Risks of having macOS High Sierra after support ends

[davidlv]

Personally, I would avoid the "patcher" options of upgrading. I tried it on my 2012 MBP Core duo (with the DVD Drive) and it became unusable, it was so slow when trying to do anything in Catalina after the DosDude update. I went back to High Sierra which works great and upgraded from an HDD to an SSD. It became more like a new machine. Yes, the laptop is old and heavy, but with internet savvy browsing, it works fine.

Don't understand your statement "my 2012 MBP Core duo". MacTracker has the late 2011 MBP listed as model MacBookPro8,2 with an Intel Core i7 (2675QM, 2760QM, 2860QM) ("Sandy Bridge") running at 2.2, 2.5, or 2.5 GHz.
The Core duo models were much older, up to mid 2009.
I have one of those late 2011 MBPs and it is running High Sierra just fine, SilentKnight (https://eclecticlight.co/lockrattler-systhist/) picks up the latest xProtect etc, security stuff from Apple. So as you said, you can use these older models just fine with careful internet use.

 

[RogerWilco6502]

Don't understand your statement "my 2012 MBP Core duo". MacTracker has the late 2011 MBP listed as model MacBookPro8,2 with an Intel Core i7 (2675QM, 2760QM, 2860QM) ("Sandy Bridge") running at 2.2, 2.5, or 2.5 GHz.
The Core duo models were much older, up to mid 2009.
I have one of those late 2011 MBPs and it is running High Sierra just fine, SilentKnight (https://eclecticlight.co/lockrattler-systhist/) picks up the latest xProtect etc, security stuff from Apple. So as you said, you can use these older models just fine with careful internet use.

Actually the Core Duo models were only in some models of Macintosh made in '06. By '07 all models had Core 2 Duo CPUs and Apple continued to use those until around 2010/2011 IIRC.

I have an '09 MacBook that I run El Cap on and it runs just fine with antivirus

 

[K two]

Personally, I would avoid the "patcher" options of upgrading. I tried it on my 2012 MBP Core duo (with the DVD Drive) and it became unusable, it was so slow when trying to do anything in Catalina after the DosDude update. I went back to High Sierra which works great and upgraded from an HDD to an SSD. It became more like a new machine. Yes, the laptop is old and heavy, but with internet savvy browsing, it works fine.

There is no such 2012 MBP Core-Duo, they are either i5 or 17's. All 2012 MBP support up to Catalina, natively. Why would a patcher be required? @dosdude1 Patchers are quite reliable and updatable once installed. Tons of perfectly useable old Macs have been saved from the dumpster by employing these patchers. SilentKnight or LockRattler keeps X-Protect, GateKeeper and MRT current, which all that is really needed.

 

[jagolden]

This is strange and a bit 3rd world. The only problem that I had using internet banking with the older OS(Leopard) and older browsers (Safari and Firefox ESR), is that the website was not displayed properly but transactions were still going through.

That’s just dandy - for you.
I have run across many websites, mostly banking or medical, that demand the most up-to-date browser or particular browsers. Never saw one complain about OS.
I think the big takeaway from MacRumors is that many people have problems many others don’t, and many don’t have problems others do.

 

[avz]

That’s just dandy - for you.
I have run across many websites, mostly banking or medical, that demand the most up-to-date browser or particular browsers. Never saw one complain about OS.
I think the big takeaway from MacRumors is that many people have problems many others don’t, and many don’t have problems others do.

This is because technology is a very complex subject by nature and the best answer to any question related to technology is: “It depends.”

 

[Madhatter32]

Let's just put it like this: your computer is more secure when it is getting security updates from Apple. It is less secure when you are not getting such support. Proceed with caution.

 

[Cubytus]

[…]So, my solution each time I have tried using the unsupported MacOS tools is to save a bootable version of the old system, using a tool like SuperDuper.
The other problem I came across is that the built in MacOS update now in the App Store app no longer works on an unsupported version of the OS. To keep your OS up to date, you have to wait for the source of the patcher to issue a new version of the patcher, and install it again. […] Waiting on the release to the much talked about Macs based on the Apple silicon.

If you wanted to test a new version, it makes sense to keep a clone of the previous install. Problem is sometimes a new version isn't nice, but necessary. And, on the other hand, the user may not be in a position to dump 2.5K$ on a shiny new Mac. Worse, sometimes newer means regression: I recall that the 2018 MacBook wasn't more powerful than the 2012 MacBook Pro, all while being un-upgradeable an un-repairable, with the dreaded "butterfly" keyboard to ensure the shortest possible lifespan.

When you access your bank account, your OS version and browser version are checked, so it doenst matter if you are very careful or not.

Still sounds stupid to me. Even if they're technically right, wouldn't 2-factor authentication with a real, hardware TOTP defeat any flaw in the outdated browser? Not those spoofable TOTP through SMS.

[…]
I have an '09 MacBook that I run El Cap on and it runs just fine with antivirus

Had it for a while, just upgraded it to the less-outdated High sierra using dosdude1's patcher. Needed the newer OS for ProtonMail. Actuellay doesn't appear to run slower than El Capitan.

That’s just dandy - for you.
I have run across many websites, mostly banking or medical, that demand the most up-to-date browser or particular browsers. […]

Some websites don't even know what "up to date" means. With this "agile" development quasi-religious followers, even one big-name apparently forgot that iOS 12.5.4 is an up-to-date OS from a security point of view, as was Firefox ESR 78.x.y two weeks ago.

 

[Urtuluk]

I suppose all the mac machines use Xprotect as built in antivirus software. If Xprotect updated on High Sierra like Monterey, how it is not secure? or why Monterey more secure than HS if built in security systems updated as if they are same OS?

 

[Cubytus]

The point is, although I'm quite sure they technically could issue security updates separately, Apple doesn't update older XProtect versions. It's an all-or-nothing situation, though they DID issue emergency updates for older systems once in a while (I recall that iOS 6.1.6 was an update long after iOS 7 was released, as was iOS 12.5.4 after the release of iOS 14). May not apply to Mac OS X, though.

 

[davidlv]

The point is, although I'm quite sure they technically could issue security updates separately, Apple doesn't update older XProtect versions. It's an all-or-nothing situation, though they DID issue emergency updates for older systems once in a while (I recall that iOS 6.1.6 was an update long after iOS 7 was released, as was iOS 12.5.4 after the release of iOS 14). May not apply to Mac OS X, though.

I have an older late 2011 MBP 15" laptop that can only run High Sierra, nothing later. Still, running Silentknight, Xprotect and gatekeeper have been updated to the same versions seen on my 2014 iMac running Big Sur with all the latest updates, ie., version 11.6.1. So I don't know what you mean when you say "Apple doesn't update older XProtect versions". Maybe there is a limit, and any OS before High Sierra may not get the updates, but my High Sierra machine has.

 

[Urtuluk]

I have an older late 2011 MBP 15" laptop that can only run High Sierra, nothing later. Still, running Silentknight, Xprotect and gatekeeper have been updated to the same versions seen on my 2014 iMac running Big Sur with all the latest updates, ie., version 11.6.1. So I don't know what you mean when you say "Apple doesn't update older XProtect versions". Maybe there is a limit, and any OS before High Sierra may not get the updates, but my High Sierra machine has.

As I said before, Xprotect, MRT and Gatekeeper takes latest update on High Sierra as if it is latest OS. But designer of Silentknight, Howard Oakley says that their security procedure, their working mechanism is not alike. It is about notarization issue. When launching apps on High Sierra has only one-time checking by Xprotect. Xprotect checks everytime when you launch apps on other OSs:

Calling time on High Sierra

If your Mac still starts up in 10.13, now’s the time to start planning your upgrade when Apple’s support for it discontinues. Pros and cons.

eclecticlight.co

 

[Cubytus]

[…]So I don't know what you mean when you say "Apple doesn't update older XProtect versions". Maybe there is a limit, and any OS before High Sierra may not get the updates, but my High Sierra machine has.

As I understand it, all the software you listed extract those updates and allow the end user to apply them. Apple doesn't officially releases them for older OSes, though they apparently remain compatible for a while.

 

[amgff84]

I'm going to update this thread with an interesting suggestions that hopefully has not been mentioned already. Basically, I would try this out on a spare drive, and if you like it and it works out, then you can install on your normal drive.

Install Mojave patcher by DosDude. You can now Bootcamp Windows 10. You are now supported until 2025 on Windows 10 with your old machine.

 

[opeter]

Or you can install a Linux distribution, that will be supported even longer. For web browsing etc, it will be still usable for a long time. It can happen, that your computer will fail hardware wise sooner, than it won't get any software support anymore.

 

[amgff84]

Or you can install a Linux distribution, that will be supported even longer. For web browsing etc, it will be still usable for a long time. It can happen, that your computer will fail hardware wise sooner, than it won't get any software support anymore.

I’ve tried a dozen or so Linux distros on this computer and every single one has issues. Anything from overheating to sleep issues. Windows 10 on Bootcamp works 100%. It’s probably something to do with dual switching graphics and how apple does it differently. I’m guessing I wouldn’t have those issues on an older 13” with Intel graphics.

 

[ps866mker]

I’ve tried a dozen or so Linux distros on this computer and every single one has issues. Anything from overheating to sleep issues. Windows 10 on Bootcamp works 100%. It’s probably something to do with dual switching graphics and how apple does it differently. I’m guessing I wouldn’t have those issues on an older 13” with Intel graphics.

Agree with you. Also tried this and nothing runs as well as OSX. I suggest doing the patcher route if you still want to use the machine.

 

[timidpimpin]

I’ve tried a dozen or so Linux distros on this computer and every single one has issues. Anything from overheating to sleep issues. Windows 10 on Bootcamp works 100%. It’s probably something to do with dual switching graphics and how apple does it differently. I’m guessing I wouldn’t have those issues on an older 13” with Intel graphics.

Macs are the most proprietary hardware on earth, and therefore the worst systems to install Linux or any other type of OS that isn't made by Apple.

 

[amgff84]

Macs are the most proprietary hardware on earth, and therefore the worst systems to install Linux or any other type of OS that isn't made by Apple.

I understand that, it was a response to someone who suggested I install Linux on the machine to have a current system. This was in response to my suggestion to install DodDude Mojave Patcher so you can Bootcamp Win10 on a 2010 17" MBP.

 

[opeter]

Well, a few years ago, I had Linux Mint installed on a 2009 Mac mini, that was used for video playback of MP4 files and DVDs. I didn't encounter bigger problems in that time.

 

[amgff84]

Well, a few years ago, I had Linux Mint installed on a 2009 Mac mini, that was used for video playback of MP4 files and DVDs. I didn't encounter bigger problems in that time.

More recent distros aren’t working well. Either driver issues or other compatibility issues. The last fully working distro I can get on my two MacBooks is Ubuntu 14.06 or other distros using that base. It’s a shame because I was going to switch to PopOS on one of them. I even had a custom vinyl cover made that incorporated the apple logo into the pop os logo.

 

[opeter]

More recent distros aren’t working well. Either driver issues or other compatibility issues. The last fully working distro I can get on my two MacBooks is Ubuntu 14.06 or other distros using that base. It’s a shame because I was going to switch to PopOS on one of them. I even had a custom vinyl cover made that incorporated the apple logo into the pop os logo.

Thanks for this information. Didn't know modern Apple computers are so locked down.

 

[Cubytus]

Or you can install a Linux distribution, that will be supported even longer. For web browsing etc, it will be still usable for a long time. It can happen, that your computer will fail hardware wise sooner, than it won't get any software support anymore.

Depends on the computer. Those older Macs were built to last. Sure they have received their share of unintended damage (drops and bumps), but since they're repairable…

Oh the so-called "Linux a la rescate", I don't buy it anymore. In theory, yes, Linux can help extract more life out of outdated hardware. But is it worth it? As @amgff84 points it:

I’ve tried a dozen or so Linux distros on this computer and every single one has issues. Anything from overheating to sleep issues. Windows 10 on Bootcamp works 100%. It’s probably something to do with dual switching graphics and how apple does it differently. I’m guessing I wouldn’t have those issues on an older 13” with Intel graphics.

My most recent experience with Linux on non-free hardware:
2008: Ubuntu on HP computer with ATI graphics: a week fighting against the driver before finally finding a solution. Had to use it because I was dealing with monstrous cellsheets at the time, and Ubuntu was simply better at managing RAM than Windows XP. Didn't have the money for a Mac back then.
2009-2012: Exclusively used MacBook and MacBook pro. Didn't have the need for Linux since the Linux pieces of software I was using were ported to Mac OS X.
2018: Ubuntu Mate on LG computer. Many tweaks performed, lost the count of them, but shows tons of warnings and error dialogs on first opening session. Doesn't really hamper functionality, but annoying nevertheless. Don't have time to deal with it anymore.
2022: Mint can't even fully work "out of the box" on a plain, Acer-branded computer just because it happens to use an nVidia graphics chip. Tried to repair it, asking questions on forums, back and forth, until I didn't have the time to deal with it anymore. Problem unsolved, computer taking up dust in a corner.

For me, the most comfortable Linux experience has been in VirtualBox. As long as I don't forget to make a snapshot before any delicate procedure, it's fine. Otherwise, even with all the good will of the volunteers spending all their time helping others on forums, sometimes one just needs to get work done, not tinkering endlessly.

And, what's the point of using a Mac to run Windows? Back then the MacBook Pro was touted as "the most comfortable PC to run Windows on", or something of the sort, but unless one only has enough money for one computer, there are more versatile machines to run Windows on.

 

[murgpegel]

While linux mint is working fine for me on non-Apple devices, SUSE gave me the best experience yet for macbook/macbook pro devices even with a secondary Nvidia. But, battery runtime and video performance are mediocre compared to macos. Elementary failed completely as well as plain Ubuntu, Debian. I still need to test Fedora/Redhat.

 

[avz]

Good to see that High Sierra is still receiving some critical updates.