Samsung Nvme and super slow Boot on Monterey

[woefi]

Hmn, I recently purchased a 1TB 970 EVO plus and it has 3B2QEXM7 on it...
So far no problems booting Monterey. Even full hibernate (incl. pulling cable) works

Model name: MZ-V7S1T0, prod.date:2021.09

looking again, the PN is MZVL21T0HBLU, which would be Elpis

 

[niho]

Hmn, I recently purchased a 1TB 970 EVO plus and it has 3B2QEXM7 on it...
So far no problems booting Monterey. Even full hibernate (incl. pulling cable) works

Model name: MZ-V7S1T0, prod.date:2021.09

looking again, the PN is MZVL21T0HBLU, which would be Elpis

On fresh install, it's fine, but in time it gets worse as more deleted files needs to be trimmed and it's not working properly.
If you wanna try, fill the ssd with garbage completely and delete the files.

 

[macsoundsolutions]

There is a new version of the EVO 970 Plus Firmware available. The previous version was firmware version 2B2QEXM7, the new version is 4B2QEXM7. Unfortunately, I've been unable to confirm what the firmware does as Samsung does not provide release notes. However, when I tried to update the firmware, it reports that no compatible firmware was found.
I believe that might be because this version of the firmware is intended for the Elpis controller which is used in the 980 rather than the original Phoenix controller.

It is likely that this firmware will limit the write performance problems observed with the new Elpis, which drop drastically when the Intelligent TurboWrite cache is full. Samsung made this change of controller in the specifications of the SSD 970 EVO Plus to resolve production difficulties probably linked to the global pandemic.

It may also be simpler and more cost effective to produce only one controller for the 970 EVO Plus and 980 PRO instead of two.

The firmware for the remaining EVO 970 editions has not been updated yet.

So I guess we have to put up with the slow boot speeds and goodness knows what other general instability for a little while longer or do what others have done and changed NVME SSDs to another manufacturer.

I tried to install the new firmware 4B2QEXM7 today via Windows with Samsung Magician, I was surprised it even showed up connected via my Titan Ridge in an OWC thunderbolt 3 ecnlosure and its formated in APFS. It said the firmware is up to date version 2B2QEXM7. I have had a lot of issues with the drive running Big Sur. I formated it and created 2 partitions one 500 gig for mac OS Big Sur and the other 1.5 terabyte for scratch disk installed in a single M2 pcie card. But Mac OS has not been stable, boot time is normal, but sometimes the finder just disappears and Pro Tools just locks up when I hit play on a session. I am wondering if the partitions is what my problem is as others seem to use the 970 plus as boot drives. When I use the scratch partition and run my OS off my other drive I have no issues, its just when the OS is running off the 970 plus that things are not working as they should.

 

[star-affinity]

I tried to install the new firmware 4B2QEXM7 today via Windows with Samsung Magician, I was surprised it even showed up connected via my Titan Ridge in an OWC thunderbolt 3 ecnlosure and its formated in APFS. It said the firmware is up to date version 2B2QEXM7. I have had a lot of issues with the drive running Big Sur. I formated it and created 2 partitions one 500 gig for mac OS Big Sur and the other 1.5 terabyte for scratch disk installed in a single M2 pcie card. But Mac OS has not been stable, boot time is normal, but sometimes the finder just disappears and Pro Tools just locks up when I hit play on a session. I am wondering if the partitions is what my problem is as others seem to use the 970 plus as boot drives. When I use the scratch partition and run my OS off my other drive I have no issues, its just when the OS is running off the 970 plus that things are not working as they should.

How is it again – can you do the firmware update without erasing the drive? Will it be recognized in Samsung Magician in Windows even if the drive is APFS formatted with MacOS installed on it? Don't remember – it was so long ago I did a firmware update in Samsung Magician.

But strange if it says it's up to date for you even if you're on 2B2QEXM7 (like me) if 4B2QEXM7 is available. Hmm…

 

[mi7chy]

But strange if it says it's up to date for you even if you're on 2B2QEXM7 (like me) if 4B2QEXM7 is available. Hmm…

Firmware update is only for the new hardware revision. Easy way to tell is looking at the packaging that it came in. Left (horizontal) is older while right (vertical) is newer revision. I have the older (horizontal) and it doesn't update the firmware either.

 

[Fastsavage]

Firmware update is only for the new hardware revision. Easy way to tell is looking at the packaging that it came in. Left (horizontal) is older while right (vertical) is newer revision. I have the older (horizontal) and it doesn't update the firmware either.

Not true as i have the vertical box and I won't update the firmware - mine has the Phoenix controller, I understand the 4xxxxx firmware is for the Elpis controller. I did see a report where it said the 4xxxxx firmware was for some versions with issues.

It would also seem that different countries get slightly different models / versions of the 970 evo Plus

BTW I have very slow boots as well, gets stuck here.

 

[star-affinity]

Hmm… can’t check for the firmware update in Samsung Magician with the drive in my PCIe enclosure for it - says ”The drive is not supported”. I remember I removed the drive and put it in a friend's PC motherboard with a built-in NVME slot and running the firmware update from a USB stick.

I wonder if it's worth doing all this just to find out the firmware wont be updated any further.
Seems maybe not if this still stands: https://us.community.samsung.com/t5...-Plus-1TB-NVMe-firmware-4B2QEXM7/td-p/2123002

Would also be interesting to know if this same thing would happen on a newer and support Mac Pro. I mean if the boot time is slow there too maybe we'll see a fix from Apple and/or Samsung. One can only hope. And I guess someone has to report it and provide a sysdiagnose to Apple.

Edit:

Hmm... I now updated my installation of Samsung Magician to the current version and now it says the latest version of the firmware is 2B2QEXM7 and that's what I'm running. 🤷‍♂️

 

[woefi]

Today I finally managed to put a windows 10 installation on a USB drive via rufus (unbelievable that by default, windows is not able to install to a usb storage device...)
Now I was able to run Samsung Magician on my iMac2019 with internal 970 EVO plus (3B2QEXM7).

As I already knew, this is the newer (elpis) revision and Magician correctly indicated an update to 4B2QEXM7 which finished successfully.

I will now try to fill the drive with old data and delete it again to test whether I find any difference...

 

[star-affinity]

Today I finally managed to put a windows 10 installation on a USB drive via rufus (unbelievable that by default, windows is not able to install to a usb storage device...)
Now I was able to run Samsung Magician on my iMac2019 with internal 970 EVO plus (3B2QEXM7).

As I already knew, this is the newer (elpis) revision and Magician correctly indicated an update to 4B2QEXM7 which finished successfully.

I will now try to fill the drive with old data and delete it again to test whether I find any difference...

May I ask which version of Samsung Magician you have? I have 7.0.1. Seems some 970 EVO can't get later than version 2 of the firmware. ?‍♂️

 

[woefi]

which version of Samsung Magician you have?

I also used 7.0.1, which should be the latest version at this time.

But I think it should be clear already that the models with version 1 or 2 have different hardware than version 3. Only version 3 can be updated to 4 as this update corrects f/w errors specifically on this hardware (elpis).

The Magician app just sees "model 970 evo plus" and indicates an update, but the firmware tool checks the actual hardware and correctly refuses to update the wrong h/w.

 

[star-affinity]

I also used 7.0.1, which should be the latest version at this time.

But I think it should be clear already that the models with version 1 or 2 have different hardware than version 3. Only version 3 can be updated to 4 as this update corrects f/w errors specifically on this hardware (elpis).

The Magician app just sees "model 970 evo plus" and indicates an update, but the firmware tool checks the actual hardware and correctly refuses to update the wrong h/w.

Good to have that conclusion.
Because it's not very clear here: https://semiconductor.samsung.com/consumer-storage/support/tools/

There under ”Firmware” one just sees 970 EVO Plus listed and that the latest firmware for 970 EVO Plus is 4B2QEXM7.

 

[Hpopencoreuser]

I solved issue with setting SetApfsTrimTimeout to 0 in opencore config.plist.
New boot time is 20 seconds.

 

[star-affinity]

I solved issue with setting SetApfsTrimTimeout to 0 in opencore config.plist.
New boot time is 20 seconds.

Any downside to changing that you think?
TRIM will still be enabled?

 

[inarush]

Any downside to changing that you think?
TRIM will still be enabled?

I solved issue with setting SetApfsTrimTimeout to 0 in opencore config.plist.
New boot time is 20 seconds.

Setting SetApfsTrimTimeout to 0 actually prevents macOS from running TRIM. This is why boot times are shorter under that setting.

 

[star-affinity]

Setting SetApfsTrimTimeout to 0 actually prevents macOS from running TRIM. This is why boot times are shorter under that setting.

OK, that's not very good. Would it be possible to lower the SetApfsTrimTimeout value from the value set as default and get both faster boot time and TRIM enabled? ?

 

[inarush]

OK, that's not very good. Would it be possible to lower the SetApfsTrimTimeout value from the value set as default and get both faster boot time and TRIM enabled? ?

My understanding is that you either disable it to get normal boot times or enable it and experience much slower times. The bug seems to be in the TRIM implementation by Samsung, so whenever it's on Monterey will take a long time to boot.

Why does that happen only on Monterey? That I don't know.

 

[star-affinity]

Hmm... I have the SetApfsTrimTimeout value set to 0 now and at least it still says ”TRIM Support: Yes” for my MacOS drive in System Information. ?‍♂️

 

[inarush]

Hmm... I have the SetApfsTrimTimeout value set to 0 now and at least it still says ”TRIM Support: Yes” for my MacOS drive in System Information. ?‍♂️

Well, your drive still supports it. Doesn't mean the OS will necessarily enable it though.
(in this case it obviously won't because SetApfsTrimTimeout=0)

 

[turbineseaplane]

This TRIM issue with Samsung drives is why I ultimately went with a WD Black NVMe drive

Really fast boot times and TRIM fully enabled

 

[star-affinity]

Well, your drive still supports it. Doesn't mean the OS will necessarily enable it though.
(in this case it obviously won't because SetApfsTrimTimeout=0)

So there's no substance to this from a Reddit comment?

• Trim is autoenabled by the os on nvmes, no way to change that and there is no need to

https://www.reddit.com/r/hackintosh/comments/etadvy

 

[godzfire]

Watching this thread because I bought a 1TB 970 Evo Plus back in Nov 2020 not knowing any of these issues specific to Samsung and this exact model, regarding to the incompatibilities and transfer speed issues with macOS and especially Monterey. Trying to update my firmware via Mac boot USB firmware updater doesn't work. In Parallels booting the same USB drive updater does work but says there's no drive/drive to update. I believe mine came in the old (left) box by the way.

Incredibly frustrating.

Samsung SSD 970 EVO Plus 1TB:
Capacity: 1 TB (1,000,204,886,016 bytes)
TRIM Support: Yes
Model: Samsung SSD 970 EVO Plus 1TB
Revision: 2B2QEXM7
Serial Number: S59ANMFN909743P

 

[macsoundsolutions]

Watching this thread because I bought a 1TB 970 Evo Plus back in Nov 2020 not knowing any of these issues specific to Samsung and this exact model, regarding to the incompatibilities and transfer speed issues with macOS and especially Monterey. Trying to update my firmware via Mac boot USB firmware updater doesn't work. In Parallels booting the same USB drive updater does work but says there's no drive/drive to update. I believe mine came in the old (left) box by the way.

Incredibly frustrating.

Samsung SSD 970 EVO Plus 1TB:
Capacity: 1 TB (1,000,204,886,016 bytes)
TRIM Support: Yes
Model: Samsung SSD 970 EVO Plus 1TB
Revision: 2B2QEXM7
Serial Number: S59ANMFN909743P

I've been using my 2T for a few months now without issue, boot times are normal about 20 seconds after boot chime with Monterey 12.3.1 I tried to update the firmware in Windows using the samsung app but it said there was no update available. I have seen reports of slow boot times but so far so good. Getting around 1350 write and 1500 read. I partitioned it 500 gigs for Mac OS and Data and 1.5T for scratch disk.

Capacity: 2 TB (2,000,398,934,016 bytes)
TRIM Support: Yes
Model: Samsung SSD 970 EVO Plus 2TB
Revision: 2B2QEXM7
Serial Number: S59CNM0R907180H
Link Width: x4
Link Speed: 5.0 GT/s
Detachable Drive: No
BSD Name: disk4
Partition Map Type: GPT (GUID Partition Table)
Removable Media: No
S.M.A.R.T. status: Verified
Volumes:
EFI:
Capacity: 209.7 MB (209,715,200 bytes)
File System: MS-DOS FAT32
BSD Name: disk4s1
Content: EFI
Volume UUID: 0E239BC6-F960-3107-89CF-1C97F78BB46B
disk4s2:
Capacity: 500.07 GB (500,072,189,952 bytes)
BSD Name: disk4s2
Content: Apple_APFS
disk4s3:
Capacity: 1.5 TB (1,500,116,987,904 bytes)
BSD Name: disk4s3
Content: Apple_APFS

 

[jgleigh]

Had to update OC and change SetApfsTrimTimeout to 0, but now my boots are very fast. Actually faster than before with Big Sur.

 

[godzfire]

I've been using my 2T for a few months now without issue, boot times are normal about 20 seconds after boot chime with Monterey 12.3.1 I tried to update the firmware in Windows using the samsung app but it said there was no update available. I have seen reports of slow boot times but so far so good. Getting around 1350 write and 1500 read. I partitioned it 500 gigs for Mac OS and Data and 1.5T for scratch disk.

Capacity: 2 TB (2,000,398,934,016 bytes)
TRIM Support: Yes
Model: Samsung SSD 970 EVO Plus 2TB
Revision: 2B2QEXM7
Serial Number: S59CNM0R907180H

Unless you are using the OWC Envoy Express TB3 case which has caps at those speeds, you are only getting only just over half of what the write/read speeds should be on the 970 EVO Plus with other TB3 cases or internally, or with a Windows machine.

 

[tomscott1988]

Has anyone got an update to a solution with this?

Im running an external Samsung X5 on my 2017 5K iMac and the boot time is running into minutes with Mojave.

I have put up with it for months thinking its best to format and start again but then I thought I would give it a google and found a lot of threads of slow Samsung NVME drives with Mojave

I don't really want to crack open the iMac which is why the X5 is a great device. Also no idea how to update the firmware on this, I downloaded the Samsung Portable SSD app and there is no option to update the firmware. Its says the current is 1P3QEXE7_00

Once im in its pretty good im getting 1600mb writes and 2300mb reads the boot is just driving me mad!

Capacity: 500.11 GB (500,107,862,016 bytes)
TRIM Support: Yes
Model: Samsung Portable SSD X5
Revision: 1P3QEXE7
Serial Number: X
Link Width: x4
Link Speed: 8.0 GT/s
Detachable Drive: No
BSD Name: disk1
Partition Map Type: GPT (GUID Partition Table)
Removable Media: No
SMART status: Verified
Volumes:
EFI:
Capacity: 314.6 MB (314,572,800 bytes)
File System: MS-DOS FAT32
BSD Name: disk1s1
Content: EFI
Volume UUID: X
disk1s2:
Capacity: 499.79 GB (499,793,244,160 bytes)
BSD Name: disk1s2
Content: Apple_APFS