S5 Pro vs. D200?

[Crawn2003]

Hello all,

I have a question for a friend of mine. He's also a photographer but he's been looking for an upgrade to his aging equipment. He's narrowed it down to a D200 or an S5 Pro from Fuji.

I'm partial to Nikon's D200 since I own one but I don't want to let that bias my opinion because I've only worked with a S3 Pro once or twice before.

Is there anyone that can help me in explaining to him the advantages/disadvantages of these two cameras so that he can make a good decision? Am I correct in saying that the S5 is based on the D2x series?

Thank you for any responses. I know he'll appreciate it.

~Crawn

P.S. Sorry Canon users, but he's got over $10,000 invested in Nikkor lenses so switching is entirely out of the picture for him. I think he'd kill himself if he ever had to switch just because of all the $$$ invested in those lenses! LOL!

 

[Lovesong]

The biggest problem with the Fuji camera is that it's only a 6MP "professional" model. Yes, I know the next poster will scream something about 6 MP of S sensors (which capture most of the picture), and the 6MP of R sensors that capture the fine details, but this does not produce a 12 MP image, no matter what way anyone wants to slice this. One thing about the Fuji, in using this sensor type, is that it has great dynamic range, and there is significantly less noise, than in the D200. On the other hand, the D200 has better AF, and is faster. The S5 is basically built around the D200 (not the D2), so it simply depends on what your friend shoots. If he is doing sports or wildlife, I'd suggest the 200. If he is into fine art, the dynamic range of the S5 might be more to his suiting.

 

[Crawn2003]

The biggest problem with the Fuji camera is that it's only a 6MP "professional" model. Yes, I know the next poster will scream something about 6 MP of S sensors (which capture most of the picture), and the 6MP of R sensors that capture the fine details, but this does not produce a 12 MP image, no matter what way anyone wants to slice this. One thing about the Fuji, in using this sensor type, is that it has great dynamic range, and there is significantly less noise, than in the D200. On the other hand, the D200 has better AF, and is faster. The S5 is basically built around the D200 (not the D2), so it simply depends on what your friend shoots. If he is doing sports or wildlife, I'd suggest the 200. If he is into fine art, the dynamic range of the S5 might be more to his suiting.

Unfortunately, he's into EVERYTHING! lol! Mostly still life, architecture, products on location that a 4x5 can't get into. I hire him from time to time to go and photograph the area I'm going to be working at (because my schedule is sometimes really backed up) so that I have an idea of what to expect.

I know from the S3 that it will probably be slow. I like the image quality on the S3 and images I've seen from the S5 but I just wonder if it justifies not getting the D200. It's something I mentioned to him but wanted to get input on it from everyone that's more knowledgeable about digital 35mm cameras.

~Crawn

 

[compuwar]

Hello all,

I have a question for a friend of mine. He's also a photographer but he's been looking for an upgrade to his aging equipment. He's narrowed it down to a D200 or an S5 Pro from Fuji.

S5Pro: Great Out-of-Camera files, especially JPEGs
Better dynamic range
Diffraction advantage from larger photosites
Better high-ISO

D200: Faster operation
Slightly better cropping, and 20x30 and above prints

Weddings, the S5 wins hands-down, sports, the D200 wins hands-down. You already have a D200, let him get the S5 so you can both trade when it's apparent one body isn't good for one type of shoot?

 

[Crawn2003]

S5Pro: Great Out-of-Camera files, especially JPEGs
Better dynamic range
Diffraction advantage from larger photosites
Better high-ISO

D200: Faster operation
Slightly better cropping, and 20x30 and above prints

Weddings, the S5 wins hands-down, sports, the D200 wins hands-down. You already have a D200, let him get the S5 so you can both trade when it's apparent one body isn't good for one type of shoot?

What? And risk my baby??? Lol! He loves my D200 but we both want to make sure he gets what he wants. I called him a little bit ago and I guess this store near us has an open box one that they said he could try out and buy at a discount. So I'll let you guys know what he decides!

Thanks again!

~Crawn

 

[Clix Pix]

FWIW, I have heard that the Fuji cameras are better for portraiture, etc., because they do well with skin tones and such. I have no personal experience with one, though. I do have the D200 and it is a wonderful camera.

 

[Abstract]

On the other hand, the D200 has better AF, and is faster.

I agree with your and compuwar's assessment of the S5 Pro, but how do you know this without having used it for 1 or 2 days?

Sorry, I'm only asking because I thought the camera was exactly the same, except the sensor itself. I thought AF and everything else was identical. Since the sensor is the only reason to buy the S5 Pro, I'm guessing interested consumers would have taken this into consideration already.

Thus, the only question with regards to the two cameras is whether they need to shoot at high fps, or whether they need the extra 4 MP, which would allow for prints that are ~30% longer in length than the Fuji when printing at 300 ppi. It's not THAT much.

Also, note that the S5 Pro can shoot at 3 fps in jpeg mode or RAW at normal dynamic range, but only shoots at max 1.6 fps when the dynamic range is ANYWHERE above normal dynamic range. The fps is only lower when the smaller "s" pixels are being used.


PS: If I had a choice, I'd get the Fuji S5 Pro. Actually, I'm looking into it. I don't need to shoot in continuous mode, and if I did, I can't imagine needing to use the higher dynamic range while doing so. I'd need the higher dynamic range more often than I'd need to shoot at higher fps. With digital, clouds always seem blown out. I'm quite sure it's not my technique (ie: exposure). I'm surprisingly in control of my DSLR, which I can't say about some of my friends. However, sometimes it's impossible to take a great shot where the subject is exposed well, but the cloud detail is kept and not blown out. Sometimes, I underexpose slightly on purpose to PP later, but really, I think that if I had this S5 Pro, I'd be golden.

 

[Westside guy]

However, sometimes it's impossible to take a great shot where the subject is exposed well, but the cloud detail is kept and not blown out. Sometimes, I underexpose slightly on purpose to PP later, but really, I think that if I had this S5 Pro, I'd be golden.

Have you considered trying a graduated neutral density filter?

 

[Abstract]

Yes, but it isn't going to help with the majority of photos, where a cloud with detail would look good. Actually, my clouds aren't usually completely blown out. However, there are times where a more detailed cloud would definitely add to the photo.

You can't really use an ND filter when shooting.....oh, I don't know....anything without a distinct horizontal line, really. For sunsets and landscape shots, I see what you mean, but it really doesn't do the job a lot of the time. That's why I'd like a Cokin ND filter rather than the typical ones, although I realize it wouldn't be effective in many situations.

 

[zoetropeuk]

The biggest problem with the Fuji camera is that it's only a 6MP "professional" model. Yes, I know the next poster will scream something about 6 MP of S sensors (which capture most of the picture), and the 6MP of R sensors that capture the fine details, but this does not produce a 12 MP image, no matter what way anyone wants to slice this. One thing about the Fuji, in using this sensor type, is that it has great dynamic range, and there is significantly less noise, than in the D200. On the other hand, the D200 has better AF, and is faster. The S5 is basically built around the D200 (not the D2), so it simply depends on what your friend shoots. If he is doing sports or wildlife, I'd suggest the 200. If he is into fine art, the dynamic range of the S5 might be more to his suiting.

But what Nikon or Nikon users don't tell you is that the D200 is NOT technically a 10mp camera in the true sense, just like the S5PRO isn't 12mp.

The D200 sensor captures 4mp blue, 3mp red and 3mp of green pixels in a bayer pattern. This info is the interpolated up to a 10mp RAW image. You also have to remember that the true resolution of a image interpolated from a bayer pattern sensor is only 70% of the final RAW image so in-fact the D200 when compared with the S5Pro is 7mp.

If you look at any reviews of the S5Pro that include a resolution chart you'll find the S5Pro is slightly over 9mp if you're using both the S and R images. Images shot at a 100%DR setting or above 1000ISO only use the S pixels making the images only 6mp.

As part of my job testing and measuring cameras I've owned or used pretty much every DSLR on the market for the past 3 years. Including an S2Pro, S3Pro, S5Pro, D80 and D200. At one point I had to choose between the S3Pro and D200 and I choose the S3Pro.

At the end of the day if image quality is the deciding factor then the S5Pro is noticeably better than the D200. And this is from someone that has shoot tens of thousands of images with both cameras.

As to the AF on the D200 being faster than the S5, that's complete bollocks as the AF system in the D200 and S5 are identical.

Matt

 

[Abstract]

But what Nikon or Nikon users don't tell you is that the D200 is NOT technically a 10mp camera in the true sense, just like the S5PRO isn't 12mp.

The D200 sensor captures 4mp blue, 3mp red and 3mp of green pixels in a bayer pattern. This info is the interpolated up to a 10mp RAW image. You also have to remember that the true resolution of a image interpolated from a bayer pattern sensor is only 70% of the final RAW image so in-fact the D200 when compared with the S5Pro is 7mp.

Well the S5 Pro also uses Bayer interpolation, like every DSLR other than the Sigma SD14. But that's like saying the Sigma SD14 has the highest resolution just because it has 14 MP, even if it happens to be spread over 3 layers. If you're talking about photosites that correspond to pixels on the screen, then even the S5 Pro has 6 MP, as the R and S pixels contribute to one single "reading".

As to the AF on the D200 being faster than the S5, that's complete bollocks as the AF system in the D200 and S5 are identical.

Matt

Well I didn't want to put it so bluntly, but I'm also quite sure they're identical, unless testing tells me that it's not true for a reason I can't even think of.

 

[Coheebuzz]

At the end of the day if image quality is the deciding factor then the S5Pro is noticeably better than the D200. And this is from someone that has shoot tens of thousands of images with both cameras.

As to the AF on the D200 being faster than the S5, that's complete bollocks as the AF system in the D200 and S5 are identical.
Matt

Totally agree with this, the S5 can reproduce a much wider range of tones than any Nikon or Canon i have experience with.

An example, we were shooting some bicycles in a studio last week for a website am doing and the client was using his S5. Me and a colleague were using a Canon 400D and D70 respectively. After the shooting i had to go through over 30 photos and remove the background or any imperfections, so i was able to see the difference in IQ on these cameras up close.

All 3 cameras produced similarly sharp images, although that's the lens more than the body. Colors and contrast again looked the same but that was again well controlled in the studio. The area that the S5 gave a beating to our cameras was when reproducing the chrome surfaces of the bikes - much much more info in the highlights and darks!! On images from the Canon and Nikon the slight increase of the exposure in PS would blow out the highlights. There was much more to do on the Fuji photos without going out of gamut!

Another thing that impressed me is that he was shooting at ISO400 were we both used ISO100. I was a bit worried that this would introduce noise and make my job in PP harder, but to my surprise the noise levels were identical!

I'll ask him for permission to post some photos here to see for yourself the difference in IQ.

Now about the AF speed, it didn't sound slow to me at all. Yes it sounded slower than my 400D with the 100mm f2.8 USM i had on but this is a wicked fast lens.

Hope i've helped.

 

[Westside guy]

You can't really use an ND filter when shooting.....oh, I don't know....anything without a distinct horizontal line, really. For sunsets and landscape shots, I see what you mean, but it really doesn't do the job a lot of the time. That's why I'd like a Cokin ND filter rather than the typical ones, although I realize it wouldn't be effective in many situations.

I believe the soft-transitions ND filters are specifically for those situations where you don't have a distinct horizontal line like a horizon. And the Cokin-style filters are definitely the way to go. I don't know why they even bother to make screw-in types.

I'm just barely starting to learn how to use them, and it's a slow go at first. Some people are apparently adept at hand-holding them, which speeds up the process (although I can't imagine doing that without the camera on a tripod and using a remote shutter release).

 

[Plymouthbreezer]

The S5 looks awesome (well, it is based on a great camera anyway...). If you have a D200 and he has Nikkor glass, why not get the S5 and, like other's have said, you'll have the two to trade off when each is needed.

 

[Kamera RAWr]

The S5 Pro does indeed look awesome. I actually was debating between the S5 Pro and D200 myself, but decided the D200 was more what I wanted. I've read as many reviews as I could find on it, most seemed quite positive. The dynamic range is supposed to be superb for a digital camera.

Where are the winning lottery tickets when you need them?

 

[CBRXX]

So far my experience with the fuji sensor has been in the studio where I got amazing results for B&W images but thats the only place Ive ever used the camera. Most of my work is landscape/cityscape and macro (all color) that will be printed ~20x24 (which im using just a D50 for now and Im limited to 11x14-16x20 at iso 200), so in my situation D200 or S5 pro?

 

[cube]

The S5 is very new in DxO, so there are a lot more lenses supported for the D200.

 

[techster85]

The S5 is very new in DxO, so there are a lot more lenses supported for the D200.

huh? i thought they supported the same lenses, or am i missing some info?

 

[Crawn2003]

huh? i thought they supported the same lenses, or am i missing some info?

They are the same, F-Mount Nikon lenses with support for the VR, etc. on the Fuji.

I wonder what he (cube) meant..

~Crawn

 

[cube]

huh? i thought they supported the same lenses, or am i missing some info?

I meant that DxO Optics Pro supports very few S5/lens combinations fully, while more are supported with the D200.

http://www.dxo.com/en/photo/dxo_optics_pro/cameras_lenses

 

[techster85]

okay so i'm reading through that company's (DxO) Web site...i don't get it...is it just an editing software that uses the lense and camera body info to help make the changes?

 

[compuwar]

okay so i'm reading through that company's (DxO) Web site...i don't get it...is it just an editing software that uses the lense and camera body info to help make the changes?

DxO, PTlens and Bibble contain specific lens information that allows them to correct distortion, chromatic aberration and vignetting for lenses they know about- including complex distortion like mustache distortion. It's especially good for ultra-wide angle lenses. I'm using Bibble with my Sigma 10-20mm.

 

[cube]

DxO is said to be more precise, plus it is also able to correct lens softness and volume anamorphosis.

 

[smitty330]

The biggest problem with the Fuji camera is that it's only a 6MP "professional" model. Yes, I know the next poster will scream something about 6 MP of S sensors (which capture most of the picture), and the 6MP of R sensors that capture the fine details, but this does not produce a 12 MP image, no matter what way anyone wants to slice this. One thing about the Fuji, in using this sensor type, is that it has great dynamic range, and there is significantly less noise, than in the D200. On the other hand, the D200 has better AF, and is faster. The S5 is basically built around the D200 (not the D2), so it simply depends on what your friend shoots. If he is doing sports or wildlife, I'd suggest the 200. If he is into fine art, the dynamic range of the S5 might be more to his suiting.

You are wrong my friend the s5 pro is 12 mp. quoted directy "it features 6.17 million 'S photodiodes' (normal DR) and 6.17 million 'R photodiodes' (highlight DR) for a total photodiode count of 12.34 million."

The other thing is... price! the body of the s5 pro alone is 2grand. You can get a D200 for around $900. So I would recommend that he compares the two cameras side by side and considers the price of each as well.

 

[Lovesong]

You are wrong my friend the s5 pro is 12 mp. quoted directy "it features 6.17 million 'S photodiodes' (normal DR) and 6.17 million 'R photodiodes' (highlight DR) for a total photodiode count of 12.34 million."

The other thing is... price! the body of the s5 pro alone is 2grand. You can get a D200 for around $900. So I would recommend that he compares the two cameras side by side and considers the price of each as well.

Here is your key word:

And here is one of the cheapest legit places to get the D200:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/407284-REG/Nikon_25235_D200_Digital_Camera_Camera.html
It's $1450 after rebates