RX480 v. RX580 for Mojave

[Johnkray]

I just stated my opinion based on the experience with the 2 cards. I see no real reason to use 2.2 slot card when I can use 2 slot card and provide better cooling. Sometimes I leave the GT-120 card in the second slot for boot screen. I rarely need it, because I set up my system to boot from any hard drive from within OSX into an EFI partition (not the BootCAMP or the Startup DIsk). I can also switch from the windows 10 (EFI mode) back to OSX initiating the startup disk from within the Bootcamp on Windows. I can also boot in the recovery partition without the boot screen using the same procedure. The only inconvenience is that after every major upgrade I have to disable SIP so my script will work. Of course It would be absolutely wonderful if Apple provides the boot screen to RX 400/500 cards. And there is the new Refit bootloader which I gotta try as well. I am really glad Apple provided support for these cards.

 

[h9826790]

A card which is using Ellesmere (Polaris 10) and has only 6 pins is definitely not an RX580 with Polaris 20 with 6+8 pin.

RX 580 ref = 185W.

RX 580 factory OC = 225+

PCI-I = 75W

8pin = 150W

6pin = 75W

IMO, Polaris 10 or Polaris 20 is just the AMD marketing strategy. They are the same thing. Just like HD7950 and R9 280X.

Anyway, the reference RX580 only has a single 8pin, no 6pin on PCB.

That 6+8pin 2.2 slot wide RX580 sounds like the Nitro+. If you get the PULSE RX580. It will be 2 slot wide, and only has a single 8pin input.

Also, there is no standard about "factory OC RX580 = 225W+"

In fact, AMD officially stated the RX580 (OEM) spec on their web site, the base clock can go as low as 1120MHz, and boost clock as low as 1266MHz. Which is identical to the RX480's default setting.

IMO, if AMD agree this, and the Dell's card can ident itself as a RX580 in Windows. It is a RX580. Of course, we know that it is the same as RX480, but that's AMD's issue. They make the same GPU has 2 different names. Not Dell.

In macOS, the ident is very cosmetic, the system only load drivers base on the Device ID. And both RX480 and RX580 has the exact same Device ID (67DF). They are effectively the same thing in macOS.

When I pick my RX580. I also avoid the Nitro+ despite it has dual ROM design and better cooling. I end up still pick the PULSE. It fits better in the cMP.

Anyway, even you are now with the Dell RX580 OEM. For your info, the Nitro+ RX580's 6pin is optional. You can only plug in the 8pin, and the card will run flawlessly.

AFAIK, the only real difference between RX480 and RX580 is that the RX480 was programmed to able to draw more than 75W from the slot. It was a big big problem when it was launched. And AMD using driver update to "fix" the issue. Since we don't have such driver. That means, a RX480 generally not a good option for cMP users (is macOS). But if Dell give it a new firmware to make it a RX580. This problem most likely is fixed.

However, if your RX580 OEM is really perform exactly the same as RX480. Then you may want to return this card, and get a "real" RX580. There is no damage report from the cMP users group yet. But in the gaming PC world, there are numerous reports about the RX480 fried their motherboard. May be that's because they OCed the card, who knows? But a reference RX480 can draw more than 75W from the PCIe slot is a well known fact. You better avoid it if you really suspect your card is actually a RX480.

 

[Johnkray]

That is an interesting point. I read somewhere that this card's power draw was limited in the ROM to 135W. It was sold in a system not as a loose item and it was definitely advertised as an RX580. If you say they are identified in the mac by their ID and they have the same ID's how is then one determined as RX480 and the other as RX580? The current mac firmware does not control well the card's fan, because it doesn't recognize the temperature on the card. I have performed AHT and it failed in that point. When I am using GT-120 or the original HD5770 AHT does not fail. I really hope they fixed that in the new firmware. I am not sure if they look for an EFI rom in the card or not.

 

[orph]

it's the same card, id trust windows to identify a card more than OSX.
(and the RX 480 is the same as a RX 580, you can even flash a 480 to 580, was mostly just a PCB upgrade in genral)

Dell is big, all the parts they sell will be "safe" & reliable hey wont sell fireballs that give them a lot of RMA's.

the hole power thing was blown out of proportion. AHOC (that youtuber i linked to) did a video on it saying something like "your safe unless you want to crossfire 4 cards" + "the PCI slot is fine it's where the power supply plugs in to the mobo that is the problem"
almost all reports of problems i have see are from miners with all pci slots full 24/7 use.

also just want to add gpu's control the fans speed automatically independent of the os (same on windows/linux) unless you are using software to override the gpu fan control.

AHT will never see the card, it's not an apple card! apple just will support the rx 580 pulse and XFX rx 580 something (it's on a apple support page if you want to know what cards they do suport but only up to a point)

id be more concerned about the last user of the card badly mining with it or no warranty than dell RX580 being 100mhz slower or something

 

[h9826790]

That is an interesting point. I read somewhere that this card's power draw was limited in the ROM to 135W. It was sold in a system not as a loose item and it was definitely advertised as an RX580. If you say they are identified in the mac by their ID and they have the same ID's how is then one determined as RX480 and the other as RX580? The current mac firmware does not control well the card's fan, because it doesn't recognize the temperature on the card. I have performed AHT and it failed in that point. When I am using GT-120 or the original HD5770 AHT does not fail. I really hope they fixed that in the new firmware. I am not sure if they look for an EFI rom in the card or not.

AHT of course can't read the RX580's sensors, the 5,1 AHT was written back in 2010, and extremely hardware specific. How can that read a unsupported 2017 GPU's sensor?

And wrong, macOS can read the RX580's temperature, all you need is just enter the command in terminal (I do that in automator for auto refreshing, but still the same command).

I don't know how macOS ident the card, but the driver is loaded base on the Device ID, not the ident. That's why I said the ident is cosmetic. There was a long time that the ident doesn't even work, but the GPU can work flawlessly.

If you want to know the power draw limit. You can PM me the ROM image, I can open it and have a look.

 

[Johnkray]

AHT of course can't read the RX580's sensors, the 5,1 AHT was written back in 2010, and extremely hardware specific. How can that read a unsupported 2017 GPU's sensor?

And wrong, macOS can read the RX580's temperature, all you need is just enter the command in terminal (I do that in automator for auto refreshing, but still the same command).
View attachment 783177

I don't know how macOS ident the card, but the driver is loaded base on the Device ID, not the ident. That's why I said the ident is cosmetic. There was a long time that the ident doesn't even work, but the GPU can work flawlessly.

If you want to know the power draw limit. You can PM me the ROM image, I can open it and have a look.

Ok Thanks the ROM disassembly is attached. But even in the Sierra the card was running damn hot sitting at Idle, not until I forced the fans through the MFC the temp dropped down.

 

[orph]

what is hot?

 

[bsbeamer]

If looking at AMD cards released around the same time as NVIDIA counterpart/competitor, the AMD will typically run warmer and is less efficient with cooling when used in a Mac Pro tower. The AMDs are typically more power hungry and many implement a dual-fan system which does not work as well when multiple PCIe cards are being used in a Mac Pro tower.

If you've loaded up your system with 4+ spinning HDDs and other heat generating PCIe card(s), would seriously monitor your temperatures and look at better designed (for Mac Pro) RX 580 cards. Eliminating spinning HDDs from the system and using only SSD PCIe adapters, USB3 PCIe cards, and similar PCIe options, there is a lot less heat being generated and virtually no moving parts added. The system cooling works fine with this setup for nearly any (standard internally powered) AMD or NVIDIA cards.

The NVIDIA GTX 1080 FE card design with single fan at that position is very close to the original 5770/5870 available for MacPro5,1 machines. The official EVGA GTX 680 Mac Edition is almost identical to the GTX 1080 FE in general layout, size, and positioning. Both of those cards work near flawlessly in macOS with NVIDIA Web Drivers. I rarely hear the GTX 1080 FE fans when it's fully engaged and the cooling system works really well for an all-in-one design without adding extra fans or modules.

100% understand why people are looking at RX 580 designs that are closer to the GTX 680/1080, but the Sapphire PULSE RX 580 is what Apple recommends. Additionally, it is becoming extremely difficult to find ANY new RX 580 from the usual reputable sellers that are not nearly identical to the Sapphire PULSE RX 580 8GB style design/layout. The only RX 580 OEM Radeon style single fan cards are either used, system pulls, or from random sellers. (Some are better than others.)

At under $250 USD for a brand new Sapphire PULSE RX 580 8GB GPU that is officially recommended and could likely be the last you'll buy for this machine, it seems like a drop in the bucket and easy decision for the majority of people.

 

[Johnkray]

what is hot?

 

[h9826790]

Ok Thanks I will send you the rom. But even in the Sierra the card was running damn hot sitting at Idle, not until I forced the fans through the MFC the temp dropped down.

View attachment 783304

Your screen capture shows nothing about the GPU temperature.

As I said before, you can use this command in terminal to read the GPU temperature.

ioreg -l |grep \"PerformanceStatistics\" | cut -d '{' -f 2 | tr '|' ',' | tr -d '}' | tr ',' '\n'|grep 'Temp\|Fan\|%\|(W)\|Hz'

The result should looks like this.

Anyway, for human being, 50C is quite warm to touch already. But for graphic card, 50C is cool. And your card's fan should be programmed not to turn on until certain temperature (e.g. my card is 40C). Therefore, even nearly idle, it can still be quite warm to touch. And it is absolutely normal for this generation's GPU.

Last but not least, it will be much easier for me to read if you send me the graphic card's ROM image, but not the data via DarwinDumper.

 

[orph]

your temperatures look fine, there the same as mine basically.
yours are a tad hotter but your ambient is 33c and mine is 26c so in proportion to your hotter climate the temperatures are the same.

if your GPU hits 100c then you have to look in to it, it's designed to run around 80c + as you have a reference style cooler on your card it will just dump hot air out of the case, that is the kind of card a macpro was designed for.
ie it actually will aid in cooling the macpro.

 

[Johnkray]

Your screen capture shows nothing about the GPU temperature.

As I said before, you can use this command in terminal to read the GPU temperature.

ioreg -l |grep \"PerformanceStatistics\" | cut -d '{' -f 2 | tr '|' ',' | tr -d '}' | tr ',' '\n'|grep 'Temp\|Fan\|%\|(W)\|Hz'

The result should looks like this.
View attachment 783321

Anyway, for human being, 50C is quite warm to touch already. But for graphic card, 50C is cool. And your card's fan should be programmed not to turn on until certain temperature (e.g. my card is 40C). Therefore, even nearly idle, it can still be quite warm to touch. And it is absolutely normal for this generation's GPU.

"Device Utilization %"=0

"Fan Speed(%)"=19

"Core Clock(MHz)"=1165

"Memory Clock(MHz)"=2000

"GPU Activity(%)"=0

"Fan Speed(RPM)"=626

"Temperature(C)"=49

"Total Power(W)"=68

I thought IOH diode temperature was affected by the proximity of the GPU card. CPU's I made sure to put the proper thermal paste.
By the way I put the decoded ROM in my previous post

 

[h9826790]

"Device Utilization %"=0

"Fan Speed(%)"=19

"Core Clock(MHz)"=1165

"Memory Clock(MHz)"=2000

"GPU Activity(%)"=0

"Fan Speed(RPM)"=626

"Temperature(C)"=49

"Total Power(W)"=68

I thought IOH diode temperature was affected by the proximity of the GPU card. CPU's I made sure to put the proper thermal paste.
By the way I put the decoded ROM in my previous post

You RX580's temperature is absolutely normal, as you can see, same range as mine.

The IOH is on the CPU tray, nowhere near the RX580. For 33C system ambient temperature, 76C also very normal for the dual processor cMP.

 

[Johnkray]

what is hot?

You RX580's temperature is absolutely normal, as you can see, same range as mine.

The IOH is on the CPU tray, nowhere near the RX580. For 33C system ambient temperature, 76C also very normal for the dual processor cMP.

So you think it is safe to be at 76C at idle?

You RX580's temperature is absolutely normal, as you can see, same range as mine.

The IOH is on the CPU tray, nowhere near the RX580. For 33C system ambient temperature, 76C also very normal for the dual processor cMP.

So you think it is safe to be at 76C at idle? With this fan configuration it falls to 62:

 

[orph]

when you say 76c are you talking about the RX 580 or the IOH?

this is getting off topic now from RX 480 v 580, if your talking about the IOH may be worth doing some searches on the forum

 

[h9826790]

By the way I put the decoded ROM in my previous post

This is your RX580's setting

And this is my RX580's native setting.

As expected, your card's fan won't spin up until 40C, that's why you feel it's hot even at idle. That's the default setting, same as my card.

And your card's target temperature is 80C, which means, when the GPU is below 80C, the fan will only spin up a little bit (may be around 1300RPM). Until the GPU approaching 80C, then the fan will spin faster and faster to try to keep it at 80C. Once the fan speed reach 2200RPM, the GPU temperature will continue to go up, until it hit the max temperature 90C. bBut unless your ambient temperature is abnormally high. The card should not able to reach 90C due to its power draw is limited. But it should stabilise somewhere between 80C and 90C.

Your card shows that its default max power draw is 110W, however, with 50% "flexibility". In my observation, it means the card can draw up to 110x1.5 = ~180W in macOS. I am not 100% sure if there is any other constrain in the VBIOS to limit the card not to draw more than 75W from the slot or the 6pin (I bet NO, that's why the RX480 suffer from the power draw gate when it launched). In general, you should not able to reach this power draw in any real world applications, but if you run Furmark, I expect you can see 180W. In any case, you better run some reasonable benchmarks (e.g. Luxmark, Unigine Heaven, etc), and monitor if the card draw too much.

Anyway, your card ident itself as Polaris 10 in the ROM, I bet this is why macOS ident it as RX480. But since its Device ID is 67DF, it will use the same kext as any other RX580 does.

 

[SneakyTLoD]

On auto with ambient at 30C my IOH sits at 76C. So yeah, that's pretty normal. If you wanna see the IOH drop you should setup the boosta fan. It's a bit quieter than ramping intake and exhaust from my experience. I personally setup my fans with the exhaust and intake set to ramp on memory temps and boosta to IOH. Your memory looks pretty cool so you could probably stick with just the boosta and keep the rest on auto.

 

[h9826790]

So you think it is safe to be at 76C at idle? With this fan configuration it falls to 62:

View attachment 783384

I don't know why you keep mentioning the IOH temperature which has absolutely nothing to do with the GPU's temperature.

If you want to know more about the IOH, you can read this document

https://www.intel.com/content/dam/w...atasheets/5520-5500-chipset-ioh-datasheet.pdf

 

[Johnkray]

This is your RX580's setting
View attachment 783377

And this is my RX580's native setting.
View attachment 783378

As expected, your card's fan won't spin up until 40C, that's why you feel it's hot even at idle. That's the default setting, same as my card.

And your card's target temperature is 80C, which means, when the GPU is below 80C, the fan will only spin up a little bit (may be around 1300RPM). Until the GPU approaching 80C, then the fan will spin faster and faster to try to keep it at 80C. Once the fan speed reach 2200RPM, the GPU temperature will continue to go up, until it hit the max temperature 90C. bBut unless your ambient temperature is abnormally high. The card should not able to reach 90C due to its power draw is limited. But it should stabilise somewhere between 80C and 90C.

Your card shows that its default max power draw is 110W, however, with 50% "flexibility". In my observation, it means the card can draw up to 110x1.5 = ~180W in macOS. I am not 100% sure if there is any other constrain in the VBIOS to limit the card not to draw more than 75W from the slot or the 6pin (I bet NO, that's why the RX480 suffer from the power draw gate when it launched). In general, you should not able to reach this power draw in any real world applications, but if you run Furmark, I expect you can see 180W. In any case, you better run some reasonable benchmarks (e.g. Luxmark, Unigine Heaven, etc), and monitor if the card draw too much.

Anyway, your card ident itself as Polaris 10 in the ROM, I bet this is why macOS ident it as RX480. But since its Device ID is 67DF, it will use the same kext as any other RX580 does.

Thanks a lot for your help. It looks like mine is running at 50C (while yours is at 40C) at Idle due to the single small fan onboard. And is limited to 110W. Nevertheless I have connected it to the 2 6pin connectors which should give me around 120W in theory from each plus 75W from the PCI slot which is plenty of power. My real concern is the temperature not only in the card but also the overall temperature, because all internal temperatures depend on each other as well as on the air flow.

 

[h9826790]

Thanks a lot for your help. It looks like mine is running at 50C (while yours is at 40C) at Idle due to the single small fan onboard. And is limited to 110W. Nevertheless I have connected it to the 2 6pin connectors which should give me around 120W in theory from each plus 75W from the PCI slot which is plenty of power. My real concern is the temperature not only in the card but also the overall temperature, because all internal temperatures depend on each other as well as on the air flow.

Yes they do, but in the case of cMP, the PCIe compartment can hardly affect the CPU cage's temperature. Warm air is very hard to go down, plus the CPU cage is almost separated from the PCIe compartment. The GPU is really really had to warm up the CPU or IOH. Even my open fan type 1080Ti can't do that. Your blower type RX580 should be quite impossible to make any noticeable difference to the CPU cage's component temperature.