Rant about the new Mac Mini.

[Tago]

That's a wrong expectation to have when it comes to Apple.

I've been an Apple customers for about 15 years and Apple's prices have gone up, down and stayed the same.

In this market, the 2018 Base Mac Mini cost about USD 30-35 more than the present M4 base iteration, and the price is the same as the M1 at release.They HAVE increased the prices of ram/storage with 20% which is much less than the general picture should indicate.

Meanwhile the currency has weakened significantly against the USD (haven`t checked the currencies in countries where the parts are made and the assembly takes place, but logistics have been generally more expensive, and so is energy). Ram/SSD prices are somewhat disconnected - more or less like prices vary at a commodity exchange by supply and demand.

The general picture is that prices are up between 50 and 100% since before Corona. The retailers in this market are not in the habit of discounting new iterations of Macs, and I bet there isn`t much if any profit left for the retailer knocking USD 100 off a base M4 mini, which was the deal I paid for.

The Mini is exceptionally good value and I believe on a similar level to the pre 2018 iterations in terms of prices relative to general costs/salaries and so on. Sticking to the base iteration the M4 Mini will be almost embarrassingly cheap to own provided if passing it on when it makes sense.

Probably (on top of my head estimate), a 512/24 M4 Mini sits right where the 2018 was taking currency and generally much higher prices/living costs into consideration.

 

[CharlesShaw]

5) None of the above.

Welcome, new member.

Option 5 is open to many possibilities, such as accepting that nobody really wants to see your photos and movies; gamers are right about Mac; and buying a new computer is actually fun.

 

[AlaskaMoose]

I always choose option 1 when it comes to Apple. It has kept me a satisfied Apple customer for nearly 15 years.

I think everyone who choose options 2-5 are the disgruntled ones.

I have been using Apple computers since the GS model (somewhere around 1987?). However, in the recent past some of the Apple computers allowed for one to remove and replace the RAM modules (my 2019 27" 5K iMac). When I purchased this iMac I chose the one in the middle that incorporated a 2TB Fusion drive. I am still using this iMac for light photo editing, and plan to replace the Fusion drive with a 2-4TB SSD, which should cost from $200.00 (2TB) to a little over $300.00 for a 4TB SSD. By the way, I am not disgruntled at all, just not paying the exorbitant price for Apple storage. I can say the same for the M4 iMac. It is to longer interesting to me, not even the $1,700 iMac with a 512GB SSD.

More than likely I will buy a M4 Mini, and will move the Home folder to an external SSD. I can do with my own intelligence, and don't have to encrypt anything in the external SSD. In addition, I don't even need to use iCloud; I prefer to backup all my files and folders (photos and all) to external hard drives. When editing the photos I take of the Auroras, some wildlife, etc., lost of the internal storage is used. I need a minimum of 2TBs of "temporary" storage every 6-12 months while I edit my photos. Once edited each is moved to external hard drives.

 

[haruhiko]

And here was the healthiest and simplest approach, as presented in the second post of the thread.

If Apple had simply eliminated the $599 price point, many mini fans would still pay $799 to get the new design and powerful guts (and wouldn't be mad about having to fight with themselves about the choice). I've always wondered if Apple would actually sell more devices if they offered fewer choices.

Yeah that’s exactly what I mean. Just think that the thing starts at USD799 if you think 512GB is necessary. It suddenly feels okay.

 

[ivnj]

Also some good ideas about the power button here.

Here's How DIYers Plan to Fix the Mac Mini’s Awkward Power Button

The Mac mini put the power button on the bottom of the device. To make it easier, a few designers already have a few novel solutions.

gizmodo.com

 

[familychoice]

I did #1 once.

It was November 2019.

Apple announced the transition to Apple Silicon a year later.

With the benefit of hindsight, I probably should’ve chosen one of the other options.

You never really know what’s lurking around the corner…

So this time I went with the base model.

Apple released the silicons about 6 months after I bought my 16" Macbook Pro, but as I upgraded the storage and RAM a bit to 16/512, it's still holding its own for general stuff (typing on it now). No buyers remorse, my desktop had just died and I had to get something quick to work on, and to be fair the screen/keyboard/speakers etc. are great. And since I live in cold, damp, wet Mid Wales, the oocasional blast of heat on my lap is also a bonus.

 

[redheeler]

Apple released the silicons about 6 months after I bought my 16" Macbook Pro, but as I upgraded the storage and RAM a bit to 16/512, it's still holding its own for general stuff (typing on it now). No buyers remorse, my desktop had just died and I had to get something quick to work on, and to be fair the screen/keyboard/speakers etc. are great. And since I live in cold, damp, wet Mid Wales, the oocasional blast of heat on my lap is also a bonus.

16/512 was the base config for the 16”. I upped mine to 32/1TB.

 

[theluggage]

That's a wrong expectation to have when it comes to Apple.

Base Mac Mini
2005: $599
2006: $599
2007: $599
2009: $599
2010: $699
2011: $599
2012: $599
2014: $499 (Worst. Mini. Ever. Generally regarded as a major downgrade)
2018: $799 (First with SSD as standard, switch to desktop processors)
2020: $699 (M1)
2023: $599
2024: $599

The Mini has basically been the same price (with rapidly increasing specs) for nearly 20 years. So yes, even though the price has fluctuated before, it's never stuck and a $200 price hike in the 2024 base Mac Mini would have been a big deal.

See also:

Price of a base iMac in 1998: $1299
Price of a base iMac in 2024: $1299

Cheapest MacBook Pro in 2006: $1999
Cheapest MacBook Pro in 2024: $1599

 

[familychoice]

16/512 was the base config for the 16”. I upped mine to 32/1TB.

Was it? I can't remember now, that's my minimum spec anyway, and the Intel seems happy enough with anything I throw at it, though I'm not into film editing or gaming shog.

 

[WhisperingBobcat]

So you have 4 choices.

1) Over-pay for lots of RAM and Internal storage to have a computer that will meet your needs and last.
2) Boot from external drive and forgo Apple Intelligence.
3) Boot from internal drive and keep home directory on external drive and forgo the security of encrypting your data.
4) Devise ways to split where you store your data, so you can boot internally, keep home directory on internal drive, and store the bulk of your data on an external drive.
5) None of the above.

I've always done 4) since the early Windows days seperating my data from the OS. I backed up my data but never the OS. If I lost OS, just reinstall and get a clean setup.

I still have a large music collection that will never require premium priced mac interal storage. Same for many people with video, photos, etc. The ones you are working on, yes, but the ones that are basically read only, no.

256GB with a 2TB SSD has worked will for my 2018 mini. But I've been moving to cloud storage more lately and even with 50GB iCloud drive, which I would want to keep locally all the time on at least one machine. 256GB would require some periodic disk storage maintenence that I'm not likely to enjoy. So 512GB it is.

I don't like the overcharging. I ordered the M4 with 256GB at first, but cancelled a couple days later after some regret, and went with the 512GB. A combination of education store $100 off and Apple gift card wheeling and dealing to save another $100-$150 eased the pain a bit, but took a lot of work.

 

[Boyd01]

I just got a base m4 Mini for $529 from a B&H Black Friday sale. It's going to replace a 2014 base Mini that is only used as an iTunes server for my Apple TV's with all my media on a 4tb external SSD. That old Mini started having issues a couple days ago. While I might be able to fix it, there isn't much future for iTunes and Mojave and I'd rather switch to something that will last awhile.

I started using a 2012 base Mini for this back around 2014, which also cost $500. Eventually gave that Mini to my daughter and replaced it with a base 2014 Mini for $500.

Now it will be replaced with a 2024 m4 Mini for about the same price. Seems reasonable and arguably over-kill for a machine that mostly sits in a cabinet running media sharing. The 256gb ssd will be mostly empty, I only need a plain-vanilla MacOS installation; all my media is on an external SSD. 16gb should also be more than enough - unless it gets eaten up by some new AI features I don't want but can't turn off. 🤣

I initally thought of getting an older m-series Mini from the Apple refurb store, but they had nothing. Still selling base m2 Mini's there for something like $600, which made no sense when the m4 was cheaper and had twice the memory.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

I just got a base m4 Mini for $529 from a B&H Black Friday sale. It's going to replace a 2014 base Mini that is only used as an iTunes server for my Apple TV's with all my media on a 4tb external SSD. That old Mini started having issues a couple days ago. While I might be able to fix it, there isn't much future for iTunes and Mojave and I'd rather switch to something that will last awhile.

I started using a 2012 base Mini for this back around 2014, which also cost $500. Eventually gave that Mini to my daughter and replaced it with a base 2014 Mini for $500.

Now it will be replaced with a 2024 m4 Mini for about the same price. Seems reasonable and arguably over-kill for a machine that mostly sits in a cabinet running media sharing. The 256gb ssd will be mostly empty, I only need a plain-vanilla MacOS installation; all my media is on an external SSD. 16gb should also be more than enough - unless it gets eaten up by some new AI features I don't want but can't be disabled. 🤣

I initally thought of getting an older m-series Mini from the Apple refurb store, but they had nothing. Still selling base m2 Mini's there for something like $600, which made no sense when the m4 was cheaper and had twice the memory.

Yeah, I have been watching Swappa and people simply don't understand the new prices. Why would I get a 16/512 M2 Mini for $650 when I could get an M4 16/512 Mini for $799--$699 education pricing?

 

[ducknalddon]

Base Mac Mini
2005: $599
2006: $599
2007: $599
2009: $599
2010: $699
2011: $599
2012: $599
2014: $499 (Worst. Mini. Ever. Generally regarded as a major downgrade)
2018: $799 (First with SSD as standard, switch to desktop processors)
2020: $699 (M1)
2023: $599
2024: $599

The Mini has basically been the same price (with rapidly increasing specs) for nearly 20 years. So yes, even though the price has fluctuated before, it's never stuck and a $200 price hike in the 2024 base Mac Mini would have been a big deal.

See also:

Price of a base iMac in 1998: $1299
Price of a base iMac in 2024: $1299

Cheapest MacBook Pro in 2006: $1999
Cheapest MacBook Pro in 2024: $1599

Interesting that the price went down after they dropped Intel.

In general though you can thank China for those stable prices.

 

[Jensend]

The base storage in a Mac Mini 14 years ago was 320 GB. 13 years ago it was 500GB.
Yeah, that was a spinning disc drive, but it's disappointing to that any specification is worse than it was 14 years ago.

I guess growing up in an age when most specifications doubled every couple of years, it's just seems weird how much some things have stagnated.

 

[MadTester]

The way i see it:

Base Mac Mini should start with 512gb.

RAM and storage upgrades should be at a maximum, 100 per bump, not the current.

Mac Mini M4 Pro base mode needs a 300 bucks price cut.

I dont understand why Apple doesn’t try to really go for market share and instead it’s complacent in abusing their loyal customers.

Windows is horrible in its current state, Linux Desktop looks like it will never happen.

The current crop of mini pcs might not have a faster cpu, but they have more cores plus way better gpus, with user upgradable ram and storage.

Hell, apple showed us their true colors by going out of their way in making sure that the Mini doesnt have industry standard storage connectors JUST so we cant avoid their insulting prices.

But many of us will never complain, will instead attack the one that does dare call out their bs and will continue buying Macs and defending poor apple and their lack of consideration for our loyalty.

Personally, i will reluctantly buy a base mini, simply because I need to have a Mac in my homelab, but not happy that i cannot buy (in good conscience) the system that i want.

A shame, I feel like the current Mini Pro is paying a nice homage to the legendary SE/30.

"Windows is horrible in its current state" - agreed
"Linux Desktop looks like it will never happen." - ? I have an Ubuntu build laptop as well as a vm running on my Mac mini, not sure how what you mean?

Everything else is kinda, individual choice of what you need for what etc

 

[theluggage]

Interesting that the price went down after they dropped Intel.

Apple Silicon is impressive performance wise, but it would never have happened if it didn’t also save Apple money in the medium term.

Also, I always felt the 2018 i3 Mini was overpriced - yes, it was a big performance boost over the 2014 but that was down to (a) time and (b) being able to switch from relatively expensive ultra-low-TDP CPUs to relatively cheaper higher TDP chips because dropping the optical and hard drive made room for a bigger cooler) - plus a shift from i5 to i3 (which may not mean anything in tech terms but does correspond to a lower price point from Intel).

In general though you can thank China for those stable prices.

Maybe - but it’s interesting that the “dollar price” of a half decent personal computer has been in the same ball park since the late 1970s. I believe an Apple 2 was about $1300 (and a CCTV display would have set you back another $100 or so).

Yeah, that was a spinning disc drive, but it's disappointing to that any specification is worse than it was 14 years ago.

Sure - the most significant Apple price bump was probably with the launch of the SSD-only Retina MBP in 2012, and a 128GB+ SSD was really expensive back then - Apple just don’t seem to have acknowledged the fall in SSD price-per-gb since. I paid £250 for a 256 GB Samsung SSD in 2013 - that would buy 2TB (of decent, fast, PCIe 4 flash from Samsung) today. In that time, Apple have only gone from 128GB to - well, since we’re talking MBP - 512GB…

 

[Boyd01]

I believe an Apple 2 was about $1300 (and a CCTV display would have set you back another $100 or so).

Here's the receipt for my 16k Apple ][ . The details have faded out (pressure-sensitive paper?) but you can still see the serial number - 4546 - and the date - June 22, 1978! The "Computer Workshop" was literally the basement of a little ranch home in the Pittsburgh suburbs. But it was like a candy store for me!

Now, you were talking about base models above, and this was actually the top-spec Apple ][ in its day. Mine had 16k but the base model only had 4k of RAM. The base model didn't have enough memory to load floating point BASIC (from your audio tape recorder!), it could only use Apple's integer BASIC which was burned into ROM. But you could still play Star Wars and Star Trek (included on cassette tapes) and it's what most people were buying since it was a lot cheaper. Note that the $1225 is just the list price. There was tax that brought the total to around $1300, but that has faded away on the receipt.

I guess I see the point about the "dollar price", but look what that would be when you consider inflation! I guess this is why I didn't know anyone else with a personal computer back then, it was a real oddity.

For monitors, I used a small color TV. The Apple ][ had an RF modulator directly connected to the video-out on the motherboard. So, you just connected it to the antenna port on your TV. This what just about everyone was doing back then, because a big selling point of the Apple ][ was COLOR (look at the rainbow logo). Not many people could afford a color video monitor, especially after buying that expensive computer. Of course, text looked pretty ragged on the color TV through the RF modulator, so if you were doing a lot of typing you might want a monchrome monitor. I got one of the iconic little 9" B/W Motorola CCTV monitors after couple years, but pretty sure it was a lot more than $100.

Now these were the early days. There was no disk drive for the Apple ][ then (announced, but not shipping for awhile). You had to provide your own cassette tape deck and connect to an audio modem in the computer. I got a disk drive later - very expensive and I could only afford one, which was a pain when you wanted to copy a disk, it required a bunch of swaps!

 

[eltoslightfoot]

Here's the receipt for my 16k Apple ][ . The details have faded out (pressure-sensitive paper?) but you can still see the serial number - 4546 - and the date - June 22, 1978! The "Computer Workshop" was literally the basement of a little ranch home in the Pittsburgh suburbs. But it was like a candy store for me!


View attachment 2458047


Now, you were talking about base models above, and this was actually the top-spec Apple ][ in its day. Mine had 16k but the base model only had 4k of RAM. The base model didn't have enough memory to load floating point BASIC (from your audio tape recorder!), it could only use Apple's integer BASIC which was burned into ROM. But you could still play Star Wars and Star Trek (included on cassette tapes) and it's what most people were buying since it was a lot cheaper. Note that the $1225 is just the list price. There was tax that brought the total to around $1300, but that has faded away on the receipt.

I guess I see the point about the "dollar price", but look what that would be when you consider inflation! I guess this is why I didn't know anyone else with a personal computer back then, it was a real oddity.

View attachment 2458049


For monitors, I used a small color TV. The Apple ][ had an RF modulator directly connected to the video-out on the motherboard. So, you just connected it to the antenna port on your TV. This what just about everyone was doing back then, because a big selling point of the Apple ][ was COLOR (look at the rainbow logo). Not many people could afford a color video monitor, especially after buying that expensive computer. Of course, text looked pretty ragged on the color TV through the RF modulator, so if you were doing a lot of typing you might want a monchrome monitor. I got one of the iconic little 9" B/W Motorola CCTV monitors after couple years, but pretty sure it was a lot more than $100.

Now these were the early days. There was no disk drive for the Apple ][ then (announced, but not shipping for awhile). You had to provide your own cassette tape deck and connect to an audio modem in the computer. I got a disk drive later - very expensive and I could only afford one, which was a pain when you wanted to copy a disk, it required a bunch of swaps!

Heck that was before my time! I at least had a C64 with a tape and floppy drive, but I don’t think it had a hard drive. I had to load from the floppy drive. And copying a disk took much swapping. That is an awesome receipt!!! Computers used to be so much more money.

 

[Boyd01]

Yeah, I don't really think there's any comparison to the Mini at all, these are Mac Pro level prices. That really represented the top Apple product when I got it. Of course, you could load it up with more RAM but then the price would be astronomical (48k was the max, 16k was reserved for ROM). Eventually, I maxxed mine out but that was a number of years later when prices dropped.

 

[DankeBrutus]

Whiskey is free

Can't play either Call of Duty or Fortnite with WINE.

 

[Cirillo Gherardo]

The way i see it:

Base Mac Mini should start with 512gb.

RAM and storage upgrades should be at a maximum, 100 per bump, not the current.

Mac Mini M4 Pro base mode needs a 300 bucks price cut.

I dont understand why Apple doesn’t try to really go for market share and instead it’s complacent in abusing their loyal customers.

Windows is horrible in its current state, Linux Desktop looks like it will never happen.

The current crop of mini pcs might not have a faster cpu, but they have more cores plus way better gpus, with user upgradable ram and storage.

Hell, apple showed us their true colors by going out of their way in making sure that the Mini doesnt have industry standard storage connectors JUST so we cant avoid their insulting prices.

But many of us will never complain, will instead attack the one that does dare call out their bs and will continue buying Macs and defending poor apple and their lack of consideration for our loyalty.

Personally, i will reluctantly buy a base mini, simply because I need to have a Mac in my homelab, but not happy that i cannot buy (in good conscience) the system that i want.

A shame, I feel like the current Mini Pro is paying a nice homage to the legendary SE/30.

So basically in your opinion, Apple should not make any money on these products.

 

[Boyd01]

look what that would be when you consider inflation!

Also interesting to turn that around and see what today's base Mini would have cost in 1978 dollars. It's - literally - only 1/10 of what I paid for my Apple ][ ($1225)!

 

[mode11]

The bigger question that (some) people are wrestling with here is: are Macs worth the price premium? Obviously, this is up to the individual to decide.

Macs have always been premium priced, and have always been a rip off to up-spec from the factory. On the other hand, they do have nice fit and finish, great ecosystem integration, and a generally great OS. In recent years they've also lead the market in energy efficiency and single-core performance.

There's no reason that Apple would or should sell their computers for any less than they can get away with. One can make cases about growing market share etc, but Apple have crunched the numbers and I'm guessing they know what they're doing. Ultimately, you can either pay the price, or switch to Windows (or Linux).

It's true that Windows needs more work out of the box - particularly in terms of finding equivalents to Apple's nice bundled apps and features. But Windows 10/11 is fast and stable, and quality Windows software (e.g. Em Client) does exist. It takes time, but the pay off is access to a vast and competitive marketplace, rather than being at the mercy of a single supplier.

 

[neomorpheus]

"Linux Desktop looks like it will never happen." - ? I have an Ubuntu build laptop as well as a vm running on my Mac mini, not sure how what you mean?

Linux market share (per Steam Hardware survey, which i dont find it accurate) states that the Desktop market share is around 2%.

This is after 30 years of development.

Granted, I do believe that Ubuntu (and its derivatives like Mint) and perhaps Fedora are really stable and useful, but they still lack native versions of Adobe, MS and many other programs, which means, they cant be usefull for many.

To clarify, I am a huge Linux fan but cant ignore their market share issue.

Everything else is kinda, individual choice of what you need for what etc

The main point of my rant was the insult from Apple with the upgrade prices, considering that those parts are dirt cheap, but he had excuses after excuses to justify their prices.

 

[phoenix-mac-user]

The bigger question that (some) people are wrestling with here is: are Macs worth the price premium? Obviously, this is up to the individual to decide.

Honestly I don't mind if people switch to Windows and Apple charges me premium prices.

One reason I love MacOS is I don't have to install a bunch of anti-virus software and part of the reason for that isn't because they can't get viruses, though there are more protections in place, its because they are a small percent of the overall market share so it doesn't make sense to write viruses that target 15% of the desktop market when you can write them for 70% of the market.

Apple probably doesn't agree with me on this. lol.