Samsung Galaxy Fold

[Abazigal]

I agree...there has been so much negativity concerning the Fold...and some rightly so because of the issues it had at the beginning.
But I applaud Samsung for pushing the envelope so to speak to introduce new technology.
We all benefit from companies do this.....

The galaxy fold is to me the embodiment of everything that is wrong with Samsung.

Even with decades of experience building products and integrating hardware, software, and services, you can still decide to make a smartphone with a hardware keyboard, netbook, circular smartwatch, or a foldable phone. The reason why Apple has not made any of these, and instead created iPhone, iPad, Apple Watch, AirPods, and is now working of Glasses, is design.

Design is the magic ingredience, with Apple designers calling the shots, and searching for and having technology made to serve the product experience, not engineers excited about about new hot tech and trying to turn it into a product. Which is likely what happened here. Samsung had this cool folding screen technology that they probably felt that they had to turn into a useable product, else all that R&D would go down the drain. They rushed it out the door, to predictable results.

Apple Glasses vs. foldable phones is the latest example of Apple's design culture leading to an entirely different product than what engineering-led companies are doing.

There’s also the issue of how nobody at Samsung realised that the galaxy fold would be so easily damaged by dirt, something the reviewers took less than a day to discover. Either their product testing process was so fundamentally flawed, or nobody dared to report this to their superiors, or someone at the top decided to release it nevertheless. Either way, it doesn’t paint a flattering image of Samsung.

There’s nothing courageous about Samsung releasing said product. If anything, they are testament to the dysfunctional corporate culture in Samsung, and that is not something to be celebrated, IMO.

 

[TopherMan12]

Companies can be courageous and companies can be cowardice. Just because they are a company...doesn't mean their leaders cannot choose to make courageous/cowardly decisions that go on to represent the company as a whole. Sometimes companies make decisions that cost them money...but it is the right or moral thing to do. That would go against simple and common business practices.
Your statements are not as black and white as stated.

The context of the conversation was framed around innovations as either "courageous" or the lack of innovations as "cowardly". We are not talking about companies performing morally corrupt deeds. I think that should be clear but I guess I should have been more explicit.

But yes, you are correct. The true morals of a company are much bigger than whether or not they created a foldable phone. That is exactly the point being made. If you want to find examples of courage and cowardice then I suggest looking in places other than a folding piece of plastic that can make phone calls and take pictures.

 

[Klyster]

If you want to talk innovation, then by all means do so. But the words "courage" or "cowardice" has no place in the tech/biz spheres at all. This is pure and simple business. Nothing more.

Courage or cowardice, these are personal attributes and using them in context of mega-corporations is nothing more than fanboy fantasies. Samsung wants to make money. Just like Google. Just like Apple. Just like <insert corporation name here>.

Be clear. These are companies. Not heroes/villains.

Although I see your point of view, and agree with you, the reality is that the word courage does exist on the tech realm and has for a while.
Innovation lost its true meaning many years ago
I don't think I've seen cowardice used yet, and let's hope it stays that way.
But courage has been used so much that it's a meme, and totally not used in the traditional context.

 

[Klyster]

The galaxy fold is to me the embodiment of everything that is wrong with Samsung.

Even with decades of experience building products and integrating hardware, software, and services, you can still decide to make a smartphone with a hardware keyboard, netbook, circular smartwatch, or a foldable phone. The reason why Apple has not made any of these, and instead created iPhone, iPad, Apple Watch, AirPods, and is now working of Glasses, is design.

Design is the magic ingredience, with Apple designers calling the shots, and searching for and having technology made to serve the product experience, not engineers excited about about new hot tech and trying to turn it into a product. Which is likely what happened here. Samsung had this cool folding screen technology that they probably felt that they had to turn into a useable product, else all that R&D would go down the drain. They rushed it out the door, to predictable results.

Apple Glasses vs. foldable phones is the latest example of Apple's design culture leading to an entirely different product than what engineering-led companies are doing.

There’s also the issue of how nobody at Samsung realised that the galaxy fold would be so easily damaged by dirt, something the reviewers took less than a day to discover. Either their product testing process was so fundamentally flawed, or nobody dared to report this to their superiors, or someone at the top decided to release it nevertheless. Either way, it doesn’t paint a flattering image of Samsung.

There’s nothing courageous about Samsung releasing said product. If anything, they are testament to the dysfunctional corporate culture in Samsung, and that is not something to be celebrated, IMO.

Really?
Samsung pushed through with phablets, the world laughed, now there's hardly a phone that isnt a phablet.
And circular watch, really?
If the Apple watch was round, do you really think the success would be different?

It works both ways...

Apple released a keyboard with fundamental flaws, not just once, year after year, either their product testing process was so fundamentally flawed, or nobody dared to report this to their superiors, or someone at the top decided to release it nevertheless.
Louis Rossmann can fill you in on all the other built in flaws Apple are able to achieve.
Apple design has had a few monstrosities along the way imo.

 

[Abazigal]

Really?
Samsung pushed through with phablets, the world laughed, now there's hardly a phone that isnt a phablet.
And circular watch, really?
If the Apple watch was round, do you really think the success would be different?

It works both ways...

Apple released a keyboard with fundamental flaws, not just once, year after year, either their product testing process was so fundamentally flawed, or nobody dared to report this to their superiors, or someone at the top decided to release it nevertheless.
Louis Rossmann can fill you in on all the other built in flaws Apple are able to achieve.
Apple design has had a few monstrosities along the way imo.

The MacBook keyboard has a flaw which affects a small proportion of laptops in existence, and which is covered with AppleCare. Are you really equating this with a smartphone whose screen completely blacks out the moment someone nicks it with a fingernail?

My theory on why Samsung continues to stick with circular smartwatches is that the company invested too much in its rotating bezel to move beyond it and truly embrace a non-circular design. Moving past the rotating bezel would require Samsung to redo large portions of its smartwatch strategy and come up with something resembling Apple Watch's Digital Crown.

As for phablets, sure, it gave Samsung an early lead, but in some regards, Samsung peaked right before Apple unveiled larger iPhones. The company has not been able to find its footing since.

As for the galaxy fold, it’s a fundamentally-flawed product however I see it. This isn’t a smartphone that happens to unfold into a larger device. Instead, the Galaxy Fold is a small tablet that folds in half so that it can fit into your pocket. I fail to see how this constitutes a good user experience. It’s not clear why someone would want to carry a small tablet that folds into a suboptimal smartphone instead of just carrying a much better smartphone.

To me, foldable displays for smartphones seem to fit more in the bucket of edge screens and smartphone pens (design trends that have not caught on) versus large screens (a design trend that has become the default option).

It’s a gimmick through and through.

 

[Gilligan's last elephant]

The MacBook keyboard has a flaw which affects a small proportion of laptops in existence, and which is covered with AppleCare.

Manufacturers latent flaws should be covered by warranty, not an additional insurance scheme.

 

[Klyster]

@Abazigal

Apple changed the keyboard design on the macbook.

If it only affected a small proportion of users, they wouldn't bother changing it back to the old design, it was a major issue, many threads on this site explained why, Apple had no choice but to change it or lose valuable customers.

Samsung pulled the fold and addressed the issues and released it again, many people are game enough to try their gimmick, even after a disastrous initial release.

"As for the galaxy fold, it’s a fundamentally-flawed product however I see it. This isn’t a smartphone that happens to unfold into a larger device. Instead, the Galaxy Fold is a small tablet that folds in half so that it can fit into your pocket. I fail to see how this constitutes a good user experience. It’s not clear why someone would want to carry a small tablet that folds into a suboptimal smartphone instead of just carrying a much better smartphone."

Well that tells me there's no point discussing this with you if you cannot see why people would want one, surely you're not that obtuse?

 

[Phone Junky]

Well that tells me there's no point discussing this with you if you cannot see why people would want one, surely you're not that obtuse?

Wait until Apple makes one. He'll then tell you what a great idea it is. It's impossible for him to like or compliment anything made by anyone but Apple. Yet, here he is, in the "Alternative" forum to run a non-Apple product down.

 

[Tsepz]

https://www.xda-developers.com/samsung-galaxy-fold-1-million-units/

I was very skeptical on the 1 million number, glad it has now been clarified.

 

[TopherMan12]

Although I see your point of view, and agree with you, the reality is that the word courage does exist on the tech realm and has for a while.
Innovation lost its true meaning many years ago
I don't think I've seen cowardice used yet, and let's hope it stays that way.
But courage has been used so much that it's a meme, and totally not used in the traditional context.

Perhaps you could provide some examples of usage of the word "courage" as used in the mobile tech realm.

 

[jamezr]

The galaxy fold is to me the embodiment of everything that is wrong with Samsung.

Even with decades of experience building products and integrating hardware, software, and services, you can still decide to make a smartphone with a hardware keyboard, netbook, circular smartwatch, or a foldable phone. The reason why Apple has not made any of these, and instead created iPhone, iPad, Apple Watch, AirPods, and is now working of Glasses, is design.

Design is the magic ingredience, with Apple designers calling the shots, and searching for and having technology made to serve the product experience, not engineers excited about about new hot tech and trying to turn it into a product. Which is likely what happened here. Samsung had this cool folding screen technology that they probably felt that they had to turn into a useable product, else all that R&D would go down the drain. They rushed it out the door, to predictable results.

Apple Glasses vs. foldable phones is the latest example of Apple's design culture leading to an entirely different product than what engineering-led companies are doing.

There’s also the issue of how nobody at Samsung realised that the galaxy fold would be so easily damaged by dirt, something the reviewers took less than a day to discover. Either their product testing process was so fundamentally flawed, or nobody dared to report this to their superiors, or someone at the top decided to release it nevertheless. Either way, it doesn’t paint a flattering image of Samsung.

There’s nothing courageous about Samsung releasing said product. If anything, they are testament to the dysfunctional corporate culture in Samsung, and that is not something to be celebrated, IMO.

Agree with some your points disagree with most of your opinions.
Apple was a great design company but not so much anymore. They trickle features so as to not cannibalize sales of other products. Like the Macbook Pro...why no touchscreen? Do you think Apple doesn't have the technology prowess to make that happen? Oh they do...instead they appeased customers with a useless touchbar. Just so they would cannibalize iPad sales. Butterfly keyboards....Apple designed a very defective keyboard and just refused to fix it until this year. While other companies have had the same fix in place for years.
So I disagree with you on Apple just designs everything better. Apple products have evolved over the years...they weren't great products the first time. Just like the Fold wasn't so great the first evolution of the product...but it is evolving too.
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The context of the conversation was framed around innovations as either "courageous" or the lack of innovations as "cowardly". We are not talking about companies performing morally corrupt deeds. I think that should be clear but I guess I should have been more explicit.

But yes, you are correct. The true morals of a company are much bigger than whether or not they created a foldable phone. That is exactly the point being made. If you want to find examples of courage and cowardice then I suggest looking in places other than a folding piece of plastic that can make phone calls and take pictures.

That is your opinion and we differ. Companies can choose to take the safe road and produce mediocre products. Or they can be courageous and take a step out of mediocrity and choose to do something different and push the boundaries. So yes companies can choose to be courageous with innovation and produce products that push the envelope so to speak. Products that might evolutionary in design like the Fold. So yes...i think producing something like a first run folding phone is courageous.

 

[noobinator]

No company acts courageous to be different or try new things. They do it because they think it will increase profits.

 

[TopherMan12]

Agree with some your points disagree with most of your opinions.
Apple was a great design company but not so much anymore. They trickle features so as to not cannibalize sales of other products. Like the Macbook Pro...why no touchscreen? Do you think Apple doesn't have the technology prowess to make that happen? Oh they do...instead they appeased customers with a useless touchbar. Just so they would cannibalize iPad sales.

2-in-1 laptops are fine as laptops. They suck as tablets. That is why Apple isn't bringing out touchscreen MacBooks. It is just a confused and horrible design. Macbooks without touchscreen isn't about iPad sales. And why would Apple care either way? They are selling an Apple product either way. But that isn't the reasons behind it at all.

I agree on your take regarding the butterfly keyboards. That was just bad and Apple's rep took a rightful hit for it.

That is your opinion and we differ. Companies can choose to take the safe road and produce mediocre products. Or they can be courageous and take a step out of mediocrity and choose to do something different and push the boundaries. So yes companies can choose to be courageous with innovation and produce products that push the envelope so to speak. Products that might evolutionary in design like the Fold. So yes...i think producing something like a first run folding phone is courageous.

Did Samsung bet their company on the Samsung Fold? No, of course not. Samsung created an innovative product. No more. No less. If something is to be considered as courageous then there has to have been the possibility for an exceptional amount of loss. The potential loss for Samsung if Fold failed was minimal at best. So no, the releasing of a folding phone was not a courageous act.

Was the butterfly keyboard an act of courage on Apple's part?

No company acts courageous to be different or try new things. They do it because they think it will increase profits.

Which makes it not really courageous at all.

 

[jamezr]

2-in-1 laptops are fine as laptops. They suck as tablets. That is why Apple isn't bringing out touchscreen MacBooks. It is just a confused and horrible design. Macbooks without touchscreen isn't about iPad sales. And why would Apple care either way? They are selling an Apple product either way. But that isn't the reasons behind it at all.

I agree on your take regarding the butterfly keyboards. That was just bad and Apple's rep took a rightful hit for it.



Did Samsung bet their company on the Samsung Fold? No, of course not. Samsung created an innovative product. No more. No less. If something is to be considered as courageous then there has to have been the possibility for an exceptional amount of loss. The potential loss for Samsung if Fold failed was minimal at best. So no, the releasing of a folding phone was not a courageous act.

Was the butterfly keyboard an act of courage on Apple's part?

Who said all touchscreen laptops have to be 2-in1 convertibles? Apple doesn't not want to cannibalize iPad sales that is the main reason...otherwise why do the touch bar at all? That was their compromise for a touchscreen laptop...a touch bar lol. While the rest of the market has touchscreen laptops...Apple wants their customers to buy a laptop and an iPad.

2-in-1 laptops are fine as laptops. They suck as tablets. That is why Apple isn't bringing out touchscreen MacBooks.

No one said Samsung bet the company on the Fold...But the R&D and cost of production alone must have been enormous. The manufacturing cost alone must be staggering. So yes....to make a brand new not been done before product has enormous costs involved. Just the re-tooling of the manufacturing machines and all the dry runs and first failures alone probably ran in the millions. The ROI is years away at best.
So the potential loss of revenue is quite large if the Fold fails and they never make another one.

So it does take a courageous company with foresight to make a new product category with an eye to the future...the cost is enormous and the potential for failure as well.

 

[TopherMan12]

Who said all touchscreen laptops have to be 2-in1 convertibles? Apple doesn't not want to cannibalize iPad sales that is the main reason...otherwise why do the touch bar at all? That was their compromise for a touchscreen laptop...a touch bar lol. While the rest of the market has touchscreen laptops...Apple wants their customers to buy a laptop and an iPad.

So a laptop with a touch screen that cannot perform as a tablet is going to take away sales from a tablet? lol...come on. There isn't any point in discussing this anymore.

No one said Samsung bet the company on the Fold...But the R&D and cost of production alone must have been enormous. The manufacturing cost alone must be staggering. So yes....to make a brand new not been done before product has enormous costs involved. Just the re-tooling of the manufacturing machines and all the dry runs and first failures alone probably ran in the millions. The ROI is years away at best.
So the potential loss of revenue is quite large if the Fold fails and they never make another one.

So it does take a courageous company with foresight to make a new product category with an eye to the future...the cost is enormous and the potential for failure as well.

If you want to believe that then fine. Samsung takes calculated risks just like other tech companies. I just see no reason to selectively overstate innovations into some grand lofty corporation worship. To each their own.

 

[Shanghaichica]

Perhaps you could provide some examples of usage of the word "courage" as used in the mobile tech realm.

Removing the headphone jack from the iPhone 7.

 

[Klyster]

Perhaps you could provide some examples of usage of the word "courage" as used in the mobile tech realm.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.th...-iphone-7-plus-headphone-jack-removal-courage

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.slashgear.com/razer-phone-review-real-mobile-courage-22511642/amp/


https://www.fastcompany.com/90279521/samsung-finds-the-courage-to-remove-the-headphone-jack-too

That was a 30 second google search, I'm not putting any effort into this.

 

[jamezr]

So a laptop with a touch screen that cannot perform as a tablet is going to take away sales from a tablet? lol...come on. There isn't any point in discussing this anymore.



If you want to believe that then fine. Samsung takes calculated risks just like other tech companies. I just see no reason to selectively overstate innovations into some grand lofty corporation worship. To each their own.

Yes it will take sales away from the laptop line...why else would they not release a touchscreen laptop? they already have the touch bar so they are almost there.....
Apple customers have been requesting a touchscreen laptop for years.....Apple appeased them with the touch bar...I mean why else would they just not go full touch screen? Do you think they don't have the capability? C'mom man.....

The perfect Apple customer has a iMac......laptop....ipad...apple watch...iPhone and ATV.
Apple is a very intelligent well thought out and planned company with an eye to its extremely valuable brand name.
Take AOD (Always on Display) for example....Apple doesn't want to have AOD on an iPhone. Then you could glance at your phone and see the time and date. They would rather you buy an apple watch instead. Perfect example of withholding a feature from one product to get you to buy another one.....same with touchscreen apple laptops. They would rather you leave your laptop at your desk and surf the web on the sofa with an ipad....


Also...yes Samsung takes calculated risks...just like every other company. No one is overstating what they are doing with folding phone/tablets. If it were just a calculated risk then based on the first Fold model that was released...they would scrap the whole product line. It was quite the media failure now wasn't it!

Then just to be clear......I am an Apple fan. I have a house full of Apple products and will continue to buy them. I have bought every iPhone since the first one. So there is no corporate worship of Samsung going on here....

 

[TopherMan12]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.th...-iphone-7-plus-headphone-jack-removal-courage

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.slashgear.com/razer-phone-review-real-mobile-courage-22511642/amp/


https://www.fastcompany.com/90279521/samsung-finds-the-courage-to-remove-the-headphone-jack-too

That was a 30 second google search, I'm not putting any effort into this.

So you've got one corporation calling themselves courageous. The second one is explained as being courageous for being "traditional", not innovative.

"I put “courage” in the title of this review because of the surprisingly traditional approach Razer has taken with the industrial design of this smartphone. At a time when the biggest smartphone brands in the world are employing displays that cascade over edges, have curved corners, and come in all sorts of odd shapes, the Razer Phone’s display is decidedly traditionally rectangular. "

And the third is used mocking Apple.

Kind of hammers the point home that using the word courageous is silly in this context. But I guess that is to your point that the usage in modern media isn't really relevant to its definition. Seems like it is hyperbole where ever it is used.

Yes it will take sales away from the laptop line...why else would they not release a touchscreen laptop? they already have the touch bar so they are almost there.....
Apple customers have been requesting a touchscreen laptop for years.....Apple appeased them with the touch bar...I mean why else would they just not go full touch screen? Do you think they don't have the capability? C'mom man.....

I never said they couldn't do it. I simply stated that worrying about siphoning sales away from iPad isn't the reason. I don't think we have anymore to discuss as this seems to be going down a rabbit hole far away from the topic.

 

[Klyster]

So if a company calls themselves courageous then it must be so. Got it.



So you've got one corporation calling themselves courageous. The second one is explained as being courageous for being "traditional"

"I put “courage” in the title of this review because of the surprisingly traditional approach Razer has taken with the industrial design of this smartphone. At a time when the biggest smartphone brands in the world are employing displays that cascade over edges, have curved corners, and come in all sorts of odd shapes, the Razer Phone’s display is decidedly traditionally rectangular. "

And the third is mocking Apple calling themself courage.

Seriously?



I never said they couldn't do it. I simply stated that worrying about siphoning sales away from iPad isn't the reason. The rest of your post is all over the place. I think we are done.

All my point was, is that the term "courage" has been used in the tech sphere for a few years now, not that it has been used correctly.
I agree that it misused, you asked me to show it being used and I did.

Perhaps you could provide some examples of usage of the word "courage" as used in the mobile tech realm.

The first examples took me less than a minute to find, copy and paste into a reply, seriously.

 

[TopherMan12]

I agree that it misused, you asked me to show it being used and I did.

These references are still a bit obscure and they still reek of hyperbole, but you did what I asked and I appreciate it. Yes, quite misused. Both by the media and forum members here, imo.

 

[jamezr]

I never said they couldn't do it. I simply stated that worrying about siphoning sales away from iPad isn't the reason. I don't think we have anymore to discuss as this seems to be going down a rabbit hole far away from the topic.

So what is the reason then? They obviously have the tech know how......
Why not give the customers what they want? Go on speculate...be courageous

 

[TopherMan12]

So what is the reason then? They obviously have the tech know how......
Why not give the customers what they want? Go on speculate...be courageous

What basis do you have for saying Apple customers want touch screen Macs?

 

[jamezr]

What basis do you have for saying Apple customers want touch screen Macs?

reading the forums here at MR and other forums...what basis would you have for them not to want the latest technology features?

 

[TopherMan12]

reading the forums here at MR and other forums...what basis would you have for them not to want the latest technology features?

I don't know that most do or do not prefer touchscreen. I haven't made any such claims, now have I? Your anecdotal experience on forums is meaningless. So....you have nothing.

I know that, to me, I would rather have devices that do their job individually and do it well. Thus, my Lenovo Yoga C940 isn't used as a tablet. My iPad is. But that is just me.