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It's positive that the leader of a company known for proprietary, non-standard modules is involved in the design of the modular Apple Pro?

I'd call it frightening, not positive.

Let's calm down a bit, you guys are acting like he's designing the thing himself. He's had some input...that's it. Also it's as ridiculous to say that because he runs his company a certain way, the new Mac Pro will be just like the products he produces.

Bruno Sacco, an Italian, designed most Mercedes-Benz vehicles for a very long time, up until the early 2000s. Does that mean that all of a sudden every car they made was an unreliable, 2 seat sports car? Of course not, that would be ridiculous.

At most, I'm certain they're asking him about his experience doing modular designs, it might even be nothing more than "What are you looking for in a new, top-end video workstation" - we don't know. But making insane jumps to conclusion is usually not a good idea.
 
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I noticed on the Raven bundle on the apple store, the camera doesn't have a skull glyph engraved on the sidekick module cover anymore like it used to- it's a RED logo now. I wonder if Apple requested that as they have a pretty strict content policy on their app and retail stores- no violence/graphic images, etc. Lol.

Anyway....Scarlet MX and 2013 nMP here looking forward to what 2018-2019 brings with new hardware.
 
RED rocket is not a GPU which is why I mentioned it. You obviously have more experience then me judging by your RED ownership, I really can't comment though as I have had nothing to do with RED footage so it would be wrong of me to discuss the cards importance without user experience.

Red footage is very complicated to decode, which is why the Red Rocket card was made initially. It's a custom JPEG2000 based wavelet compression hardware decoder. When GPUS started getting more powerful, they retooled the software to allow GPU acceleration (CUDA,OPENCL) to work for processing Red footage. While you can still benefit from using the latest Rocket card, I'm pretty sure they aren't focused on making a newer version. I think even Jarred made a statement at some point that the future of Red post will be powerful GPUs.

I'm just trying to dispel the idea that Red's motive here is to sell cards. It's not. Not enough people buy those cards anyway. Jarred is a Mac-Head and has been doing everything he can to get Apple to get their **** together. There's seriously no better person right now to have Apple's attention in regard to what we want the MacPro to be. While I don't see Apple implementing everything he might have to say, you can bet he set them on the right track at least.
 
Red should build PCs considering they appear to understand module designs better than Apple.

Btw Linus Tech Tips benched the Red Rocket (yeah a bit late) recently and found the drivers buggy and that for some reason the card work better if it was disabled in Premiere. Installed but disabled...heh
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It's positive that the leader of a company known for proprietary, non-standard modules is involved in the design of the modular Apple Pro?

I'd call it frightening, not positive.
if Apple was going to do the right thing and use standard components we would have seen the Mac Pro by now.

Refreshed as often as other workstation providers do!
 
Linus has no clue how Red works and posts those vids to get views. His Red unboxing video was atrocious.
 
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I find this "deal" somewhat surprising. RED has nothing that Apple needs. And I feel I can turn that around by saying I don't quite see what RED gets from having Raven be exclusively sold via Apple.

I understand that companies like DJI and other consumer grade manufacturers get some exposure if sold under Apple's wings, but a Raven kit for $15k isn't something you just pick up casually. I wonder if Apple makes financing easier?

Perhaps there is just a mutual fondness. RED's products have showed up in Apple marketing visuals over the years, and as mentioned both Jannard (especially deep) and Jarred have respect for Apple.
 
Linus has no clue how Red works.......

R3d Linus.png
 
The way I read it, does not necessarily imply it will be user-expandable, or have PCIe slots. I take it to mean they will design it in a way that makes it easy to update for Apple.

Not saying I'm right, but he phrases this so carefully, I have a hard time believing they'd make an expandable box like the cMP.

This (something I've pointed out in other threads but nobody wanted to hear).

There was absolutely nothing in that press conference committing Apple to a user-expandable Mac with PCIe slots etc. All you can deduce for certain about what Apple mean by "Modular" is that it doesn't come with a screen.

The flaw they're admitting with the Mac Pro cylinder is its dependence on dual GPUs and Apple's inability to keep it updated, not the lack of user upgradeability.

Hopefully they are planning something better, but nothing they said rules out a hermetically sealed box with a range of build-to-order CPU and GPU options. The fact that the first showing of their new "pro" range is the completely non-user-upgradeable iMac Pro (without even the regular iMac's upgradeable RAM) isn't hopeful.

Also, it doesn't take two years to design a quiet Micro ATX system in a pretty aluminium box, which is what Apple's pro customers actually need.

The other factor is that Apple clearly see their "Real Pro" range (as distinct from MacBook Pro, iPad Pro etc.) as serious-callers-only products for commercial customers - many of whom will get their equipment on a 3-year lease, or otherwise write it off against tax after the 3 year service contract expires. (Possibly hence the panic shortly after the Mac Pro's third birthday). Those customers probably aren't so worried about mid-life upgrades as long as a new, improved version is available when the lease is up. It could, mainly, be the prosumer/enthusiast/hobbyist (even if they are "pros" during the day job) market that they disappoint.
 
Apart from a presence in cinema production workflows. *badoom-tish*

Apple already had great .r3d support in FCPX prior to selling Raven. And selling the Raven package will do nothing in terms of changing the minds of colorists and post production houses that went from Mac to Windows/Linux.

But delivering on their renewed promise of a contemporary Mac Pro WILL be able to do that of course (just don't expect DIY PC prices, component for component.)

I think it's cool that Raven can be bought in an Apple Store, but I do ask myself what they're trying to accomplish.
 
But delivering on their renewed promise of a contemporary Mac Pro WILL be able to do that of course (just don't expect DIY PC prices, component for component.)

I think it's cool that Raven can be bought in an Apple Store, but I do ask myself what they're trying to accomplish.

Personally, I'm expecting the entry level Mac Pro will start around US$9k. I think putting RED's gear in the Apple Store will make the price of the Mac Pro look more sane, contextualising it against other production equipment, rather than other Macs.

What having the camera in the store won't change, is that feature film editing is pretty much Avid and Premiere, and I can't see how anything Apple can do can provide THAT much of a performance advantage over what other, less expensive workstation vendors can do for those apps given the need for relatively standardised parts around Xeon chips/sets.

I wonder if we're going to see Apple try to resurrect the salad days of SGI's pre-NT workstations.
 
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No way. $2500 - $3500 entry level. Friendly wager? :D
heh, apart from "i told you so" rights ;)

and just like Stephen Hawking's bet with Kip Thorne on Signus X-1, I'll be happy to lose this one - but my suspicion is that there's going to be very little overlap with the iMac Pro, and that the pricing structure will basically reflect a philosophy that the screen of the iMac Pro is a free screen, with a US$5k+ computer.

I don't want that to be the case, but for the life of me, I can't see how Apple will offer a machine that allows you to get better performance than an iMac Pro for less money, and they're not going to offer a lower specced machine than the iMac Pro in their hero product.
 
heh, apart from "i told you so" rights ;)
I don't want that to be the case, but for the life of me, I can't see how Apple will offer a machine that allows you to get better performance than an iMac Pro for less money, and they're not going to offer a lower specced machine than the iMac Pro in their hero product.

If indeed they pursue the 'modular' aspect to the extent that some people are theorizing, the idea of a fixed price might start to atomize somewhat, as you'd just get the components you needed.

So perhaps if they jettisoned the screen, keyboard, mouse (and maybe even speakers...?) from the official price tag, then you might be looking at a ~$4,000 entry level machine. But of course, you'd probably end up needing to bump it up to $6,000+ once you factor in the all-but-necessary peripherals - it just wouldn't show that price on the site.

But people who were sure they already had a good screen and so on might be able to get away with that $4k buy-in. It wouldn't really cannibalize iMP sales because it'd be the polar opposite of the iMP's all-in-one approach.

It'd basically be a ****-all-in-one instead.
 
My best guess: starting at $3999

The iMacPro starts at $4999, and the Cinema Display was typically $999.

I'd agree with that as a minimum price point for a Mac Pro with broadly the same specs as the iMac Pro.

From a marketing point of view I doubt they'd want it to scavenge iMac Pro sales by making a MP + 5k less than an iMP with comparable specs. However, I would not be surprised to see the base model priced above the base iMP - but with better specs.

They don't need to ask RED to join their 7,1 hardware project. As long as the 7,1 has standard PCIe slot, RED's hardware can fit inside the 7,1 properly.

...as long as the 7,1 has a Thunderbolt 3 port, RED's hardware can fit inside an external PCIe enclosure. Some would even argue that was an improvement, since you could now, potentially, hot-swap your expensive A/V hardware between machines. Does any of REDs hardware need more than 4 PCIe lanes?

Apple's "new investment into their Mac Pro hardware program" need not mean any more than the fact that there is going to be an iMac Pro and a new Mac Pro. Remember, 6 months ago, speculation was mounting that the Mac Pro line had been abandoned, Apple didn't even seem in any hurry to update the iMac, Tim Cook was asking why anybody would need anything more than an iPad and, for you Pros, here's an emoji bar on the MacBook Pro (but not 64GB RAM because that would mean we'd have to make it 2mm thicker - the horror!)

We seemed then to be heading for a world where Apple didn't make anything more powerful than an i7 iMac with a mobile GPU - which is kinda borderline for the sort of people who would be interested in RED hardware. That's really all that has changed - nobody has promised any internal PCIe slots and the iMac Pro clearly shows Apple's preference for sealed units.
 
The other factor is that Apple clearly see their "Real Pro" range (as distinct from MacBook Pro, iPad Pro etc.) as serious-callers-only products for commercial customers - many of whom will get their equipment on a 3-year lease, or otherwise write it off against tax after the 3 year service contract expires. (Possibly hence the panic shortly after the Mac Pro's third birthday). Those customers probably aren't so worried about mid-life upgrades as long as a new, improved version is available when the lease is up. It could, mainly, be the prosumer/enthusiast/hobbyist (even if they are "pros" during the day job) market that they disappoint.

I'm inclined to agree. I can't remember where, but a few years ago I read this article that stated Apple's customer data showed the vast majority of MacPro users never expanded or updated them. They'd buy the machine, use it for a couple of years and buy another one.

As for user-accessible PCIe, I think this post by VirtualRain four years ago summarizes it succinctly:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/my-essay-on-thunderbolt-ports-vs-pcie-slots.1625114/
 
I'm inclined to agree. I can't remember where, but a few years ago I read this article that stated Apple's customer data showed the vast majority of MacPro users never expanded or updated them. They'd buy the machine, use it for a couple of years and buy another one.

As for user-accessible PCIe, I think this post by VirtualRain four years ago summarizes it succinctly:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/my-essay-on-thunderbolt-ports-vs-pcie-slots.1625114/

Sadly this may be the truth. Even though we don't know the actual sales number of the Mac Pro. I can imagine most of the user don't even dare to open the side panel.

In fact, in a local Mac Facebook group. One of the Mac Pro user don't even know how to pull out the HDD. I was a bit surprised that he never read the manual, and never need any extra storage or RAM. The 5,1 still in vanilla condition since he bought it.

I believe the members here is just a very very small part of the whole Mac Pro group, we love to upgrade the Mac Pro doesn't mean that most Mac Pro users love to do that. For Apple, It's very reasonable that they listen to most of the customers, but not the relatively small group but very demanding Mac Pro users.
 
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Sadly this may be the truth. Even though we don't know the actual sales number of the Mac Pro. I can imagine most of the user don't even dare to open the side panel.
Even if end user never opens the panel, PCIe slots and upgradeable parts help to encourage a rich build-to-order experience.

For some workstation users, getting a custom build is very useful.
 
I'm more convinced that they are planning the following:

- ultra compact chassis
- 1200W PS
- 4 PCIe x 16 slots double spaced
- NVME storage only
- tons of TB3
- high speed external bus to matching expansion chassis chock full of PCIe slots

At this stage it wouldn't be conceding much to HP's Z800 series other than room for standard drives.
 
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