Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Question about Lenses and F/stop #
- Thread starter disdat
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
If considering used cameras, I'd get a 20D instead of a 10D.
We have a 10D in our office, which I used a few times before buying my own camera...a 20D. In comparing/contrasting the two, in addition to the 20D being 8MP (vs 6), its startup time is essentially zero, whereas the 10D was notorious for being very slow.
Update: 0.2 sec versus 2.5 seconds
-hh
Not that I disagree with the recommendation, but how important is startup time really? Just leave the camera on when you intend to shoot. Or when you're turning it on, turn it on before removing the lens cap, putting the strap over your neck, bringing the camera up to your face and pointing it towards your subject. All that's going to take the better part of 2.5 seconds anyway.
The dust thing is overblown. I wouldn't worry about it. You're likely to start out with just a lens or two and you'll be FINE. Don't worry about the dust.
The more important issue is the AF on the 350d versus the 400d. I think the AF IQ is way better on the 400d. That means more keepers. To me that's worth the price difference.
In the end, you'll easily dwarf the cost of the body with the cost of good glass. I've done so already with just one lens!
Yeah, I don't see startup time as having any kind of bearing on a purchase at all. I start my camera when I'm going to shoot, then leave it on. I don't think I've ever been faced with a situation where my camera didn't turn on fast enough to get a shot.
I'm glad the conversation finally got around to explaining about the aperture settings in depth. 
I would push a Nikon alternative to the Canons, such as the D80 or a used/overstock D70, but that's just my Nikon/Nikkor bias. Honestly, I don't like the D40(x) or D50 because they don't use CompactFlash and they have no weight. Here's my 2 cents on how to hold the camera:
Put your left hand under the lens. If it's a big lens, move your hand out further to better support the weight. Well thought out lenses (i.e. Nikon or Cannon lenses, not Sigma/Tamron/others) have the focus dial or other features right there where you'd naturally put that hand. Your left hand should really be what's holdingthe camera.
Your right hand holds the grip, with your index finger over the "trigger". The right thumb is positioned at the back/top of the camera so you can quickly adjust settings (this is why I love my D70--the settings are all right there.) The other fingers will fall where they want to, over the front of the camera.
When you need to review photos, or fidget with the menus or something, move your left hand to the left grip (i.e. so that it curls around on the left side of the camera), and use both thumbs to navigate menus, pictures, etc. If it's a heavy lens, hold the camera up by the lens with your left hand, and do all the button-punching with your right hand.
I would push a Nikon alternative to the Canons, such as the D80 or a used/overstock D70, but that's just my Nikon/Nikkor bias. Honestly, I don't like the D40(x) or D50 because they don't use CompactFlash and they have no weight. Here's my 2 cents on how to hold the camera:
Put your left hand under the lens. If it's a big lens, move your hand out further to better support the weight. Well thought out lenses (i.e. Nikon or Cannon lenses, not Sigma/Tamron/others) have the focus dial or other features right there where you'd naturally put that hand. Your left hand should really be what's holdingthe camera.
Your right hand holds the grip, with your index finger over the "trigger". The right thumb is positioned at the back/top of the camera so you can quickly adjust settings (this is why I love my D70--the settings are all right there.) The other fingers will fall where they want to, over the front of the camera.
When you need to review photos, or fidget with the menus or something, move your left hand to the left grip (i.e. so that it curls around on the left side of the camera), and use both thumbs to navigate menus, pictures, etc. If it's a heavy lens, hold the camera up by the lens with your left hand, and do all the button-punching with your right hand.
Once you get to a near-instant start, it's all peachy. But don't forget the point and shooters which have their little intro video and sound, all of which takes forever to load up!
Sorry for my delay in replying.
Overall, I think it has a lot to do with one's style of shooting, including the subject.
In general, I find that I turn my camera off "a lot", as it is the old school way of conserving power. Its probably not as important these days as digital cameras have become less power hungry, but as a result, I can shoot for quite awhile off of a single battery set because of less time burning the display, etc.
However, what it really came about from was from cameras that had "auto sleep" functions ... when waiting on a wildife subject for a particular behavior to manifest, an auto-sleep with a longer startup time = missed shots.
In general, I'll keep the camera on while I'm shooting a sequence, but when I'm changing to a new subject, or looking for a new composition, it might be only 15 seconds, or it might be 15 minutes. As such, my habit is to always shut down to prevent accidentally leaving it on, then once I find the next subject & composition, snap it on, fine-tune the framing and shoot.
Overall, I wouldn't have mentioned it, except that I did test-drive the 10D before buying my 20D and I noticed that for how I tended to shoot, the extra 2sec startup time was noticable. Perhaps a lot of it is that with wildlife subjects, I've learned to be very fast to raise, compose & shoot in order to get those "grab" shots.
...and if nothing else, when you're taking portrait photos of family members, they hate to wait.
-hh
Hello again, guys. Thank you all for your advice!
I narrowed my choice to the XTi finally. Besides the D40 and XT, I seriously considered the D80. I loved the feel of it, and I was intrigued with Nikon! But I found it awkward to look at the top LCD for settings. My hand(s) felt twisted. I like that the LCD is on the back of the XTi, and it felt more comfortable.
Plus there was the additional $200 for the D80. That was definitely an issue.
So, now comes the choice of lenses! If you can believe it, it's been more traumatic than choosing the camera!
So, here are my thoughts. Mind you, I don't have a lot to spend, and as it is, I am pushing my budget pretty far. I am hoping for about $800 or so for lenses, but I have a feeling it will be more.
I like to shoot outdoor nature (backyard bird feeders, etc) and I love macro.
I realize I will have to wait for a prime macro, and I intend to get one in the future.
So for now, I really need a walk-around kit replacement and a zoom.
I am on the fence about immediately getting the nifty fifty, but I will eventually add it to my collection for sure, since it is so inexpensive and useful.
For the zoom, I think I will go with the $550 Canon 70-300mm f/4-5.6 IS USM lens. It fits my budget and I am a newbie. I really like the IS and I have read many favorable reviews.
The walk-around lens is the one that I am confused on.
**Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8-4.5 Macro $350. This isn't a TRUE macro. The macro is 1:2.3 and focus distance is 8 inches. Not the best, but it might satisfy me until I get a prime.
**Tamron 17-50mm f/2.8 Di II for $420. Definitely not as good with macro as the Sigma. 1:4.5 and 10.6 inches for focus distance. It is a faster lens, but will it suit my needs?
**Then there is the Canon EF 28-105mm f/3.5-4.5 II USM (no IS) for $236. This didn't get great reviews, but it is cheap. Pretty slow, and I figure it shouldn't even be on my list, except for price.
Anything else?
I have been reading reviews and forum posts like mad, and I am learning a lot about what to look for.
I have been reading the post on this board about "posting your gear" and it has been helpful, but confusing at the same time.
Thank you all!
I narrowed my choice to the XTi finally. Besides the D40 and XT, I seriously considered the D80. I loved the feel of it, and I was intrigued with Nikon! But I found it awkward to look at the top LCD for settings. My hand(s) felt twisted. I like that the LCD is on the back of the XTi, and it felt more comfortable.
Plus there was the additional $200 for the D80. That was definitely an issue.
So, now comes the choice of lenses! If you can believe it, it's been more traumatic than choosing the camera!
So, here are my thoughts. Mind you, I don't have a lot to spend, and as it is, I am pushing my budget pretty far. I am hoping for about $800 or so for lenses, but I have a feeling it will be more.
I like to shoot outdoor nature (backyard bird feeders, etc) and I love macro.
I realize I will have to wait for a prime macro, and I intend to get one in the future.
So for now, I really need a walk-around kit replacement and a zoom.
I am on the fence about immediately getting the nifty fifty, but I will eventually add it to my collection for sure, since it is so inexpensive and useful.
For the zoom, I think I will go with the $550 Canon 70-300mm f/4-5.6 IS USM lens. It fits my budget and I am a newbie. I really like the IS and I have read many favorable reviews.
The walk-around lens is the one that I am confused on.
**Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8-4.5 Macro $350. This isn't a TRUE macro. The macro is 1:2.3 and focus distance is 8 inches. Not the best, but it might satisfy me until I get a prime.
**Tamron 17-50mm f/2.8 Di II for $420. Definitely not as good with macro as the Sigma. 1:4.5 and 10.6 inches for focus distance. It is a faster lens, but will it suit my needs?
**Then there is the Canon EF 28-105mm f/3.5-4.5 II USM (no IS) for $236. This didn't get great reviews, but it is cheap. Pretty slow, and I figure it shouldn't even be on my list, except for price.
Anything else?
I have been reading reviews and forum posts like mad, and I am learning a lot about what to look for.
I have been reading the post on this board about "posting your gear" and it has been helpful, but confusing at the same time.
Thank you all!
There are a lot of options, so it's definitely confusing. Here are some more:
Sigma 24-70 f/2.8
Canon 17-40 f/4
Sigma 18-50 f/2.8
You could also go wide and get the Tokina 12-24 and the Canon 50 f/1.8.
The Sigma 17-70 would be a nice compromise lens, but it's not as good at macro as a macro lens, it's not as wide aperture as the constant f/2.8 lenses, it's not built like an L lens... another option for macro is getting something older than will only manually focus on the XTi. You could save some money that way, potentially.
Sigma 24-70 f/2.8
Canon 17-40 f/4
Sigma 18-50 f/2.8
You could also go wide and get the Tokina 12-24 and the Canon 50 f/1.8.
The Sigma 17-70 would be a nice compromise lens, but it's not as good at macro as a macro lens, it's not as wide aperture as the constant f/2.8 lenses, it's not built like an L lens... another option for macro is getting something older than will only manually focus on the XTi. You could save some money that way, potentially.
UPdate: Camera and Lens Purchase
Hello again,
I finally decided to go with the Canon XTi. It was a tough decision, and I was very close to getting the D80, but in the end, the choice of Canon lenses won out!
So, along with the XTi, I ordered
Tamron 17-50mm f/2.8
Canon 50mm f/1.8
UV filter for 50mm lens
2gb CF card
Once I get used to the camera, in a couple of months, I will order the Canon 100mm Macro lens (dying for this lens) and possibly soon, the Canon 70-300mm f/4-5.6 IS lens)
So, I am waiting for UPS to deliver my package today!
thanks everyone for all the advice. I have learned a lot here, and will continue to lurk!
Hello again,
I finally decided to go with the Canon XTi. It was a tough decision, and I was very close to getting the D80, but in the end, the choice of Canon lenses won out!
So, along with the XTi, I ordered
Tamron 17-50mm f/2.8
Canon 50mm f/1.8
UV filter for 50mm lens
2gb CF card
Once I get used to the camera, in a couple of months, I will order the Canon 100mm Macro lens (dying for this lens) and possibly soon, the Canon 70-300mm f/4-5.6 IS lens)
So, I am waiting for UPS to deliver my package today!
thanks everyone for all the advice. I have learned a lot here, and will continue to lurk!
What!?! I'm sorry, but when did Canon lenses beat out Nikon's? I mean, they're pretty much identical right?
I'm not saying your decision was wrong, I just think that what you've said may not have been completely accurate (to your own feelings? camera feel is very important too).
No, not identical for my needs.
The Nikon 105mm Macro lens is way out of my price range. Yes, I realize that some of you guys think it is no big deal to drop thousands on a new lens, but $800 for a lens is too extravagant for me, when the 100mm Canon lens will be perfectly suitable for me at $500. Yes, I realize that there is no image stabilization, but $300 could go a long way toward another new lens or accessories.
I did hold both cameras, and they both were perfectly fine. If there were a cheaper Nikon macro lens, the decision might have gone the other way, but then who knows.
Now that I have the XTi, I am glad I made the decision, even though I am still in a fog about how to use it, but that will eventually come in time.
The Nikon 105mm Macro lens is way out of my price range. Yes, I realize that some of you guys think it is no big deal to drop thousands on a new lens
, but $800 for a lens is too extravagant for me, when the 100mm Canon lens will be perfectly suitable for me at $500. Yes, I realize that there is no image stabilization, but $300 could go a long way toward another new lens or accessories.I did hold both cameras, and they both were perfectly fine. If there were a cheaper Nikon macro lens, the decision might have gone the other way, but then who knows.
Now that I have the XTi, I am glad I made the decision, even though I am still in a fog about how to use it, but that will eventually come in time.
I'm curious about this statement. I've had my camera about a month and I'm apparently on about 5.5k images. Does the warranty cover this if my shutter dies? Or is this considered normal wear and tear or something?
The 10D would power-save and auto-shutoff. That 2.5 second startup time is a bitch. I didn't use the camera enough to learn if you could disable the auto-shutoff, however.
Start-up time is very important, it's the difference between missing an opportunity because your camera is not ready yet and making a spontaneous snapshot. (It took my E-20 about three seconds to either wake up from sleep or to be ready after switching it on.)
On both the D70 and the D80, it's not noticeably, it's virtually instantaneous.
On both the D70 and the D80, it's not noticeably, it's virtually instantaneous.