S3 First Run Review and Some Questions...

[Trent0341]

Here are the number of readings per minute:

9:10 - 8

9:11 - 8

9:12 - 5

9:13 - 7

9:14 - 6

9:15 - 6

9:16 - 4

9:17 - 12

9:18 - 12

9:19 - 11

9:20 - 13

9:21 - 12

9:22 - 12

9:23 - 11

9:24 - 12

9:25 - 13

9:26 - 12

9:27 - 12

9:28 - 12

9:29 - 11

9:30 - 12
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how is the GPS accuracy? i've read bad things about AW and GPS

Very accurate judging by the map it created of my run. I'm assuming YMMV based on location... I was in a park so it has previously been hit an miss. Being that I have only run with it once I can't really speak to long term performance.
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How was the heart rate data in the workout app? did it seem slow to update? I just went for run and it wasn’t nearly as fast to update my heart rate, sometimes I looked and it was not showing my heart rate at all.

Looking back through previous runs on my series 2 the charts/data was perfect without missing data. Now I’m seeing missing data where it was trying to update but didn’t. In HR show all data, it shows some missing minutes and some only have a few readings a minute, on series 2 it had at least 12 readings every single minute in a run.

See above for the readings my watched picked up by minute. It seemed to do pretty good once I got into the run.

So u ran with air pods and they didn’t fall?
My regular Apple headphones that come in the box or “used” to come in the box fall every 2 feet.

Also, so you ran on LTE and only lost 18% battery life? Were you running a fitness app to see how far you ran etc which requires GPS?

Also, we can’t stream ANY music as of right now?

I wonder if battery life will drain if Spotify EVER releases one for the AW.

It never even felt like they were going to fall out. Being that they are one size fits all YMMV.

I was using apples work out app. GPS was being used (as well as LTE) based on the fact it tracked my run (and, as I said above very accurately).

As far as I can tell we cannot stream music... but I do not have Spotify since I use apple music and something tells me that if apple doesn't allow apple music on the AW it isn't going to allow Spotify. I could be wrong but I have no way of testing that.

 

[DeepIn2U]

One way I verified that it was on wifi (versus LTE) is that I put my phone in airplane mode at my house. My watch has a wifi symbol when I swipe up indicating it is on wifi... When I turn airplane mode back off the wifi symbol goes away and a green phone icon appears in its place. I will try to post a screen shot from my watch later if that doesn't explain it adequately.

The track is paused when I activate Siri and restarted when I am complete

Not worried about the streaming bill but you may have a point for some.

I just took a quick walk around the block without my phone just to see how things worked and this was one of the things I tried. I had music playing from the watch through my AirPods and I could lift the watch and say “hey Siri” and the music would pause, then resume after the interaction with Siri finished. I also tried to dictate a reply to a text message and again, as soon as I hit the mic button to start dictation the music paused and then resumed after I finished. It worked quite well I thought.

Much appreciated guys!!

 

[SR 7]

They don’t allow Apple Music on the watch either? WHAT? Why? That’s stupid.

I wonder why they claim 1 hour on LTE if u got 18% usage only. That’s a huge difference.

 

[BrettDS]

They don’t allow Apple Music on the watch either? WHAT? Why? That’s stupid.

I wonder why they claim 1 hour on LTE if u got 18% usage only. That’s a huge difference.

I believe that they announced that Apple Music is coming to the watch soon, but it wasn’t ready for the launch

And the 1 hour number is 1 hour of talk time for a phone call on LTE. Not just a hour with the LTE modem active.

 

[betabeta]

Here are the number of readings per minute:

9:10 - 8

9:11 - 8

9:12 - 5

9:13 - 7

9:14 - 6

9:15 - 6

9:16 - 4

9:17 - 12

9:18 - 12

9:19 - 11

9:20 - 13

9:21 - 12

9:22 - 12

9:23 - 11

9:24 - 12

9:25 - 13

9:26 - 12

9:27 - 12

9:28 - 12

9:29 - 11

9:30 - 12

See above for the readings my watched picked up by minute. It seemed to do pretty good once I got into the run.

Thanks, that’s interesting, looks like normal after the first few minutes, I’m wondering if it adjust the light based on the difficulty in obtaining a reading. Maybe it starts out with a lower light setting and increases it to get the best accuracy with the lowest light? Maybe the light is constant, I just don’t know, but looking at that it appeared to adjust something. Gives me some hope.

I’ll have to see with more use, hopefully mine becomes more inline with my AW2.

 

[musicpenguy]

Curious how many times the new watch pings the GPS really want it to get to every second so the current pace is more accurate.

 

[deeddawg]

Curious how many times the new watch pings the GPS really want it to get to every second so the current pace is more accurate.

Current pace from GPS is problematic even with Garmins. Best option is something which can read from a footpod.

Don't have AW3, but AW2 seems to record GPS locations every ten seconds. Curious if that changes.

how is the GPS accuracy? i've read bad things about AW and GPS

My AW2 has been on par with my Garmin FR235 in ever run where I've had both (one each wrist)
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The AirPods are really good about getting wet. I’ve run mine through the washing machine twice and they still work like normal.

Nice to know. I'm just a bit gunshy about spending a bunch on something not specced as sweatproof (unless I've missed something). Currently using Mpow Cheetah headphones and have been impressed at the longevity in heavy sweat during Georgia summer lunchtime runs. Especially for ~$24 - https://www.amazon.com/Mpow-Headphones-Nano-coating-Sweatproof-Hands-free/dp/B0171F4SIQ

 

[Trent0341]

Thanks, that’s interesting, looks like normal after the first few minutes, I’m wondering if it adjust the light based on the difficulty in obtaining a reading. Maybe it starts out with a lower light setting and increases it to get the best accuracy with the lowest light? Maybe the light is constant, I just don’t know, but looking at that it appeared to adjust something. Gives me some hope.

I’ll have to see with more use, hopefully mine becomes more inline with my AW2.

Those are some good questions. I’ll pay attention to it over the next couple runs and see if there’s that initial “warm up” period. Your theory makes sense (it adjust the brightness of the light) but I don’t know either.

 

[mk313]

Curious how many times the new watch pings the GPS really want it to get to every second so the current pace is more accurate.

When the series 2 first came out, they said the gps pinged every 4 seconds.

 

[deeddawg]

When the series 2 first came out, they said the gps pinged every 4 seconds.

Don't know about that one way or the other, but the data files pulled from NRC by RunGap show a location entry every ten seconds. Perhaps the watch reads the location more often and logs it less frequently.

*shrug* For a non-competitive runner it gets the job done well enough. Let's keep perspective on what really matters in how we'll use the data logged. I'd suggest a truly competitive level runner would be utilizing a Garmin or Polar or Suunto device over an Apple Watch simply for the other data elements those provide. So not really a ding against Apple who clearly targets more of the "common folks" than the extreme-case 1% despite the toned glistening flat-abdomen models used in the marketing images.

 

[mk313]

Yah, there was a post on here a few weeks ago that linked to a story about how Nike changed their data export to only output in 10 second increments. It makes the data in other apps look less precise than what you see in the Nike app/web site. I only use the Nike site so I can't verify this myself, and I'm not at all a competitive runner so which ever one it is works fine for me.

 

[musicpenguy]

I wouldn’t call 1 seconds GPS pings a specialty feature, it’s a feature that provides the runner a accurate current pace. Something any skill level should have access to.

I’d rather not buy a Garmin as it should be unnecessary, data wise they are collecting the same thing, just currently with different frequency.

 

[Trent0341]

I wouldn’t call 1 seconds GPS pings a specialty feature, it’s a feature that provides the runner a accurate current pace. Something any skill level should have access to.

I’d rather not buy a Garmin as it should be unnecessary, data wise they are collecting the same thing, just currently with different frequency.

Once every ten seconds does seem a bit slow... I would at least like the rate to pick up when the GPS was being used to map a run and/or for pace. I will say this, that previously (I didn't look enough on this last run) the apple watch has seemed behind when I alter my pace.

Another frustrating bit is that if it only registers once every 10 seconds, when I do 400s (admittedly rarely these days but that will pick back up) that could actually lead to pretty decent variances.

 

[deeddawg]

I wouldn’t call 1 seconds GPS pings a specialty feature, it’s a feature that provides the runner a accurate current pace.

GPS based current pace sucks typically, even at 1s recording intervals, simply due to the variance in your location fix.

Consider even at a 7min/mi pace you're covering about 12.6 feet per second distance. GPS accuracy is considered pretty good if it gets your location to within 3 meters (10 feet) radius. If you move a 10ft wide dart board at ~12ft/second and throw darts at it randomly just how evenly spaced will those dart locations be? As such the purely GPS watches perform a smoothing on the data samples to average out the pace. The only good way to get an "instantaneous" pace is via footpod.

Once every ten seconds does seem a bit slow... I would at least like the rate to pick up when the GPS was being used to map a run and/or for pace.

Based on running with the AW2 side by side my Garmin, I'm pretty sure it's sampling much more often than every 10sec. It's just writing data points with that frequency. My AW2 is pretty much equivalent to my Garmin for pace and distance, within normal-to-expect variance.

I will say this, that previously (I didn't look enough on this last run) the apple watch has seemed behind when I alter my pace.

Garmins without a footpod do the same. See above discussion of smoothing.
EDIT: accelerometer in the watch can help with this as well, which is what is used in some of the more recent Garmin watches.

do 400s (admittedly rarely these days but that will pick back up) that could actually lead to pretty decent variances.

Yep, again same thing with other GPS watches. When I've done interval training and wanted to be specific as to the distance, I go to the nearby high-school track.

 

[zhenya]

GPS based current pace sucks typically, even at 1s recording intervals, simply due to the variance in your location fix.

Consider even at a 7min/mi pace you're covering about 12.6 feet per second distance. GPS accuracy is considered pretty good if it gets your location to within 3 meters (10 feet) radius. If you move a 10ft wide dart board at ~12ft/second and throw darts at it randomly just how evenly spaced will those dart locations be? As such the purely GPS watches perform a smoothing on the data samples to average out the pace. The only good way to get an "instantaneous" pace is via footpod.

My Garmin 225 is quite good under most conditions at instantaneous pace - typically with 10-15 seconds of actual pace, and when it’s off it’s pretty clear because it’s by a lot. It generally even works ok in the heavily wooded trails I frequent. I suspect they use the accelerometer in the device to perform the same function as the foot pod as arm swings are equivalent to steps.

 

[deeddawg]

My Garmin 225 is quite good under most conditions at instantaneous pace - typically with 10-15 seconds of actual pace, and when it’s off it’s pretty clear because it’s by a lot. It generally even works ok in the heavily wooded trails I frequent. I suspect they use the accelerometer in the device to perform the same function as the foot pod as arm swings are equivalent to steps.

Agreed, that seems to be what Garmin is doing. Read the early posts on the Garmin forums and you'll see it took them a while to dial it in. No reason Apple can't do similar if they don't already. My point being that GPS alone doesn't do well for "instant" pace, and needs something to augment it. Nature of the technology of comparing time-difference in signal arrival from satellites thousands of miles away.

 

[Trent0341]

Agreed, that seems to be what Garmin is doing. Read the early posts on the Garmin forums and you'll see it took them a while to dial it in. No reason Apple can't do similar if they don't already. My point being that GPS alone doesn't do well for "instant" pace, and needs something to augment it. Nature of the technology of comparing time-difference in signal arrival from satellites thousands of miles away.

That really puts it in perspective for me... pretty impressive it does as well as it does. For me it is good enough for what I need but I can see the frustration it might cause others...

UPDATE: Did a very slow run with my daughter (6 yoa)... HRM picked up between 11-12 every minute except one in the middle where it only picked up 6. I did not really sweat and was wearing one of their nylon bands versus sports band. The nylon bands seem to slide a little more once I start sweating but I don't really want to wear leather or nylon when working out either.

 

[deeddawg]

That really puts it in perspective for me... pretty impressive it does as well as it does. For me it is good enough for what I need but I can see the frustration it might cause others...

UPDATE: Did a very slow run with my daughter (6 yoa)... HRM picked up between 11-12 every minute except one in the middle where it only picked up 6. I did not really sweat and was wearing one of their nylon bands versus sports band. The nylon bands seem to slide a little more once I start sweating but I don't really want to wear leather or nylon when working out either.

Glad I've helped in some manner.

As for HR and exercise, also be aware of "cardiac lag" - in a nutshell it's that one's heartrate will lag the effort expended. More info here: http://running.competitor.com/2013/12/training/3-common-heart-rate-training-mistakes_29427/3