Reconsidering Vision Pro purchase after M4

[Onimusha370]

Is anyone else reconsidering whether to buy the Vision Pro after seeing the M4 chips in the new iPads? I'm in the UK and have been eagerly awaiting the international release (can't believe it's still not happened!). While I was very excited about AVP at the start of the year, I've become more and more unsure about whether it's worth buying the AVP in its current state, in 2024, for c.£4,000.

Firstly there seems to be a lack of 3D/interactive content from Apple, which I won't go into here because I'm sure its covered in other threads, but on top of that, the release of the M4 has made me question the value of the AVP in its current form. The M2 architecture dates all the way back to the A15 from September 2021, and notably Apple confirmed that the M4 has the same performance as M2 while using just 50% of the power. That's a HUGE change in 3 years and I'd imagine by the time we get an AVP refresh we'll be on the M5/M6. These big leaps in efficiency will allow much greater battery life, and ALSO a slimmer/lighter headset design - both of which are hugely welcome and perhaps the 2 biggest sticking points of the current hardware.

I appreciate first gen products are always somewhat hamstrung, but despite my huge enthusiasm for AR, I'm struggling to justify such a huge amount of money for something that has outdated hardware at launch, and from what I can see a general lack of immersive/3D content (which to me is the main selling point of the device).

Just wondered if anyone else was in the same boat as me - great to get peoples thoughts.

 

[Macaholic868]

Is anyone else reconsidering whether to buy the Vision Pro after seeing the M4 chips in the new iPads? I'm in the UK and have been eagerly awaiting the international release (can't believe it's still not happened!). While I was very excited about AVP at the start of the year, I've become more and more unsure about whether it's worth buying the AVP in its current state, in 2024, for c.£4,000.

Firstly there seems to be a lack of 3D/interactive content from Apple, which I won't go into here because I'm sure its covered in other threads, but on top of that, the release of the M4 has made me question the value of the AVP in its current form. The M2 architecture dates all the way back to the A15 from September 2021, and notably Apple confirmed that the M4 has the same performance as M2 while using just 50% of the power. That's a HUGE change in 3 years and I'd imagine by the time we get an AVP refresh we'll be on the M5/M6. These big leaps in efficiency will allow much greater battery life, and ALSO a slimmer/lighter headset design - both of which are hugely welcome and perhaps the 2 biggest sticking points of the current hardware.

I appreciate first gen products are always somewhat hamstrung, but despite my huge enthusiasm for AR, I'm struggling to justify such a huge amount of money for something that has outdated hardware at launch, and from what I can see a general lack of immersive/3D content (which to me is the main selling point of the device).

Just wondered if anyone else was in the same boat as me - great to get peoples thoughts.

If the reports are to be believed we’re not looking at a second hardware revision of the device until 2026. Plus the AVP has its own custom silicon designed specifically for the device in addition to its M2 processor. Certainly by 2026 we’re not talking about the M4 but some other iteration being the latest and greatest from Apple so given those things I’m not at all concerned about the hardware being obsolete.

I’m much more concerned with the lack of immersive content. The AVP is powerful enough that I haven’t noticed any performance issues with it. If, on the other hand, there isn’t a much faster drip of episodes of these immersive series once it’s released into other international markets that’ll make me much more concerned than the existence of newer M series chips.

 

[Onimusha370]

If the reports are to be believed we’re not looking at a second hardware revision of the device until 2026. Plus the AVP has its own custom silicon designed specifically for the device in addition to its M2 processor. Certainly by 2026 we’re not talking about the M4 but some other iteration being the latest and greatest from Apple so given those things I’m not at all concerned about the hardware being obsolete.

I’m much more concerned with the lack of immersive content. The AVP is powerful enough that I haven’t noticed any performance issues with it. If, on the other hand, there isn’t a much faster drip of episodes of these immersive series once it’s released into other international markets that’ll make me much more concerned than the existence of newer M series chips.

Yes agree that the lack of content is concerning as well. I worry that Apple is so unsure of what the devices biggest selling points are that they're being too cautious on acquiring/producing immersive content. I'd personally love a weekly schedule of content that AVP owners can look forward to and get excited about, rather than having to just hope that more will be made over time. Hopefully we get some big announcements at WWDC.

 

[GMShadow]

Remember the AVP is leveraging the R1 chip as much as the M2, it's not the same situation as a Mac or iPad.

That said? I think it's totally reasonable to wait for either a price cut or a new model. Might it take a few years? Yes, and by then the software should be much more mature as well. We'll get an early look at what directions that software might take in a few weeks at WWDC.

 

[chabig]

We'll get an early look at what directions that software might take in a few weeks at WWDC.

Yes. Let's see what Apple does with AVP at WWDC.

 

[Cirillo Gherardo]

Is anyone else reconsidering whether to buy the Vision Pro after seeing the M4 chips in the new iPads? I'm in the UK and have been eagerly awaiting the international release (can't believe it's still not happened!). While I was very excited about AVP at the start of the year, I've become more and more unsure about whether it's worth buying the AVP in its current state, in 2024, for c.£4,000.

Firstly there seems to be a lack of 3D/interactive content from Apple, which I won't go into here because I'm sure its covered in other threads, but on top of that, the release of the M4 has made me question the value of the AVP in its current form. The M2 architecture dates all the way back to the A15 from September 2021, and notably Apple confirmed that the M4 has the same performance as M2 while using just 50% of the power. That's a HUGE change in 3 years and I'd imagine by the time we get an AVP refresh we'll be on the M5/M6. These big leaps in efficiency will allow much greater battery life, and ALSO a slimmer/lighter headset design - both of which are hugely welcome and perhaps the 2 biggest sticking points of the current hardware.

I appreciate first gen products are always somewhat hamstrung, but despite my huge enthusiasm for AR, I'm struggling to justify such a huge amount of money for something that has outdated hardware at launch, and from what I can see a general lack of immersive/3D content (which to me is the main selling point of the device).

Just wondered if anyone else was in the same boat as me - great to get peoples thoughts.

There are a lot of really, really good reasons not to buy the Vision Pro. But being worried that it's hardware is somehow out of date is certainly not one of them.

 

[Cirillo Gherardo]

Yes. Let's see what Apple does with AVP at WWDC.

I'm going to wager next to nothing. It will get less of a mention than tvOS.

 

[Onimusha370]

There are a lot of really, really good reasons not to buy the Vision Pro. But being worried that it's hardware is somehow out of date is certainly not one of them.

It is for me!

 

[Cirillo Gherardo]

It is for me!

It shouldn't be. That's simply a lack of understanding.

 

[Onimusha370]

It shouldn't be. That's simply a lack of understanding.

Thanks for your help!

 

[Flowstates]

1. Do you have a use case in your life,whether personal / professional, justifying the purchase of the device. ? Justified meaning that you already know that this given application could enhance QoL and is not based on false needs.

Yes: Buy it, it is made for you.
No: Consider why you are considering the purchase - Go to 2.

2.a. Do you spend too much time consuming and socializing based on your induced consumption of consumer goods, don't buy it.

2.b. Do you like playing around with cutting edge tech to figure out the landscape for the sake of exploring. Then consider the following.

Processing seems to be good enough to handle the the low latency video processing necessary for pass through. And when used in immersive, the content is already way above what could be expected to be the equivalent of "retina" for spatial consumption.

The device is not a VR headset, merely something to handle floating windows in space. Based on that premice, the performance improvements should be channeled towards battery life and the amelioraiton of the passthrough canvas.

IDK about you, the battery for the AVP is only something to get you continuity between two areas with Usb-c connectivity so it is a non starter for me.

The compute overhead would be (and would I ever wager will be) used to handle some software HDR or better low light processing for the pass through this being the true limitation for a system offering floating windows in space.

Would you be able to live with a slightly worse version of passthrough when the new rev releases in (as has been said before) two years, you tell me.

That being said, I would not advise people to spend net earnings on it. My 0.02c

 

[SirithX]

It's not really "outdated" until hardware is available that is better. I feel the current AVP will continue to be the gold standard AR/VR consumer headset for some time IMO. I think the better way to think about this isn't what it could be, but rather what it is today, at this moment. Only once a new AVP with an M5 or M6 is out to the masses or Meta releases a better Quest Pro or something like that, then I'd consider the current one outdated.

Your point on the lack of content is totally fair, with time that will improve and I wouldn't blame you to want to wait longer to have more things to do with it before buying one.

 

[Flowstates]

And to add to the point @SirithX made, it may only really be outdated in the public sphere. Whether you let peer pressure and mimetism delude you into devaluing your own ressources is something you can reign under control.

My point about spending pre-tax money on it alleviates worries for resale value (and the induced market scoping) given that the value-loss is already being accounted for on a schedule and does not have to be considered.

And as content goes, Skybox via testflight is a godsent.

 

[Onimusha370]

It's not really "outdated" until hardware is available that is better. I feel the current AVP will continue to be the gold standard AR/VR consumer headset for some time IMO. I think the better way to think about this isn't what it could be, but rather what it is today, at this moment. Only once a new AVP with an M5 or M6 is out to the masses or Meta releases a better Quest Pro or something like that, then I'd consider the current one outdated.

Your point on the lack of content is totally fair, with time that will improve and I wouldn't blame you to want to wait longer to have more things to do with it before buying one.

Thanks thats a good point, I guess it's not outdated until a new version is out! I guess my frustration is borne out of previous 1st gen apple product purchases (iPad, Apple Watch) where the hardware became an issue within a year or 2 of the launch (iOS5 was a disaster on the OG iPad, and the series 0 AW was struggling from the start).

I guess with the M2 being so good to start with, there's less of a risk of that happening here - but the fact that battery life will likely go up significantly with a 3nm chip is still frustrating.

 

[Analog Kid]

I'm going to wager next to nothing. It will get less of a mention than tvOS.

I'd take the other side of that bet. It might sit behind AI in the investor priority list, but AVP is the new shiny and VisionOS 2 will get stage time.

 

[Cirillo Gherardo]

Thanks thats a good point, I guess it's not outdated until a new version is out! I guess my frustration is borne out of previous 1st gen apple product purchases (iPad, Apple Watch) where the hardware became an issue within a year or 2 of the launch (iOS5 was a disaster on the OG iPad, and the series 0 AW was struggling from the start).

I guess with the M2 being so good to start with, there's less of a risk of that happening here - but the fact that battery life will likely go up significantly with a 3nm chip is still frustrating.

Like I said, a lack of understanding. You have no basis for believing that there is anything a hypothetical M4 Vision Pro can or could do that an M2 model can't. In reality, these chips are extremely similar in capability across the board, and are going to power the same functions the same way. Apple is iterating on chips quickly but for specific reasons for specific products. There is no giant generational leap happening across every product line.

Furthermore, look at what vision pro is, and what it can do. What do you imagine an updated chip is going to contribute to at this point?

- Is it going to make less uncomfortable to wear for periods longer than 30 minutes? No.
- Is it going to make it have real passthrough instead of fake video passthrough that makes people nauseous due to unavoidable latency? No.
- Is it going to make it not tethered to the wall? No.
- Is it going to make it suddenly have developer interest and adoption? No.
- Is it going to make stop surviving off baby iPad apps? No.
- Is it going to make it less world-isolating and awkward to use? No.
- Is it going to make it not start at $3,500? No.

I just gave you a list of reasons not to buy Vision Pro, that would still be true if Apple dropped a model with an M4 tomorrow. A product which, by the way, there is absolutely no sign of and no projection on when or if it may even materialize. There may never even be a version 2, at the rate it's going.

 

[Cirillo Gherardo]

I'd take the other side of that bet. It might sit behind AI in the investor priority list, but AVP is the new shiny and VisionOS 2 will get stage time.

If you've seen the kind of attention tvOS has gotten in the past, expect it to be something exactly like that. It will be mentioned, there will be 1 or 2 minor new-ish things, and they will move on.

 

[Onimusha370]

Like I said, a lack of understanding. You have no basis for believing that there is anything a hypothetical M4 Vision Pro can or could do that an M2 model can't. In reality, these chips are extremely similar in capability across the board, and are going to power the same functions the same way. Apple is iterating on chips quickly but for specific reasons for specific products. There is no giant generational leap happening across every product line.

Furthermore, look at what vision pro is, and what it can do. What do you imagine an updated chip is going to contribute to at this point?

- Is it going to make less uncomfortable to wear for periods longer than 30 minutes? No.
- Is it going to make it have real passthrough instead of fake video passthrough that makes people nauseous due to unavoidable latency? No.
- Is it going to make it not tethered to the wall? No.
- Is it going to make it suddenly have developer interest and adoption? No.
- Is it going to make stop surviving off baby iPad apps? No.
- Is it going to make it less world-isolating and awkward to use? No.
- Is it going to make it not start at $3,500? No.

I just gave you a list of reasons not to buy Vision Pro, that would still be true if Apple dropped a model with an M4 tomorrow. A product which, by the way, there is absolutely no sign of and no projection on when or if it may even materialize. There may never even be a version 2, at the rate it's going.

I agree with pretty much everything you're saying - but with respect, I understand all of that. My main point in the original post was that the M4 is significantly more efficient than the M2 and would lead to better battery life (and will undoubtedly receive updates for longer).

I have experience in wearing similar weight AR/VR products and like to use them for multiple hours at a time - an extra 30/60 mins of battery life would make a difference to me, and so would an extra couple of years of OS updates, not to mention the device running cooler and supporting things like ray tracing.

It's easy to say "these things are irrelevant/won't move the needle" but that's subjective - and I personally want my £4,000 purchase to use the latest and greatest hardware!

 

[Onimusha370]

If you've seen the kind of attention tvOS has gotten in the past, expect it to be something exactly like that. It will be mentioned, there will be 1 or 2 minor new-ish things, and they will move on.

The Apple TV and the AVP are two very different products. I would be stunned if there wasn't a lengthy section on VisionOS 2.0

 

[Flowstates]

If you've seen the kind of attention tvOS has gotten in the past, expect it to be something exactly like that. It will be mentioned, there will be 1 or 2 minor new-ish things, and they will move on.

[Off-Topic] What are changes that could drive up the revenue to the services division by the appleTV and by extension tvOS ? Creating a better ecosystem for other apps might eat into the subscription envelope of households. From this point of view, the status quo is good enough, no need for capex.

This reasoning if close to the reality at apple's might also be problematic for visionOS unless we start seeing good value propositions from devs that could induce consumption.

 

[Flowstates]

It's easy to say "these things are irrelevant/won't move the needle" but that's subjective - and I personally want my £4,000 purchase to use the latest and greatest hardware!

And it will remain this until the next release.

 

[Onimusha370]

And it will remain this until the next release.

Yep - that's why I'm tempted to wait until the next release!

 

[Flowstates]

Yep - that's why I'm tempted to wait until the next release!

Then, you should listen to the temptation. The simple fact that you are not simply buying it outright gives an idea about the necessity of the purchase.

Wait and see if the next iteration can compel you. But before everything, ask yourself whether. you have the level of discretionary income to sustain the purchase.

 

[Flowstates]

I'd take the other side of that bet. It might sit behind AI in the investor priority list, but AVP is the new shiny and VisionOS 2 will get stage time.

It might get some once the iOS rev (biggie) and the new iphones (with the implied info that spatial capture will become baseline for all levels of devices, implying more content) get released. Until then there is no need to talk about it

 

[Cirillo Gherardo]

I agree with pretty much everything you're saying - but with respect, I understand all of that. My main point in the original post was that the M4 is significantly more efficient than the M2 and would lead to better battery life (and will undoubtedly receive updates for longer).

I have experience in wearing similar weight AR/VR products and like to use them for multiple hours at a time - an extra 30/60 mins of battery life would make a difference to me, and so would an extra couple of years of OS updates, not to mention the device running cooler and supporting things like ray tracing.

It's easy to say "these things are irrelevant/won't move the needle" but that's subjective - and I personally want my £4,000 purchase to use the latest and greatest hardware!

Sorry to keep pushing this, but again, it is just a lack of understanding. You're the type that understands just enough to get yourself into trouble. M4 is no where near that much more efficient than M2. Not even remotely close. Nor is it so much more advanced than M2 that it would be getting software updates longer. Apple has yet to introduce ANYTHING hardware wise that would one day cut off macOS from M1 let alone M4. You're worried about all of the wrong things.