to do anymore upgrades for a few years.
Thanks for all the comments and advice!